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Fossil Fuel Fraud


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We do have enough energy in North America to become self sufficient if we want, it is a question of how that can be done when any new energy infrastructure is being blocked like the Keystone pipeline. They blocked drilling for more oil in Alaska, apparently they don't want us to keep our money in our countries and instead rely on foreign oil. That money ends up in the hands of terrorists just like in the movies.

 

Saudi Arabia has threatened to bankrupt many US companies and Canadian companies yet this gets no  press. Canada is as powerful as Saudi Arabia yet doesn't use that strength to its advantage. Most people don't realize how much oil Canada has in the oil sands, but it is expensive to extract.

 

Fracking has allowed for much higher extraction and has increased production enough to where we had a bust cycle on natural gas. That is also now happening with oil as well. Allowing something as important as our energy future to be decided by lawsuits by environmental groups is insanity, yet it is how every industry now seems to operate. Look at the mess with the drought in California, they have to release water for environmental reasons even though they are down to 30% storage or less. They better hope it rains next Winter or they will be down to bottled water and one toilet flush a day.

 

 

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If anyone here has actually ever driven by a wind farm imagine being an endangered specie like a hawk and trying to survive flying through that.

 

How many birds are killed each year by wind turbines?

 

One report said that 573,000 birds and 888,000 bats were being killed each year by wind turbines, more than 30 percent higher than federal government estimates. Many of these birds were protected by federal laws, including the Migratory Bird Act and the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act.
 
Why haven't these farms been shut down? With all of our technology you mean they can't build turbines that don't kill birds?
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If anyone here has actually ever driven by a wind farm imagine being an endangered specie like a hawk and trying to survive flying through that.

 

How many birds are killed each year by wind turbines?

 

One report said that 573,000 birds and 888,000 bats were being killed each year by wind turbines, more than 30 percent higher than federal government estimates. Many of these birds were protected by federal laws, including the Migratory Bird Act and the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act.
 
Why haven't these farms been shut down? With all of our technology you mean they can't build turbines that don't kill birds?

 

wind farms and their turbines are politically correct and therefore cannot be criticized or found fault with. the left wants everyone to think energy independence and or down with fossil fuel everytime we see one, therefore, since wind farms are a liberal contrivance it is quite impossible for birds and bats to be killed by them...

 

it just ain't happening. :huh:

 

even if it is it ain't. :lol: 

 

"if you say I fly and I say I fly then I fly." -Richard Burton, nineteen eighty-four :D

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wind farms and their turbines are politically correct and therefore cannot be criticized or found fault with. the left wants everyone to think energy independence and or down with fossil fuel everytime we see one, therefore, since wind farms are a liberal contrivance it is quite impossible for birds and bats to be killed by them...

 

it just ain't happening. :huh:

 

even if it is it ain't. :lol: 

 

"if you say I fly and I say I fly then I fly." -Richard Burton, nineteen eighty-four :D

 

Your off (as well as wrong)  as usual;    Environmental groups (which are all liberal borderline commies right!),  have complained about wind farms in the desert of CA.      Talking about birds;  your POV went out with the dodo.      :D

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Your off (as well as wrong)  as usual;    Environmental groups (which are all liberal borderline commies right!),  have complained about wind farms in the desert of CA.      Talking about birds;  your POV went out with the dodo.      :D

still, my reference to Burton's dialogue from nineteen eighty-four is quite clever. :D

 

my real reason for opposing wind farms is that wind is supposed to replace oil which lubricate electric dynamos which power our cities?

 

the truth is that we could not have had 20th century industries without a corporate big business structure and it's associated hierarchies and progressives hate that so much they are quite willing to arbitrarily consign humankind back to the stone age.

 

big business is therefore a necessary evil. you got something to sell or build, you just can't do it in a vacuum anymore than algore can jet down to Antarctica solely on the propellant power of his own hot air.

 

I give credit to liberalism for the condition of our earth being brought front and center but liberals refuse to talk about honest differences of opinion reasonably without calling the opposition earth killers. okay we have climate change. so whatta we do? buy electric cars? how about the feds giving them to us for free?...

 

SAVE THE PLANET! :) 

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Look like the luckiest country in the world is Iceland.  Geothermal, hydro and wind.  Plus they told the globalist  (and anyone else) to go shove it! 

 

iceland-geothermal-power-plant-1.jpg

 

wind-power-turbines-blades-moving.jpg

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

 

 

Karta%202.jpg

 

GeothermalFields-in-Iceland-Map-Ketilsso

 

 

 

 

 

A bonus - the people get a FREE hot tub. Those lucky devils.   :D

 

326c96a.jpg

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We do have enough energy in North America to become self sufficient if we want, it is a question of how that can be done when any new energy infrastructure is being blocked like the Keystone pipeline. They blocked drilling for more oil in Alaska, apparently they don't want us to keep our money in our countries and instead rely on foreign oil. That money ends up in the hands of terrorists just like in the movies.

 

Saudi Arabia has threatened to bankrupt many US companies and Canadian companies yet this gets no  press. Canada is as powerful as Saudi Arabia yet doesn't use that strength to its advantage. Most people don't realize how much oil Canada has in the oil sands, but it is expensive to extract.

 

Fracking has allowed for much higher extraction and has increased production enough to where we had a bust cycle on natural gas. That is also now happening with oil as well. Allowing something as important as our energy future to be decided by lawsuits by environmental groups is insanity, yet it is how every industry now seems to operate. Look at the mess with the drought in California, they have to release water for environmental reasons even though they are down to 30% storage or less. They better hope it rains next Winter or they will be down to bottled water and one toilet flush a day.

Well said.

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still, my reference to Burton's dialogue from nineteen eighty-four is quite clever :D


 


Good thing you pointed that out, apparently your smiley is the only one who laughed.


 


MovieMadness said: Allowing something as important as our energy future to be decided by lawsuits by environmental groups is insanity, yet it is how every industry now seems to operate.


 


The problem as I see it is we need to change our dependence from oil to other types of energy. Oil is so "last century", we need to wean ourselves off it and rebuild on another platform-one we can sustain for ourselves.


 


And the big reason "environmental groups" are involved is a direct result of big industry allowed to pollute public land, air & water in the past. We now have laws to protect our land, air & water, why not enforce it? 


 


Look at the mess with the drought in California


 


I have often predicted water will be our most precious resource, more important than oil. 


 


There is a reason some areas are called "deserts" and only the very hardiest lived there. Attempt to make "the desert" into Pennsylvania is just the craziest idea.

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I have often predicted water will be our most precious resource, more important than oil. 

 

Far more important. We can't live without it.

 

Oil will always have its industrial uses, but as an energy source it's days are numbered. Solar has the potential to provide more power than we can ever use - it's just a matter of inventing more methods of conversion, storage and hard-goods applications.

 

The fossil fuel industry has deliberately slowed the progress toward alternative energy - aided and abetted by the lawyers, politicians, judges, they own - but alternatives will overtake fossil fuel energy, just as long as we're not knocked back centuries as a result of increasing climate change.

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If the Keystone pipeline was meant to pump water it would still be sued, they would claim they were stealing water from endangered species and giving it to the rich. Have you heard of the delta smelt?

 

We do have a newer source of energy other than oil, it is called natural gas. It burns very clean and can power cars and be close to emission free. Yet it also is blocked from major adoption and has not been "sainted" by politicians.

 

Private industry will have to build out the infrastructure to develop it now. The low oil prices though are slowing it even further.

 

Solar has location limitations, and is expensive. We already wasted billions of dollars on it with the stimulus program that only stimulated politicians pockets, lol.

 

The good news is this environmental crusade is spreading to other foreign countries and they are getting a taste of how we have been stifled with progress. We have all the clean energy we need here, if only it was allowed to be developed.

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I can just see Canada and Alaska installing a trillion dollars worth of solar and then wondering why it only works half the year, lol.

 

YEAH?  Well I can see Canada from MY BACK PORCH!  :P

 

 

Sepiatone

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Germany has been way ahead of us. In the early 80's they were already recycling all garbage/glass/paper.

There is a village called Wildpoldsried that produces 321% more energy than they require. They use solar, biogas digesters, 7 windmills and hydro power plants. Germany doesn't see the sun daily and they've been using solar for years. They've dismantled all nuclear facilities.

 

Thanks Ham for finding the photos of Centralia. Like Tiki said the winter is the most strange and eerie time with the steam pockets.

 

I haven't read up on the keystone pipeline. I am told by family living in Nebraska that the ranchers are concerned because they rely on the aquifer and if it got contaminated in any way, their livelihood would be gone.

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Why not cover all parking lots with solar panels?  Solve 2 problems at the same time.  (gives new meaning to a cool idea)

 

 

 

solar-car-park-7.jpg

 

These will also create excellent solutions for charging electric vehicles. 

 

Perhaps, if humans survive long enough, we will create the Dyson Sphere around Earth using the outer surface as a singular solar panel. 

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Germany has been way ahead of us. In the early 80's they were already recycling all garbage/glass/paper.

There is a village called Wildpoldsried that produces 321% more energy than they require. They use solar, biogas digesters, 7 windmills and hydro power plants. Germany doesn't see the sun daily and they've been using solar for years. They've dismantled all nuclear facilities.

 

Thanks Ham for finding the photos of Centralia. Like Tiki said the winter is the most strange and eerie time with the steam pockets.

 

I haven't read up on the keystone pipeline. I am told by family living in Nebraska that the ranchers are concerned because they rely on the aquifer and if it got contaminated in any way, their livelihood would be gone.

 

The Keystone pipeline is controversial in many ways,  one -  how much do WE benefit from it. (domestic use vs foreign export)

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-01-09/keystone-foes-cite-foreign-oil-users-to-undercut-republican-push

 

The project..

 

Keystone-Map.jpg

 

 

Another divisive issue, sigh.. :(

 

obama-keystone-pipeline.jpg

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These will also create excellent solutions for charging electric vehicles. 

 

Perhaps, if humans survive long enough, we will create the Dyson Sphere around Earth using the outer surface as a singular solar panel. 

 

I like the part of charging cars.  A Dyson Sphere??  That hypothetical structure encompasses a star not a planet.

 

dyson-sphere-artist.jpeg

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I like the part of charging cars.  A Dyson Sphere??  That hypothetical structure encompasses a star not a planet.

 

...

Everyone knows that. That's why I specifically mentioned Earth.  We must be flexible.

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Everyone knows that. That's why I specifically mentioned Earth.  We must be flexible.

 

There is so much useless, empty vast areas in the desert southwest, why not use it for solar farms  All the energy simply going to waste.

 

3043730759_fd9cffe3f7.jpg

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Guess we really disagree on this subject, MovieMadness, but I'm glad to at least hear your opinion.


 


We do have a newer source of energy other than oil, it is called natural gas. It burns very clean and can power cars and be close to emission free. Yet it also is blocked from major adoption and has not been "sainted" by politicians.


 


Natural gas is not "new", it's been extracted and used for ages. My furnace runs on natural gas as does all the City busses here in Syracuse.


 


My problem with expanding the use of natural gas for cars is


1. All fossil fuels are a finite "source" and like oil, will certainly run out


and


2. "chemically enhancing extraction" via fracking is dangerous to the planet. 


You can't change the natural structure of the earth without expecting consequences. 


 


Now if they continued extracting natural gas by simply exposing it and allowing it to rise naturally, that might be ok, but they want to forcibly extract it using chemicals, not ok. 


 


The fact remains that eventually, natural gas will be exhausted and we'll be sitting on a lot of junk cars we can't operate because fueling them will be too expensive. Because as you know, there are more and more people on this planet every day....and every single one of them demand their own vehicle, big house, air conditioner, entitlement.


 


Why redevelop vehicles to run on fossil fuels at all? Since redesign is needed, why not put your efforts into redesigning engines to run on energy that is infinitely available like hydro, sun & wind generated electricity?


 


Private industry will have to build out the infrastructure to develop it now. The low oil prices though are slowing it even further.


 


Correct. That's why re-structuring is best when consumer driven. 


 


Solar has location limitations, and is expensive. 


 


Not true about location limitations. I live in an area with the second lowest amount of sun next to Seattle and lived comfortably in a passive solar heated home for years. It had "back up" electric heat which was rarely used. Just because the sun is behind clouds, it's still light out, isn't it? An individual home can easily receive enough energy from the sun to sustain itself.


 


In the short term, reconfiguring anything is "expensive". But you have to look down the road at the big picture.


 


The good news is this environmental crusade is spreading to other foreign countries and they are getting a taste of how we have been stifled with progress. 


 


Yeah, like Europe, who pays about $6-10 gallon for gas. And for the most part they've always driven more economical cars than our giant SUVs and (gasp!) used public transportation and/or bicycles.


 


 


On a personal note, MrTiki is on his second hybrid car, has driven one for over 10 years. I am not thrilled with the battery inside, since it is pretty toxic to dispose of. 


I'd much rather see further development of a "clean" disposable battery, than redesigning cars on questionable fuel sources. We're halfway there.

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Natural gas is not the answer.  As noted by others, the extraction process is not "clean" and getting worse.  Transporting by pipelines is also dangerous, particularly as the pipelines get older.

Our electricity comes from an old coal fired plant that is being converted to natural gas.  Sort of good, but it means eventually natural gas prices will go up for all.  More industrial/commercial users will result in higher prices.  The higher demand may outstrip supplies, even with natural gas tank ships bringing it here.

We use gas for hot water, heating and cooking, as do many people.

Natural gas vehicles will also lead to higher prices and there are limitations to natural gas powered vehicles.  It has been endorsed by politicians through various tax credits for users, but still not very popular.

Not a big fan of electric vehicles.  Most require expensive alterations to homes for safe recharging.  The range is still way too small, no matter what the manufacturers state.  Works well if its used only for local commuting and you don't have to depend on it for emergencies.  Still adds significantly to the draw on utilities that must create the electricity and distribute it.

There are other technologies being worked on that may prove better than electric for vehicles.

There is plenty of gasoline and diesel fuel in US.  Must be, look how many people drive a lot in very fuel wasting vehicles and most by themselves without a second thought.  Most grossly exceed the speed limit with no thought of saving gas and seldom put air in tires.

Maybe we do need $6-8.00 a gal gas in US even if it is created through higher taxes.  Then we could improve roads and bridges and public transportation.

Of course, after every energy crisis, fuel shortage, etc., Americans quickly return to their gas guzzling vehicles and driving habits.

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