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Fossil Fuel Fraud


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Maybe we do need $6-8.00 a gal gas in US even if it is created through higher taxes.  Then we could improve roads and bridges and public transportation.

 

Parts of Europe does this, there is a $1.00 tax added for every gallon of gas purchased.   In some places (dated in 2013) it's about $10.00 a gallon!  :o

 

Americans think owing a car is a right instead of a privilege by which the latter applies.

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/gas-prices-pump-europeans-pay-almost-twice-much-us-residents-1322727

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 Maybe we do need $6-8.00 a gal gas in US even if it is created through higher taxes.  Then we could improve roads and bridges and public transportation.

Of course, after every energy crisis, fuel shortage, etc., Americans quickly return to their gas guzzling vehicles and driving habits.

 

OK Cid.  Don't know what happened here, but----

 

The Michigan legislature just passed a bill allowing for the raising of the gasoline tax to help defray the cost of repairing the much in disrepair Michigan freeways and roads.  This may not work all that well because, if the tax is too high and raises the price per gallon of gass too high, it might reduce consumption, which of course will reduce the needed REVENUE! 

 

 

Sepiatone

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Natural gas would be a new option in the private automobile market for the masses, it is a cleaner fuel in many ways. Can anyone here seriously say that extracting natural gas is dirtier than oil with a straight face? lol. If you thought a little fracking fluid is bad in the ground, what do you think millions of gallons of oil is by comparison?

 

There are no other alternatives that can be adopted quickly and compete with oil. Electric cars just plug into the grid that uses lots of coal, an even dirtier fuel. They can't build dams to hold water and generate electricity as it hurts endangered species. Wind farms main and kill endangered species by the thousands. Solar is too expensive and is ugly. Nuclear is too slow to be built.

 

So the oil industry loves to hear all the negative chatter about natural gas. It is music to their ears. We will stay stuck on oil and giving money to terrorists. Higher oil prices mean more money for them because they can raise their prices too.

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 Maybe we do need $6-8.00 a gal gas in US even if it is created through higher taxes.  Then we could improve roads and bridges and public transportation.

Of course, after every energy crisis, fuel shortage, etc., Americans quickly return to their gas guzzling vehicles and driving habits.

 

OK Cid.  Don't know what happened here, but----

 

The Michigan legislature just passed a bill allowing for the raising of the gasoline tax to help defray the cost of repairing the much in disrepair Michigan freeways and roads.  This may not work all that well because, if the tax is too high and raises the price per gallon of gass too high, it might reduce consumption, which of course will reduce the needed REVENUE! 

 

 

Sepiatone

Sorry, I didn't specify that higher prices also reduce consumption, which is a good thing.

That's why the fuel tax should be tied to inflation or a dollar amount and not just per gal.

Also, the gas tax can be further raised as necessary if consumption drops that much, which it probably won't.

The main cause of reduced consumption of gasoline is more efficient automobiles, not less driving by the public or increased use of public transportation.

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So the oil industry loves to hear all the negative chatter about natural gas. It is music to their ears. We will stay stuck on oil and giving money to terrorists. Higher oil prices mean more money for them because they can raise their prices too.

There is little difference between the oil and natural gas industries as far as who owns them and/or who benefits financially.  US is an EXPORTER of oil.  Even the Canadian oil that would come through the Keystone Pipeline would be exported.  Endanger US aguifer for Canadian profit.

In order to substantially reduce dependence on fossil fuels, US would have to begin a government financed and administered program that would dwarf the interstate highway program.  BTW, the plans for the interstate highway system go back to the 1920's. They were well in place before Eisenhower.  US highway adminstrators had visited Germany in the 1930's to view Hitler's marvel (Autobahn) long before Eisenhower saw them.  He did use his clout to get Congress to authorize the money to start the interstates.

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There is little difference between the oil and natural gas industries as far as who owns them and/or who benefits financially.  US is an EXPORTER of oil.  Even the Canadian oil that would come through the Keystone Pipeline would be exported.

 

Exporting crude oil is illegal in the US. - So Canada and Mexico can export but not the US. You still get a Christmas card, though.

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Natural gas would be a new option in the private automobile market for the masses, it is a cleaner fuel in many ways. Can anyone here seriously say that extracting natural gas is dirtier than oil with a straight face? lol. If you thought a little fracking fluid is bad in the ground, what do you think millions of gallons of oil is by comparison?

 

There are no other alternatives that can be adopted quickly and compete with oil. Electric cars just plug into the grid that uses lots of coal, an even dirtier fuel. They can't build dams to hold water and generate electricity as it hurts endangered species. Wind farms main and kill endangered species by the thousands. Solar is too expensive and is ugly. Nuclear is too slow to be built.

 

So the oil industry loves to hear all the negative chatter about natural gas. It is music to their ears. We will stay stuck on oil and giving money to terrorists. Higher oil prices mean more money for them because they can raise their prices too.

 

 

There is no perfect solution, we only need to use our resources wisely i.e. scrubbers on coal burning plants, more fuel efficient cars.

 

Alaska is pumping the natural gas back into the ground!! - why not use it?  

 

Modern technology requires power and oil/coal by products, there is no way around it.  When environmentalist protest about oil, etc. do they realize the phones they talk on, the clothes on their back, the food they eat, the water out of the faucet, medical drugs, and on and on requires the combination of fossil fuels, wind, hydro to make, produce, ship, power virtually everything around them.

 

If we ever suffer a coronal mass ejection from the sun (repeat of the 1859 Carrington Event) that fries our technology, it will be a rude awakening for ALL how dependent we are on this stuff.  Goodness, just look at hurricane Sandy when people were without power, water, etc. for that short amount of time, everyone freaked out and wanted people hung!  

 

Many victims of the storm got reduced to....

 

1420652793-5734-crying-baby.jpg

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Thought I throw this in, things that are made from fossil fuels we don't think about.

 

 

The body of electrical sockets, plugs, switches

 

socket_wired.jpg

 

L1430-P.jpg

 

 

The insulation on wires 

 

Standard-household-electrical-wire.jpg

 

 

Water pipes and fittings

 

LR-CPF-Library-PVC-Pipe-and-Fittings.jpg

 

 

Natural gas pipe

dn20_sdr_11_gas_pipe_in_the.jpg

 

 

Chemicals, even in water based paints

 

valspar-paint-lowes.jpg

 

 

That's to get your attention....

 

a partial list products made from petroleum 

 

http://www.ranken-energy.com/Products%20from%20Petroleum.htm

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I know I don't have any desire to fork out $6 - $8 bucks for a gallon of gas for any reason.  I'm not exactly rolling in $dough$ and do not wish to spend any more than necessary to fill up my 13-gallon gas tank.  I figure the $3.99 I pay per gallon to put 90 octane non-ethanol gas in my fuel tank is •plenty•. The 1 gas station around where I live that has non-ethanol gas charges over $1 more per gallon cos they say it has to be shipped in a separate truck that does not also haul the plentiful 10% Ethanol gas that 98% of stations around here sell (in small-town GA) and that costs more.  Whether that's actually true or not I have no idea, but that's the way it goes. 

 

     I am more than willing to let anyone who wants to pay $7.00 per gallon of gas do so.  Since I have no desire to punish my fellow citizens by making them eat up their paychecks buying gas I'd try and keep the price low if I could were I in charge.  I think the average price per gallon when Obama took over was $1.83.  I'd gladly pay that for a gallon of non-ethanol gas . . . but it ain't happenin'.      

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I know I don't have any desire to fork out $6 - $8 bucks for a gallon of gas for any reason. 

I think other Americans would agree with you with an overwhelming majority. 

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I think other Americans would agree with you in an overwhelming majority. 

 

This "beast" as it's become to be known gets 8 mpg.

 

obama-presidential-limo-005_100192690_l.

 

 

Ever wonder why the average Canadian or European gets mad at us?

 

WA_pushing.jpg

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

suv3.jpg

 

 

(madder because THAT is the WORST Elvis impersonator ever!)

Elvis-in-Vegas.jpg

 

 

For heaven sake!! This is not a stretched limo, it's a TRAIN!

 

00d81a471092429f435ba62cc512eca4.jpg

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This "beast" as it's become to be known gets 8 mpg.

 

obama-presidential-limo-005_100192690_l.

 

 

Ever wonder why the average Canadian or European gets mad at us?

 

WA_pushing.jpg

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

suv3.jpg

 

 

(madder because THAT is the WORST Elvis impersonator ever!)

Elvis-in-Vegas.jpg

 

 

For heaven sake!! This is not a stretched limo, it's a TRAIN!

 

00d81a471092429f435ba62cc512eca4.jpg

I was in the Persian Gulf during that war and got into a discussion with another officer re: HUMVEES.  Arnorld Schwartenegger to the contrary I didn't think the public would really buy them.  He disagreed.  My experience was based on actually having driven them.  Very good military vehicle, but way too big, way too inefficient fuel wise, not comfortable at all and just not something I would ever want to ride in for regular transportation.  And very hard to park them, except in the desert.

Well, I was wrong - Americans will buy anything.

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I know I don't have any desire to fork out $6 - $8 bucks for a gallon of gas for any reason.  I'm not exactly rolling in $dough$ and do not wish to spend any more than necessary to fill up my 13-gallon gas tank.  I figure the $3.99 I pay per gallon to put 90 octane non-ethanol gas in my fuel tank is •plenty•. The 1 gas station around where I live that has non-ethanol gas charges over $1 more per gallon cos they say it has to be shipped in a separate truck that does not also haul the plentiful 10% Ethanol gas that 98% of stations around here sell (in small-town GA) and that costs more.  Whether that's actually true or not I have no idea, but that's the way it goes. 

 

     I am more than willing to let anyone who wants to pay $7.00 per gallon of gas do so.  Since I have no desire to punish my fellow citizens by making them eat up their paychecks buying gas I'd try and keep the price low if I could were I in charge.  I think the average price per gallon when Obama took over was $1.83.  I'd gladly pay that for a gallon of non-ethanol gas . . . but it ain't happenin'.      

Well said.

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 I think the average price per gallon when Obama took over was $1.83.  I'd gladly pay that for a gallon of non-ethanol gas . . . but it ain't happenin'.      

Of course, we were in the worst recession since the Great Depression.  Gas here is $2.23 for regular.  They do charge more for non-ethanol.  The President has zero influence over the price of gasoline.

If you want cheaper gas, contact your US Senators and Representatives and tell them to eliminate requirement for ethanol in gasoline.  The politicians are the ones who require it, not EPA.  Of course, ethanol has become a multi-billion dollar business.  Agri-business, refiners, rail and truck transport, distributors, etc.  Lots of rich lobbyists.

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I didn't mean to infer I thought President Obama hiked up the price of gasoline.  God Only Knows how many different forces are at work that 'create' the price at the pumps . . .

 

I do think it's silly to burn our food supply to make ethanol. 

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I was in the Persian Gulf during that war and got into a discussion with another officer re: HUMVEES.  Arnorld Schwartenegger to the contrary I didn't think the public would really buy them.  He disagreed.  My experience was based on actually having driven them.  Very good military vehicle, but way too big, way too inefficient fuel wise, not comfortable at all and just not something I would ever want to ride in for regular transportation.  And very hard to park them, except in the desert.

Well, I was wrong - Americans will buy anything.

 

Not only has Arnold Schwarzenegger bought several Humvees but also this thing called a Unimog which has a 6.3 litre Euro 3 turbo diesel engine producing 320 HP.  It only gets about 8 MPG.  But how rich he is, a tanker truck is probably part of his collection.

 

Getting pump - up. :huh:

 

Arnold-Schwarzenegger-Unimog.jpg

 

unimog-hollywood-star-arnold-schwarzeneg

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I didn't mean to infer I thought President Obama hiked up the price of gasoline.  God Only Knows how many different forces are at work that 'create' the price at the pumps . . .

 

I do think it's silly to burn our food supply to make ethanol. 

 

 

People are starving in the world and here we are driving cars running on corn.

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The Cid (who has a car avatar) said: Natural gas vehicles will also lead to higher prices and there are limitations to natural gas powered vehicles. 


 


Any newly retrofit designed vehicle will be higher in cost just to pay for the research & development. 


 


Has anyone noticed all the Prius Hybrids on the road? They have been at the same price point as "regular" cars for years and now there are Used Prius only dealers. People think $3 a gallon is too high a price.


 


Plus, by being a "hybrid" they are part electric battery, part gasoline. We used a $30 tank of gas to drive from Syracuse to Alabama last Feb. I'd prefer to eliminate the gas part altogether eventually.


 


Not a big fan of electric vehicles.  Most require expensive alterations to homes for safe recharging.  The range is still way too small, no matter what the manufacturers state.  Works well if its used only for local commuting and you don't have to depend on it for emergencies.  


 


Since we already have some "electrics" and hybrids technology in place, doesn't it make sense to continue development in that direction? The Prius battery is charged whenever we travel down hill and whenever we roll without pressing the gas pedal.


 


Still adds significantly to the draw on utilities that must create the electricity and distribute it.


 


Which is why CLEAN hydro and wind generated electricity is the way to go. The electric grid is already in place.


 


There is plenty of gasoline and diesel fuel in US.  Must be, look how many people drive a lot in very fuel wasting vehicles and most by themselves without a second thought.


 


"Without a thought" is right.


 


 


MovieMadness said: Wind farms main and kill endangered species by the thousands. Solar is too expensive and is ugly.


 


Really? Please enlighten me with some back up to your statement. Thousands? As stated earlier, I just spent time on a wind farm and saw no endangered species killed by the turbines. And I found them magnificent and mesmerizing to watch.


 


So the oil industry loves to hear all the negative chatter about natural gas. We will stay stuck on oil and giving money to terrorists.


 


I agree with you 100% on that one.


 


You're right on all the products made from oil hamradio, a very good reason for us not to waste oil burned up by driving.

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Something wrong with having a car avatar?  It's a 1956 Chrysler New Yorker St. Regis.

Incidentally, I purchase economical cars and think the V8 and high powered cars are ridiculous. 

Not against electric vehicles per se, just think they are not very practical for most people.  If you want pure electric, plenty on the market.  Just make sure your route on long trips is well planned for recharging stations and that you have something to do while you wait.

While the electric grid is in place, the plants that actually produce the electricity are overwhelmed now.  The grid itself is old in most locations and hasn't the capacity to carry more electricity without upgrades.  

Regardless, my point was that if we shift automobiles and industries and electric production to natural gas, we will increase the price as it is a fossil fuel with a finite supply.  This will affect the millions who use it for heating and cooking.

While hydro is good, there are only a few rivers that can be dammed to produce more.  Daming rivers also creates other problems.  Not to mention, the conflict between storing water for drinking and agriculture vs. letting it flow for electricity production.

Wind farms are ugly and you can see them from far away.  They also produce noise and will produce more as they age.

Bottom line:  we need to investigate all types of energy, but there is no panacea that will replace gasoline/diesel vehicles signficantly during our lifetimes.  At least not in US.

 

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Bottom line:  we need to investigate all types of energy, but there is no panacea that will replace gasoline/diesel vehicles signficantly during our lifetimes.  At least not in US.

 

Our lifetime is not the over-riding concern of human existence.

 

Solar energy is the way of the future. Fossil energy will be displaced by it. Unless climate change interferes with our continuing progress toward that, it's a sure thing.

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MovieMadness said: Wind farms main and kill endangered species by the thousands. Solar is too expensive and is ugly.

 

Really? Please enlighten me with some back up to your statement. Thousands? As stated earlier, I just spent time on a wind farm and saw no endangered species killed by the turbines. And I found them magnificent and mesmerizing to watch.

 

 

Copy and paste headlines

 

Wind farms that kill bald eagles are now protected from prosecution

 

The Obama administration said Friday it will allow some companies to kill or injure bald and golden eagles for up to 30 years without penalty, an effort to spur development and investment in green energy while balancing its environmental consequences.

 

US windfarms kill 10-20 times more than previously thought

 

America’s wind farms are actually slaughtering millions of birds and bats annually

 

The Obama administration is issuing 30-year permits for “taking” (killing) bald and golden eagles. The great birds will be legally slaughtered “unintentionally” by lethal wind turbines installed in their breeding territories, and in “dispersion areas” where their young congregate (e.g. Altamont Pass).

 

Red-kite-with-broken-wing-awaiting-slow-

 

 

Anyone want to sell bird nest soup?

 

Or breaded eagle breasts?

 

Just go find a wind farm and collect all the ingredients you need.

 

How about endangered bat mole?

 

dead_white-tailed_eagle-500.jpg

 

bats-graphic1.jpg

 

search_cutline.jpg

 

The mystery of why large numbers of migratory bats are killed by certain turbines of southern Alberta’s wind farms every year may have been solved by a comprehensive University of Calgary research project that has yielded answers to the problem.

 

Nine species of bats are found in Alberta, three of which migrate through the province each year. The majority of bats killed at wind turbines are the migratory bats that roost in trees, including hoary bats, eastern red bats, and silver-haired bats. While little is known about their population sizes, the researchers said their deaths could have far-reaching consequences. Bats typically live for many years, in some cases reaching ages of 30 or more. Most also have just one or two pups at a time, and not necessarily every year.

 

Northern spotted owls are still disappearing in Canada too. In British Columbia, Canada, as of 2010, only six pairs are known in the wild, down from historic numbers of 500 pairs.

 

Wind turbines are creating endangered species and making it worse for those already endangered.

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If someone can ever get the problem with fusion worked out.  Long term magnetic confinement , how to get the fuel in and energy out with the POWERFUL confinement field in place.

 

tokamak.jpg

 

1413458769593_wps_28_Fusion_Reactor_Imag

 

 

So far it's only been an expensive, brief light show in tokamaks :angry:

 

TE_start_plasma.jpg

 

 

Shiva type implosion reactors are impractical.

 

Shiva_laser_target_chamber.jpg

 

 

Remember the "big door" scene in "Tron" (1982)?  It leads directly  to the "bottle" -  part of an experimental fusion reactor at Lawrence Livermore.  That containment field I previously mentioned almost tore it off it's hinges, no kidding.  It's so powerful, a stack of cars 300 high can be lifted 50 feet off the ground!

 

Tron3.jpg

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Our lifetime is not the over-riding concern of human existence.

 

Solar energy is the way of the future. Fossil energy will be displaced by it. Unless climate change interferes with our continuing progress toward that, it's a sure thing.

 

I can just see everyone waking up and cleaning the snow off the solar panels to get electricity.

 

26winter.600.jpg

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