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horror and science fiction genres just as important as classic film noir


NipkowDisc
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tcm is hamstringing itself. they coulda gotten a hold of the complete superior BFI print of hammer studios' Dracula from 1958

they wouldn't.

as far as the recent passing of the great Christopher Lee, they coulda had osborne or manckiewicz host a primetime sit-in with a hammer personage such as veronica carlson, who incidentally lives in the u.s., they wouldn't.

science fiction? this island earth, a classic so imbedded in our cultural consciousness that steven spielberg put a scene or two in ET, but since tcm doan show it, can we ever expect to see a primetime sit-in with it's still living star Rex Reason? probably not. with horror and science fiction such conspicuous subject matter in Hollywood for most of the past 50 years, it ill behooves tcm imo to disregard it so.

 

just sayin'. :)

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tcm is hamstringing itself. they coulda gotten a hold of the complete superior BFI print of hammer studios' Dracula from 1958

they wouldn't.

as far as the recent passing of the great Christopher Lee, they coulda had osborne or manckiewicz host a primetime sit-in with a hammer personage such as veronica carlson, who incidentally lives in the u.s., they wouldn't.

science fiction? this island earth, a classic so imbedded in our cultural consciousness that steven spielberg put a scene or two in ET, but since tcm doan show it, can we ever expect to see a primetime sit-in with it's still living star Rex Reason? probably not. with horror and science fiction such conspicuous subject matter in Hollywood for most of the past 50 years, it ill behooves tcm imo to disregard it so.

 

just sayin'. :)

 

Early Sci-Fi movies like This Island Earth were the first I got, back when I started to collect movies more seriously.  I already had them on DVD, so I didn't really notice how many aren't being played right now.  On the other hand, they have played quite a bit that I wouldn't have been able to find otherwise.  Plenty of "Unobtainium" passes through TCM, and I hope to see more.  I'd be happy with less Melodrama and more Sci-Fi.

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tcm is hamstringing itself. they coulda gotten a hold of the complete superior BFI print of hammer studios' Dracula from 1958

they wouldn't.

as far as the recent passing of the great Christopher Lee, they coulda had osborne or manckiewicz host a primetime sit-in with a hammer personage such as veronica carlson, who incidentally lives in the u.s., they wouldn't.

science fiction? this island earth, a classic so imbedded in our cultural consciousness that steven spielberg put a scene or two in ET, but since tcm doan show it, can we ever expect to see a primetime sit-in with it's still living star Rex Reason? probably not. with horror and science fiction such conspicuous subject matter in Hollywood for most of the past 50 years, it ill behooves tcm imo to disregard it so.

 

just sayin'. :)

 

Oh, for crying out loud, who cares? I enjoy TCM for what they have, and what they don't have I watch somewhere else. There are so many channels out there now showing all kinds of goodies... And the goodies I like and are never shown on TV, I buy on Amazonia. There is a drawback to that, however. The Boston "You know Who" series that I purchased from a private dealer, pretty much sucked on the quality level. Fortunately GetTV shows a lot of the Columbia pictures.

I must confess and always will hope that TCM will do the noir Saturdays.

I'm loving the noir Friday stuff on TCM and hope they continue it.

BYW. Christopher stunk as Dracula.

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tcm is hamstringing itself. they coulda gotten a hold of the complete superior BFI print of hammer studios' Dracula from 1958

they wouldn't.

as far as the recent passing of the great Christopher Lee, they coulda had osborne or manckiewicz host a primetime sit-in with a hammer personage such as veronica carlson, who incidentally lives in the u.s., they wouldn't.

science fiction? this island earth, a classic so imbedded in our cultural consciousness that steven spielberg put a scene or two in ET, but since tcm doan show it, can we ever expect to see a primetime sit-in with it's still living star Rex Reason? probably not. with horror and science fiction such conspicuous subject matter in Hollywood for most of the past 50 years, it ill behooves tcm imo to disregard it so.

 

just sayin'. :)

:D  :D  :D            Oh, you're serious.

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tcm is hamstringing itself. they coulda gotten a hold of the complete superior BFI print of hammer studios' Dracula from 1958

they wouldn't.

So exactly how do you know this? Do you work in the programming department at TCM or at the BFI? How do you know that TCM hasn't tried to get that version but was turned down? Do know for a fact the  the BFI offered it to them, but TCM passed on it. Somehow I doubt it.

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I have never been a fan of horror. To me its just people making bad decisions and paying for it.

 

And many old sci fi films were a bit cheesy for me ( not all of course ). I don't care for much sci fi before 1977 or so. 

 

Noir influenced so many parts of our culture for all these decades. Style, fashion etc... When they decided to bring classic films back to theaters recently, it was noir films they chose.

 

I just can't say horror is at the same level

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NipkowDisc: I suspect that neither TCM nor any other U.S. network will be broadcasting any updated print of Horror of Dracula (1958) until there is a corresponding Blu-Ray release in the U.S. So Warner Bros. may be most at fault with respect to that particular situation since I believe that company has the U.S. rights to that movie.

GGGGerald: The TCM Presents Big Screen Classic Events series is not limited to film noir. The upcoming schedule for that series includes Grease (1978) in August, Psycho (1960) in September, Dracula (1931) and Drácula (1931) in October, Roman Holiday (1953) in November and Miracle on 34th Street (1947) in December. So we are getting a mix of genres on the big screen.

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I have never been a fan of horror. To me its just people making bad decisions and paying for it.

 

And many old sci fi films were a bit cheesy for me ( not all of course ). I don't care for much sci fi before 1977 or so. 

 

Noir influenced so many parts of our culture for all these decades. Style, fashion etc... When they decided to bring classic films back to theaters recently, it was noir films they chose.

 

I just can't say horror is at the same level

Actually stutter( my new "nickname" for ya!)  for some of us, the cheezier the Sci-Fi, the BETTER!  And I've never been too big on most horror flicks after I got past the age of 14 or so.  And they've become so cliched and formulaic since then that it's ridiculous to me.  And I DON'T mean the "NEW" definition of "ridiculous".

 

I do like a lot of what's called the "classic" horror flicks( Frankenstein, Dracula, The Wolfman etc.) in spite of any of their shortcomings.  They're just fun, is all.

 

 

Sepiatone

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I haven't been part of this argument/discussion and haven't read all of the posts yet, but I will say that horror and science fiction are more important than film noir. They get a bad rap, but they are the folk tales, myths, and fairy stories of the 20th and 21st centuries.  Some of the films delve into that part of the human psyche to find where evil dwells; others deal in the externalization of evil. Their equivalents in the 19th century were the subject of a lot more serious scholarship than that century's noir stories.

 

Noir does seem more important to TCM, and to posters here; but although I enjoy it, I think in the scheme of things it's a lesser genre than horror, a genre that has been obsessing people's minds for millennia.

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Part of the problem for the reputations of the "classic" horror and science fiction genres is that for every Horror of Dracula or Bride of Frankenstein or Day the Earth Stood Still produced there have been dozens of dire efforts, shoddy little efforts with limited redeeming features.

 

Now some people, of course, enjoy "bad" movies, too, and that's fine. There are those who enjoy Mexican horror films or Ed Wood features, for example. At the same time, though, those dime store efforts denigrate the status of those two genres to many people.

 

That doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of mundane film noirs, as well. Somehow, though, I can't think of a film noir that enjoys the "status" of being one of the worst films ever made, such as a Plan 9 From Outer Space.

 

This may be a significant reason why film noir is taken more seriously than horror or sci fi.Having said that, such films as King Kong, Mad Love, Invisible Man and the 1951 version of The Thing rank among my favourite films. Having said that, there are just too many stinkeroos produced, too, by lesser talents (usually for a fast buck) in those genres (and I am far from alone in those feelings).

 

Call it elitist, if you like, but there are also more prestige "A" stars that have partipated in film noir (Mitchum, Bogart, Stanwyck, Garfield, Turner, Powell, Lancaster, Gardner, etc.) than in what is often regarded as the "ghetto" of horror or science fiction films. That, too, impacts the perception of importance.

 

Certainly I enjoy the best of horror films (not so much sci fi) as much as anything in film noir. Percentage-wise, though, there are more films dealing with big city back alleys, gumshoes and femme fatales that I like than there are films of the supernatural.

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Call it elitist, if you like, but there are also more more prestige "A" stars that have partipated in film noir (Mitchum, Bogart, Stanwyck, Garfield, Turner, Powell, Lancaster, Gardner, etc.) than in what is often regarded as the "ghetto" of horror or science fiction films. That, too, impacts the perception of importance.

 

 

But you see, I wouldn't call it elitist. I would call too much respect for "more prestige A stars" quite the opposite, more like a hoi polloi sensibility. I'd like to see the SOTM thingee abolished. That's not why movies are meaningful to me.

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But you see, I wouldn't call it elitist. I would call too much respect for "more prestige A stars" quite the opposite, more like a hoi polloi sensibility. I'd like to see the SOTM thingee abolished. That's not why movies are meaningful to me.

But I strongly suspect that you are in a minority with that opinion, Swithin.

 

Thus, my point about the greater association of "A" stars with film noir giving that genre more status (or importance) than horror/sci fi films.

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But I strongly suspect that you are in a minority with that opinion, Swithin.

 

Thus, my point about the greater association of "A" stars with film noir giving that genre more status (or importance) than horror/sci fi films.

I strongly agree with you that I am in the minority with that opinion, Tom! 

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Certainly I enjoy the best of horror films (not so much sci fi) as much as anything in film noir. Percentage-wise, though, there are more films dealing with big city back alleys, gumshoes and femme fatales that I like than there are films of the supernatural.

Speaking of femme fatales, anyone else think that Brian De Palma's FEMME FATALE is a cinematic masterpiece?  I certainly do. Other than one, fairly major, brick-wall of a scene, late the the picture, the film is the very definition of cinema, to me.  Oh, and I've certainly enjoyed more horror films over the years, than noirs.

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Two points:

 

1.  "A" stars Did make Horror films--for example:

 

Fredric March & Miriam Hopkins co-starred in "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" (1932)

 

Spencer Tracy & Lana Turner & Ingrid Bergman starred in "Dr Jekyll & Mr. Hyde" (1941)

 

John Barrymore starred in "Svengali" (1931)

 

2.  Horror stars weren't exclusively capable of just that genre.

 

Christopher Lee moved up from horror films to branch out into all types of film, including Shakespeare (Julius Caesar, 1970)

 

Vincent Price started out as a stage actor playing opposite Helen Hayes.

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