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I'm reposting this list of neo-noir films because as posts increase, the list gets kicked onto the next page. I think it's a good idea that once a new page starts, someone should repost the list so that it's easer to find.

 

I also restructured the list in chronological order so that it's easier to read.

 

List of neo-noir titles:

 

1960s

Underworld U.S.A. (1961), dir. Samuel Fuller
Cape Fear (1962), dir. J. Lee Thompson

The Manchurian Candidate (1962), dir. John Frankenheimer
Shock Corridor (1963) dir. Samuel Fuller

Dr. Strangelove or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964), dir. Stanley Kubrick
The Naked Kiss (1964), dir. Samuel Fuller
Point Blank (1967), dir. John Boorman

Branded to Kill (1967) dir. Seijun Suzuki

Wait Until Dark (1967), dir. Terence Young

Bullitt (1968), dir. Peter Yates

Marlowe (1969) dir. Paul Bogart

 
1970s

Klute, (1971), dir. Alan J. Pakula

Get Carter (1971) dir. Mike Hodges

Pulp (1972), dir. Mike Hodges

The Friends of Eddie Coyle (1973), dir. Peter Yates

The Long Goodbye (1973) dir. Robert Altman

Chinatown (1974), dir. Roman Polanski

Farewell My Lovely (1975), dir. Dick Richards

Night Moves (1975) dir. Arthur Penn

Taxi Driver (1976), dir. Martin Scorsese

The Big Sleep (1978), dir. Michael Winner

 

1980s

The Long Good Friday (1980) dir. John Mackenzie

Body Heat (1981), dir. Lawrence Kasdan

Pennies from Heaven (1981), dir. Herbert Ross

Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid (1982), dir. Carl Reiner

Blade Runner (1982), dir. Ridley Scott

Blood Simple (1984), dir. Joel Coen

After Hours (1985), dir. Martin Scorsese

Year of the Dragon (1985), dir. Michael Cimino

Blue Velvet (1986), dir. David Lynch

Something Wild (1986), dir. Jonathan Demme

Manhunter (1986), dir. Michael Mann

A Better Tomorrow (1986), dir. John Woo

The Big Easy (1986), dir. Jim McBride

Down by Law (1986), dir Jim Jarmusch

House of Games (1987), dir. David Mamet

Stormy Monday (1988), dir. Mike Figgis

Sea of Love (1989) dir. Harold Becker

 

1990s

Miller’s Crossing (1990), dir. Joel Coen

King of New York (1990) dir. Abel Ferrara

The Two Jakes (1990), dir. Jack Nicholson

State of Grace (1990) dir. Phil Joanou

Barton Fink (1991), dir. Joel and Ethan Coen

Silence of the Lambs (1991) dir. Jonathan Demme

A Rage in Harlem (1991) dir. Bill Duke

Red Rock West (1992), dir. John Dahl

Hard Boiled (1992) dir. John Woo

Reservoir Dogs (1992) dir. Quentin Tarantino

Deep Cover (1992), dir. Bill Duke

Romeo Is Bleeding (1993), dir. Peter Medak

True Romance (1993) Tony Scott

Serial Mom (1994), dir. John Waters

The Last Seduction (1994), dir. John Dahl

Se7en (1995), dir. David Fincher

The Usual Suspects (1995), dir. Bryan Singer

Heat (1995) dir. Michael Mann

Jade (1995) dir. William Friedkin

Devil in a Blue Dress (1995), dir. Carl Franklin

Fargo (1996), dir. Joel Coen

Mulholland Falls (1996), dir. Lee Tamahori

Bound (1996), dir. The Wachowski Brothers

Jackie Brown (1997) dir. Quentin Tarantino

L.A. Confidential (1997), dir. Curtis Hanson

Angel Heart (1997), dir. Alan Parker

U-Turn (1997), dir. Oliver Stone

Dark City (1998), dir. Alex Proyas

Palmetto (1998), dir. Volker Schlondorff

The Big Lebowski (1998), dir. Joel Coen

Following (1999), dir. Christopher Nolan

 

2000s

Memento (2000), dir. Christopher Nolan

Sexy Beast (2000) dir. Jonathan Glazer

Mulholland Drive (2001), dir. David Lynch

Training Day (2001) dir. Antoine Fugua

Femme Fatale (2002), dir. Brian de Palma

Gangs of New York (2002), dir. Martin Scorsese

Out of Time (2003), dir. Carl Franklin

Mystic River (2003) dir. Clint Eastwood

Collateral (2004) dir. Michael Mann

Derailed (2005), dir. Mikael Hafstrom

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005), dir. Shane Black

Batman Begins (2005), dir. Christopher Nolan

Brick (2006), dir. Rian Johnson

The Black Dahlia (2006), dir. Brian DePalma

Hollywoodland (2006), dir. Allen Coulter

Zodiac (2007), dir. David Fincher

Killshot (2009), dir. John Madden

Not Forgotten (2009), dir. Dror Soref

The Red Riding Trilogy (2009), Julian Jarrold, James Marsh, Anand Tucker

 

2010s

The Town (2010), dir. Ben Affleck

Shutter Island (2010), dir. Martin Scorsese

Winter’s Bone (2010), dir. Debra Granik

The Sweeney (2012) dir. Nick Love

Stonehearst Asylum (2014), dir. Brad Anderson

Nightcrawler (2014), dir. Dan Gilroy

The Equalizer (2014), dir. Antoine Fuqua

Irrational Man (2015), dir. Woody Allen

 

 

International

Le cercle rouge (The Red Circle) (1970), dir. Jean-Pierre Melville (France)

Delicatessen (1991), dir. Marc Caro and Jean-Pierre Jeunet (France)

León: The Professional (1994), dir. Luc Besson  (France)

Shallow Grave (1995), dir. Danny Boyle, (United Kingdom)

Amores perros (2001) dir. Alejandro González Iñárritu (Mexico)

Oldboy (2003) dir. Chan-wook Park (Korea)

La demoiselle d’honneur (The Bridesmaid) (2004), dir. Claude Chabrol (France)

El aura (2005), dir. Fabián Bielinsky  (Argentina, France, and Spain)

Caché (Hidden) (2005), dir. Michael Haneke (France)

Where the Truth Lies (2005), dir. Atom Egoyan (Canada)

The Secret in Their Eyes (2009), dir. Juan José Campanella (Argentina)

 

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And here is the chronological list of Visual Neo Noirs and Neo Film Soleil that I have seen, (a work in progress) which includes a lot of those listed below but leaves off those films that just quite don't cut the mustard and are Noirs In Plot Only  NIPOs which without the visual stylistics makes them basically Crime Films. I consider these Films below the rich vein of for the most part very stylistic and visual Neo Noir. 

 

Blast Of Silence (1961) 
 
Underworld USA (1961) 
 
Something Wild (1961) 
 
Cape Fear (1962) 
 
Experiment In Terror (1962) 
 
Satan in High Heels (1962) 
 
The Manchurian Candidate (1962) 
 
Shock Corridor (1962) 
 
Requiem for a Heavyweight (1962) 
 
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964)
 
The Naked Kiss (1964) 
 
The Pawnbroker (1964) 
 
The Glass Cage (1964)
 
Brainstorm (1965) 
 
Once A Thief (1965) 
 
Harper (1966) 
 
Mr. Buddwing (1966) 
 
The Incident (1967)
 
In Cold Blood (1967) 
 
In The Heat Of The Night (1967) 
 
The Pick-Up (1968)
 
Marlowe (1969) 
 
The Honeymoon Killers (1970) 
 
Darker Than Amber (1970)
 
Shaft  (1971)
 
Across 110th Street (1971) 
 
The Getaway (1971) 
 
Get Carter (1971) 
 
Hickey & Boggs (1972) 
 
Bring Me The Head Of Alfredo Garcia (1974) 
 
The Nickel Ride (1974)
 
Chinatown (1974)
 
The Drowning Pool (1975) 
 
Farewell My Lovely (1975)
 
Night Moves (1975) 
 
Pasqualino Settebellzze (1975) 
 
Taxi Driver (1976) 
 
Dressed to Kill (1980) 
 
Union City (1980) 
 
The Postman Always Rings Twice (1981)
 
Body Heat (1981) 
 
Thief (1981)
 
Blade Runner (1982) 
 
Hammett (1982) 
 
Blood Simple (1984) 
 
Tightrope (1984)
 
To Live and Die in L.A. (1985)
 
After Hours (1985)
 
Blue Velvet (1986) 
 
Angel Heart (1987) 
 
Frantic (1988) 
 
Kill Me Again (1989)
 
The Grifters (1990) 
 
The Kill-Off (1990) 
 
The Hot Spot (1990) 
 
Wild At Heart (1990) 
 
Impulse (1990)
 
Dick Tracy (1990) 
 
Delicatessen (1991) 
 
Reservoir Dogs (1992) 
 
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (1992) 
 
Romeo Is Bleeding (1993)
 
True Romance (1993) 
 
The Wrong Man (1993) 
 
The Last Seduction (1994) 
 
Natural Born Killers (1994)
 
Pulp Fiction (1994) 
 
Blink (1994)
 
Se7en (1995) 
 
Devil In A Blue Dress (1995)
 
Fargo (1996) 
 
Mulholland Falls (1996) 
 
Hit Me (1996)
 
Jackie Brown (1997) 
 
L.A. Confidential (1997) 
 
Lost Highway (1997) 
 
This World, Then the Fireworks (1997) 
 
Dark City (1998) 
 
A Simple Plan (1998) 
 
The Big Lebowski (1998) 
 
Payback (1999)
 
Night Train (1999) 
 
The Man Who Wasn’t There (2001) 
 
Mulholland Drive (2001) 
 
Sin City (2005) 
 
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005)
 
No Country For Old Men (2007) 
 
Dark Country (2009)
 
The Killer Inside Me (2010)
 
Sin City: A Dame To Kill For (2014)
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That the song is about prison is obvious.

 

I always thought the line was  "Got unnatural feelings" instead of "a natural feelings" It makes more sense that way considering if she's got no one to please, implying no sex with men and thus her only option for pleasure is with other women.

 

And yes, prison films were a theme in films noir such as Caged (1950) and Brute Force (1947)

 

I copied the lyrics from stlyrics.com.

 

I don't think I would call Jackie Brown a prison film. I just thought the lyrics about doing prison time enhanced the film's "noir-ness."

 

The list of films is actually quite a bit longer. I've been repeating the list of noir characteristics and updating the list of films regularly, but I'll do it again.

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I am repeating the list of film noir and neo-noir characteristics (borrowings) we have been using to investigate neo-noir. Please use as many or as few characteristics as you like to discuss neo-noir. I started the discussion thread as a way to continue applying what we learned in Dr. Edwards’s course, TCM Presents Into the Darkness: Investigating Film Noir (aka Summer of Darkness: Investigating Film Noir).

 

Also included (below the list of characteristics) is the most up-to-date list of neo-noir films; we have been adding—and continue to add—titles to the list. The list is broken down by decade, and alphabetized within each decade.

 

Characteristics borrowed from film noir to define neo-noir and modern neo-noir:

1. Chiaroscuro for black and white films, intense or muted color in movies filmed in color (In either black and white or color, the technique is used to enhance the mood and/or the emotional content.)

2. Flashbacks

3. Unusual narration

4. Crime/planning a crime (usually—but not always—murder)

5. Femme fatale and/or homme fatale

6. The instrument of fate

7. Angst (for example, guilt, fear, self-doubt, confusion, and so on; in other words, anything that contributes to angst)

8. Violence or the threat of violence

9. Urban and nighttime settings

10. Allusion to post–World War II (or any postwar) themes (optional)

11. Philosophical themes (existentialism in particular) involving alienation, loneliness

12. Psychology (hypnosis, brainwashing, manipulation, amnesia)

13. Greed

14. Betrayal

15. No stark contrast between “good” and “evil” (characters, forces, emotion, and so on)

16. Expertise triumphs, perhaps rather than “good”

 

List of neo-noir titles:

Bullitt (1968), dir. Peter Yates

Branded to Kill (1967) dir. Seijun Suzuki

Cape Fear (1962), dir. J. Lee Thompson

Dr. Strangelove or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964), dir. Stanley Kubrick

The Manchurian Candidate (1962), dir. John Frankenheimer

 Marlowe (1969) dir. Paul Bogart
The Naked Kiss (1964), dir. Samuel Fuller
Point Blank (1967), dir. John Boorman

Shock Corridor (1963) dir. Samuel Fuller

Underworld U.S.A. (1961), dir. Samuel Fuller

Wait Until Dark (1967), dir. Terence Young

 

The Big Sleep (1978), dir. Michael Winner 

Chinatown (1974), dir. Roman Polanski

Farewell My Lovely (1975), dir. Dick Richards

The Friends of Eddie Coyle (1973), dir. Peter Yates

Get Carter (1971) dir. Mike Hodges

Klute, (1971), dir. Alan J. Pakula

The Long Goodbye (1973) dir. Robert Altman

Night Moves (1975) dir. Arthur Penn

Pulp (1972), dir. Mike Hodges

Taxi Driver (1976), dir. Martin Scorsese

 

After Hours (1985), dir. Martin Scorsese

A Better Tomorrow (1986), dir. John Woo

The Big Easy (1986), dir. Jim McBride

Blade Runner (1982), dir. Ridley Scott

Blood Simple (1984), dir. Joel Coen

Blue Velvet (1986), dir. David Lynch

Body Heat (1981), dir. Lawrence Kasdan

Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid (1982), dir. Carl Reiner

Down by Law (1986), dir. Jim Jarmusch

House of Games (1987), dir. David Mamet

The Long Good Friday (1980) dir. John Mackenzie

Manhunter (1986), dir. Michael Mann

Pennies from Heaven (1981), dir. Herbert Ross

Sea of Love (1989) dir. Harold Becker

Something Wild (1986), dir. Jonathan Demme

Stormy Monday (1988), dir. Mike Figgis

Year of the Dragon (1985), dir. Michael Cimino

 

Angel Heart (1997), dir. Alan Parker

Barton Fink (1991), dir. Joel and Ethan Coen

The Big Lebowski (1998), dir. Joel Coen

Bound (1996), dir. The Wachowski Brothers

Dark City (1998), dir. Alex Proyas

Deep Cover (1992), dir. Bill Duke

Delicatessen (1991), dir. Marc Caro and Jean-Pierre Jeunet

Devil in a Blue Dress (1995), dir. Carl Franklin

Fargo (1996), dir. Joel Coen

Following (1999), dir. Christopher Nolan

Hard Boiled (1992) dir. John Woo

Heat (1995) dir. Michael Mann

Jackie Brown (1997) dir. Quentin Tarantino

Jade (1995) dir. William Friedkin

King of New York (1990) dir. Abel Ferrara

L.A. Confidential (1997), dir. Curtis Hanson

The Last Seduction (1994), dir. John Dahl

Mulholland Falls (1996), dir. Lee Tamahori

Miller’s Crossing (1990), dir. Joel Coen

Palmetto (1998), dir. Volker Schlondorff

A Rage in Harlem (1991) dir. Bill Duke

Red Rock West (1992), dir. John Dahl

Reservoir Dogs (1992) dir. Quentin Tarantino

Romeo Is Bleeding (1993), dir. Peter Medak

Serial Mom (1994), dir. John Waters

Se7en (1995), dir. David Fincher

Silence of the Lambs (1991) dir. Jonathan Demme

State of Grace (1990) dir. Phil Joanou

True Romance (1993) Tony Scott

The Two Jakes (1990), dir. Jack Nicholson

The Usual Suspects (1995), dir. Bryan Singer

U-Turn (1997), dir. Oliver Stone

 

Batman Begins (2005), dir. Christopher Nolan

The Black Dahlia (2006), dir. Brian DePalma

Brick (2006), dir. Rian Johnson

Collateral (2004) dir. Michael Mann

Derailed (2005), dir. Mikael Hafstrom, with Clive Owen and Jennifer Aniston

Femme Fatale (2002), dir. Brian de Palma, with Rebecca Romijn and Antonio Banderas

Gangs of New York (2002), dir. Martin Scorsese

Hollywoodland (2006), dir. Allen Coulter

The Ice Harvest (2005), dir. Harold Ramis

Killshot (2009), dir. John Madden

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005), dir. Shane Black

Memento (2000), dir. Christopher Nolan

Mulholland Drive (2001), dir. David Lynch

Mystic River (2003) dir. Clint Eastwood

Not Forgotten (2009), dir. Dror Soref

Oldboy (2003) dir. Chan-wook Park

Out of Time (2003), dir. Carl Franklin

The Red Riding Trilogy (2009), dirs. Julian Jarrold, James Marsh, Anand Tucker

Sexy Beast (2000), dir. Jonathan Glazer

The Sweeney (2012), dir. Nick Love

Training Day (2001), dir. Antoine Fugua

Zodiac (2007), dir. David Fincher

 

Drive (2011), dir. Nicolas Winding Refn

The Equalizer (2014), dir. Antoine Fuqua

Irrational Man (2015), dir. Woody Allen

Nightcrawler (2014), dir. Dan Gilroy

Shutter Island (2010), dir. Martin Scorsese

Stonehearst Asylum (2014), dir. Brad Anderson

The Town (2010), dir. Ben Affleck

Winter’s Bone (2010), dir. Debra Granik

 

Neo-noirs from abroad:

Amores perros (2001) dir. Alejandro González Iñárritu, from Mexico

El aura (The Aura) (2005), dir. Fabián Bielinsky, from Argentina (France and Spain)

Caché (Hidden) (2005), dir. Michael Haneke, from France

Le cercle rouge (The Red Circle) (1970), dir. Jean-Pierre Melville, from France

La demoiselle d’honneur (The Bridesmaid) (2004 in France), dir. Claude Chabrol, from France

León: The Professional (1994), dir. Luc Besson, from France

The Secret in Their Eyes (2009), dir. Juan José Campanella, from Argentina

Shallow Grave (1995), dir. Danny Boyle, from United Kingdom

Where the Truth Lies (2005), dir. Atom Egoyan, from Canada

Edited by Marianne
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Bullitt (1968)

Directed by Peter Yates

 

 

Peter Yates also directed The Friends of Eddie Coyle, which is a movie I talked about on this thread and just loved. Robert Mitchum is such a joy to see in the role of Eddie Coyle. It's a film I can't recommend enough!

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[[repeat]]

Characteristics borrowed from film noir to define neo-noir and modern neo-noir:

1. Chiaroscuro for black and white films, intense or muted color in movies filmed in color (In either black and white or color, the technique is used to enhance the mood and/or the emotional content.)

2. Flashbacks

3. Unusual narration

4. Crime/planning a crime (usually—but not always—murder)

5. Femme fatale and/or homme fatale

6. The instrument of fate

7. Angst (for example, guilt, fear, self-doubt, confusion, and so on; in other words, anything that contributes to angst)

8. Violence or the threat of violence

9. Urban and nighttime settings

10. Allusion to post–World War II (or any postwar) themes (optional)

11. Philosophical themes (existentialism in particular) involving alienation, loneliness

12. Psychology (hypnosis, brainwashing, manipulation, amnesia)

13. Greed

14. Betrayal

15. No stark contrast between “good” and “evil” (characters, forces, emotion, and so on)

16. Expertise triumphs, perhaps rather than “good”

Edited by Marianne
Link to post
Share on other sites

I am repeating the list of film noir and neo-noir characteristics (borrowings) we have been using to investigate neo-noir. Please use as many or as few characteristics as you like to discuss neo-noir. I started the discussion thread as a way to continue applying what we learned in Dr. Edwards’s course, TCM Presents Into the Darkness: Investigating Film Noir (aka Summer of Darkness: Investigating Film Noir).

 

Also included (below the list of characteristics) is the most up-to-date list of neo-noir films; we have been adding—and continue to add—titles to the list. The running list (divided between U.S. neo-noirs and neo-noirs from abroad) is alphabetized as a whole in case that’s easier for some folks to find what they are looking for. I’m starting to like it better myself, but I can alternate between the film list alphabetized by decade and the list alphabetized in its entirety.

 

Characteristics borrowed from film noir to define neo-noir and modern neo-noir:

1. Chiaroscuro for black and white films, intense or muted color in movies filmed in color (In either black and white or color, the technique is used to enhance the mood and/or the emotional content.)

2. Flashbacks

3. Unusual narration

4. Crime/planning a crime (usually—but not always—murder)

5. Femme fatale and/or homme fatale

6. The instrument of fate

7. Angst (for example, guilt, fear, self-doubt, confusion, and so on; in other words, anything that contributes to angst)

8. Violence or the threat of violence

9. Urban and nighttime settings

10. Allusion to post–World War II (or any postwar) themes (optional)

11. Philosophical themes (existentialism in particular) involving alienation, loneliness

12. Psychology (hypnosis, brainwashing, manipulation, amnesia)

13. Greed

14. Betrayal

15. No stark contrast between “good” and “evil” (characters, forces, emotion, and so on)

16. Expertise triumphs, perhaps rather than “good”

 

List of alphabetized neo-noir titles:

After Hours (1985), dir. Martin Scorsese

Angel Heart (1997), dir. Alan Parker

 

Barton Fink (1991), dir. Joel and Ethan Coen

Batman Begins (2005), dir. Christopher Nolan

A Better Tomorrow (1986), dir. John Woo

The Big Easy (1986), dir. Jim McBride

The Big Lebowski (1998), dir. Joel Coen

The Big Sleep (1978), dir. Michael Winner 

The Black Dahlia (2006), dir. Brian DePalma

Blade Runner (1982), dir. Ridley Scott

Blood Simple (1984), dir. Joel Coen

Blue Velvet (1986), dir. David Lynch

Body Heat (1981), dir. Lawrence Kasdan

Bound (1996), dir. The Wachowski Brothers

Branded to Kill (1967) dir. Seijun Suzuki

Brick (2006), dir. Rian Johnson

Bullitt (1968), dir. Peter Yates

 

Cape Fear (1962), dir. J. Lee Thompson

Chinatown (1974), dir. Roman Polanski

Collateral (2004) dir. Michael Mann

 

Dark City (1998), dir. Alex Proyas

Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid (1982), dir. Carl Reiner

Deep Cover (1992), dir. Bill Duke

Derailed (2005), dir. Mikael Hafstrom

Devil in a Blue Dress (1995), dir. Carl Franklin

Down by Law (1986), dir. Jim Jarmusch

Dr. Strangelove or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964), dir. Stanley Kubrick

Drive (2011), dir. Nicolas Winding Refn

 

The Equalizer (2014), dir. Antoine Fuqua

 

Farewell My Lovely (1975), dir. Dick Richards

Fargo (1996), dir. Joel Coen

Femme Fatale (2002), dir. Brian de Palma

Following (1999), dir. Christopher Nolan

The Friends of Eddie Coyle (1973), dir. Peter Yates

 

Gangs of New York (2002), dir. Martin Scorsese

Get Carter (1971) dir. Mike Hodges

 

Hard Boiled (1992) dir. John Woo

Heat (1995) dir. Michael Mann

Hollywoodland (2006), dir. Allen Coulter

House of Games (1987), dir. David Mamet

 

The Ice Harvest (2005), dir. Harold Ramis

Irrational Man (2015), dir. Woody Allen

 

Jackie Brown (1997) dir. Quentin Tarantino

Jade (1995) dir. William Friedkin

 

Killshot (2009), dir. John Madden

King of New York (1990) dir. Abel Ferrara

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005), dir. Shane Black

Klute, (1971), dir. Alan J. Pakula

 

L.A. Confidential (1997), dir. Curtis Hanson

The Last Seduction (1994), dir. John Dahl

The Long Goodbye (1973) dir. Robert Altman

The Long Good Friday (1980) dir. John Mackenzie

 

The Manchurian Candidate (1962), dir. John Frankenheimer

Manhunter (1986), dir. Michael Mann

Marlowe (1969) dir. Paul Bogart
Memento (2000), dir. Christopher Nolan

Miller’s Crossing (1990), dir. Joel Coen

Mulholland Drive (2001), dir. David Lynch

Mulholland Falls (1996), dir. Lee Tamahori

Mystic River (2003) dir. Clint Eastwood

 

The Naked Kiss (1964), dir. Samuel Fuller

Night Moves (1975) dir. Arthur Penn

Nightcrawler (2014), dir. Dan Gilroy

Not Forgotten (2009), dir. Dror Soref

 

Oldboy (2003) dir. Chan-wook Park

Out of Time (2003), dir. Carl Franklin

 

Palmetto (1998), dir. Volker Schlondorff

Pennies from Heaven (1981), dir. Herbert Ross

Point Blank (1967), dir. John Boorman

Pulp (1972), dir. Mike Hodges

 

A Rage in Harlem (1991) dir. Bill Duke

The Red Riding Trilogy (2009), dirs. Julian Jarrold, James Marsh, Anand Tucker

Red Rock West (1992), dir. John Dahl

Reservoir Dogs (1992) dir. Quentin Tarantino

Romeo Is Bleeding (1993), dir. Peter Medak

 

Sea of Love (1989) dir. Harold Becker

Serial Mom (1994), dir. John Waters

Se7en (1995), dir. David Fincher

Sexy Beast (2000), dir. Jonathan Glazer

Shock Corridor (1963) dir. Samuel Fuller

Shutter Island (2010), dir. Martin Scorsese

Silence of the Lambs (1991) dir. Jonathan Demme

Something Wild (1986), dir. Jonathan Demme

State of Grace (1990) dir. Phil Joanou

Stonehearst Asylum (2014), dir. Brad Anderson

Stormy Monday (1988), dir. Mike Figgis

The Sweeney (2012), dir. Nick Love

 

Taxi Driver (1976), dir. Martin Scorsese

The Town (2010), dir. Ben Affleck

Training Day (2001), dir. Antoine Fugua

True Romance (1993) Tony Scott

The Two Jakes (1990), dir. Jack Nicholson

 

Underworld U.S.A. (1961), dir. Samuel Fuller

The Usual Suspects (1995), dir. Bryan Singer

U-Turn (1997), dir. Oliver Stone

 

Wait Until Dark (1967), dir. Terence Young

Winter’s Bone (2010), dir. Debra Granik

 

Year of the Dragon (1985), dir. Michael Cimino

 

Zodiac (2007), dir. David Fincher

 

Neo-noirs from abroad:

Amores perros (2001) dir. Alejandro González Iñárritu, from Mexico

El aura (The Aura) (2005), dir. Fabián Bielinsky, from Argentina (France and Spain)

 

Caché (Hidden) (2005), dir. Michael Haneke, from France

Le cercle rouge (The Red Circle) (1970), dir. Jean-Pierre Melville, from France

 

Delicatessen (1991), dirs. Marc Caro and Jean-Pierre Jeunet, from France

La demoiselle d’honneur (The Bridesmaid) (2004 in France), dir. Claude Chabrol, from France

 

León: The Professional (1994), dir. Luc Besson, from France

 

The Secret in Their Eyes (2009), dir. Juan José Campanella, from Argentina

Shallow Grave (1995), dir. Danny Boyle, from United Kingdom

 

Where the Truth Lies (2005), dir. Atom Egoyan, from Canada

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I am repeating the list of film noir and neo-noir characteristics (borrowings) we have been using to investigate neo-noir. Please use as many or as few characteristics as you like to discuss neo-noir. I started the discussion thread as a way to continue applying what we learned in Dr. Edwards’s course, TCM Presents Into the Darkness: Investigating Film Noir (aka Summer of Darkness: Investigating Film Noir).

 

Also included (below the list of characteristics) is the most up-to-date list of neo-noir films (especially for neo-noirs from abroad); we have been adding—and continue to add—titles to the list. The list is broken down by decade, and alphabetized within each decade.

 

In the future, I’ll alternate between the neo-noir film list alphabetized by decade and the list alphabetized in its entirety.

 

Characteristics borrowed from film noir to define neo-noir and modern neo-noir:

1. Chiaroscuro for black and white films, intense or muted color in movies filmed in color (In either black and white or color, the technique is used to enhance the mood and/or the emotional content.)

2. Flashbacks

3. Unusual narration

4. Crime/planning a crime (usually—but not always—murder)

5. Femme fatale and/or homme fatale

6. The instrument of fate

7. Angst (for example, guilt, fear, self-doubt, confusion, and so on; in other words, anything that contributes to angst)

8. Violence or the threat of violence

9. Urban and nighttime settings

10. Allusion to post–World War II (or any postwar) themes (optional)

11. Philosophical themes (existentialism in particular) involving alienation, loneliness

12. Psychology (hypnosis, brainwashing, manipulation, amnesia)

13. Greed

14. Betrayal

15. No stark contrast between “good” and “evil” (characters, forces, emotion, and so on)

16. Expertise triumphs, perhaps rather than “good”

 

List of neo-noir titles alphabetized by decade:

Bullitt (1968), dir. Peter Yates

Branded to Kill (1967) dir. Seijun Suzuki

Cape Fear (1962), dir. J. Lee Thompson

Dr. Strangelove or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964), dir. Stanley Kubrick

The Manchurian Candidate (1962), dir. John Frankenheimer

 Marlowe (1969) dir. Paul Bogart
The Naked Kiss (1964), dir. Samuel Fuller
Point Blank (1967), dir. John Boorman

Shock Corridor (1963) dir. Samuel Fuller

Underworld U.S.A. (1961), dir. Samuel Fuller

Wait Until Dark (1967), dir. Terence Young

 

The Big Sleep (1978), dir. Michael Winner 

Chinatown (1974), dir. Roman Polanski

Farewell My Lovely (1975), dir. Dick Richards

The Friends of Eddie Coyle (1973), dir. Peter Yates

Get Carter (1971) dir. Mike Hodges

Klute, (1971), dir. Alan J. Pakula

The Long Goodbye (1973) dir. Robert Altman

Night Moves (1975) dir. Arthur Penn

Pulp (1972), dir. Mike Hodges

Taxi Driver (1976), dir. Martin Scorsese

 

After Hours (1985), dir. Martin Scorsese

A Better Tomorrow (1986), dir. John Woo

The Big Easy (1986), dir. Jim McBride

Blade Runner (1982), dir. Ridley Scott

Blood Simple (1984), dir. Joel Coen

Blue Velvet (1986), dir. David Lynch

Body Heat (1981), dir. Lawrence Kasdan

Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid (1982), dir. Carl Reiner

Down by Law (1986), dir. Jim Jarmusch

House of Games (1987), dir. David Mamet

The Long Good Friday (1980) dir. John Mackenzie

Manhunter (1986), dir. Michael Mann

Pennies from Heaven (1981), dir. Herbert Ross

Sea of Love (1989) dir. Harold Becker

Something Wild (1986), dir. Jonathan Demme

Stormy Monday (1988), dir. Mike Figgis

Year of the Dragon (1985), dir. Michael Cimino

 

Angel Heart (1997), dir. Alan Parker

Barton Fink (1991), dir. Joel and Ethan Coen

The Big Lebowski (1998), dir. Joel Coen

Blink (1994), dir. Michael Apted

Bound (1996), dir. The Wachowski Brothers

Dark City (1998), dir. Alex Proyas

Deep Cover (1992), dir. Bill Duke

Devil in a Blue Dress (1995), dir. Carl Franklin

Fargo (1996), dir. Joel Coen

Following (1999), dir. Christopher Nolan

Hard Boiled (1992) dir. John Woo

Heat (1995) dir. Michael Mann

Jackie Brown (1997) dir. Quentin Tarantino

Jade (1995) dir. William Friedkin

King of New York (1990) dir. Abel Ferrara

L.A. Confidential (1997), dir. Curtis Hanson

The Last Seduction (1994), dir. John Dahl

Mulholland Falls (1996), dir. Lee Tamahori

Miller’s Crossing (1990), dir. Joel Coen

Palmetto (1998), dir. Volker Schlondorff

A Rage in Harlem (1991) dir. Bill Duke

Red Rock West (1992), dir. John Dahl

Reservoir Dogs (1992) dir. Quentin Tarantino

Romeo Is Bleeding (1993), dir. Peter Medak

Serial Mom (1994), dir. John Waters

Se7en (1995), dir. David Fincher

Silence of the Lambs (1991) dir. Jonathan Demme

State of Grace (1990) dir. Phil Joanou

True Romance (1993) Tony Scott

The Two Jakes (1990), dir. Jack Nicholson

The Usual Suspects (1995), dir. Bryan Singer

U-Turn (1997), dir. Oliver Stone

 

Batman Begins (2005), dir. Christopher Nolan

The Black Dahlia (2006), dir. Brian DePalma

Brick (2006), dir. Rian Johnson

Collateral (2004) dir. Michael Mann

Criminal (2004), dir. Gregory Jacobs

Derailed (2005), dir. Mikael Hafstrom

Femme Fatale (2002), dir. Brian de Palma

Gangs of New York (2002), dir. Martin Scorsese

Hollywoodland (2006), dir. Allen Coulter

The Ice Harvest (2005), dir. Harold Ramis

Insomnia (2002), dir. Christopher Nolan

Killshot (2009), dir. John Madden

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005), dir. Shane Black

Memento (2000), dir. Christopher Nolan

Mulholland Drive (2001), dir. David Lynch

Mystic River (2003) dir. Clint Eastwood

Not Forgotten (2009), dir. Dror Soref

Oldboy (2003) dir. Chan-wook Park

Out of Time (2003), dir. Carl Franklin

The Red Riding Trilogy (2009), dirs. Julian Jarrold, James Marsh, Anand Tucker

Sexy Beast (2000), dir. Jonathan Glazer

The Sweeney (2012), dir. Nick Love

Training Day (2001), dir. Antoine Fugua

Zodiac (2007), dir. David Fincher

 

Drive (2011), dir. Nicolas Winding Refn

The Equalizer (2014), dir. Antoine Fuqua

Irrational Man (2015), dir. Woody Allen

Nightcrawler (2014), dir. Dan Gilroy

Shutter Island (2010), dir. Martin Scorsese

Stonehearst Asylum (2014), dir. Brad Anderson

The Town (2010), dir. Ben Affleck

Winter’s Bone (2010), dir. Debra Granik

 

Neo-noirs from abroad:

Amores perros (2001) dir. Alejandro González Iñárritu, from Mexico

Animal Kingdom (2010), dir. David Michôd, from Australia

El aura (The Aura) (2005), dir. Fabián Bielinsky, from Argentina (France and Spain)

 

Black Coal, Thin Ice (2014), dir. Diao Yinan, from China

 

Caché (Hidden) (2005), dir. Michael Haneke, from France

Le cercle rouge (The Red Circle) (1970), dir. Jean-Pierre Melville, from France

The Crimson Rivers (2000), dir. Mathieu Kassovitz, from France

 

Delicatessen (1991), dirs. Marc Caro and Jean-Pierre Jeunet, from France

La demoiselle d’honneur (The Bridesmaid) (2004 in France), dir. Claude Chabrol, from France

Le doulos (1962), dir Jean-Pierre Melville, from France

 

Foreign Land (1996), dirs. Walter Salles and Daniela Thomas, from Brazil

 

La haine (2012), dir. Mathieu Kassovitz, from France

 

I’ll Sleep When I’m Dead (2003), dir. Mike Hodges, from the United Kingdom

In Bruges (2008), dir. Martin McDonagh, from Britain and the United States

Insomnia (1997), dir Erik Skjoldbjær, from Norway

 

Just Another Love Story (2007), dir. Ole Bornedal, from Denmark

 

Kill Me Three Times (2014), dir. Kriv Stenders, from Australia

 

Lantana (2001), dir. Ray Lawrence, from Australia

León: The Professional (1994), dir. Luc Besson, from France

 

Nine Queens (2000), dir. Fabián Bielinsky, from Argentina

 

The Secret in Their Eyes (2009), dir. Juan José Campanella, from Argentina

Shallow Grave (1995), dir. Danny Boyle, from the United Kingdom

The Square (2008), dir. Nash Edgerton, from Australia

 

Thirty Sixth (36th) Precinct (2004), dir. Olivier Marchal, from  France

 

Where the Truth Lies (2005), dir. Atom Egoyan, from Canada

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Down by Law (1986, dir. Jim Jarmusch)

 

The blurb on the back of the DVD from the Criterion Collection states, in part, “Described by director Jim Jarmusch as a ‘neo-beat-noir-comedy,’ Down by Law is part nightmare and part fairy tale . . . .” The film does start out a bit nightmarish, but by the end, I was completely charmed by Roberto and the story. I can’t call Down by Law a neo-noir. I cannot give it more than a 6 on our list of 16 noir characteristics!

 

The film does include some extended time in a cramped prison cell. It does include a jail break. The main characters are on the run from the law for about half the film. Maybe it really is a neo-noir. None of these items are on our list, and I’d be happy to let others convince me!

 

Down by Law is a great film; I can recommend it wholeheartedly. The characters, the plot, the dialogue—all are fantastic. I couldn’t even guess where the plot was headed, and that is a plus for this film.

 

*****Spoilers*****

 

Roberto’s difficulty with the English language is the basis for most of the humor. For example, there’s a very funny scene in the prison cell when he takes out his notepad of English phrases and points out that he knows the word scream in English: I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream. He starts chanting the phrase, Jack and Zack join him, and then all the inmates start chanting the same line over and over again.

 

After the escape from the Orleans Parish Prison, Roberto looks for food in Luigi’s Tin Top and meets Nicoletta. He and Nicoletta fall in love instantly, and Roberto forgets that his two friends Jack and Zack are waiting outside to make sure that the coast is clear (that is, no cops around). They’ve seen nothing but cypress trees and swamp water for days, but they’re worried cops are lurking in this eatery that’s propped by the side of a dirt road. Roberto and the situation are very funny and charming.

 

1. Chiaroscuro for black and white films, intense or muted color in movies filmed in color N/A The film is shot in black and white, but it doesn’t use any other noir film techniques.

2. Flashbacks N/A

3. Unusual narration N/A

4. Crime/planning a crime (usually—but not always—murder) Prostitution, murder, police corruption, auto theft

5. Femme fatale and/or homme fatale N/A

6. The instrument of fate Jack, Zack, and Roberto are bumbling through life. Jack is the victim of fate: He believes Gig wants to make it right between them, and he does go see the new girl that Gig has lines up for Jack’s prostitution business—and gets arrested. Zack is also the victim of fate: He drives a stolen car for a friend and is arrested for murder because there’s a dead body in the trunk, which the police seem to be expecting when they stop him.

7. Angst (for example, guilt, fear, self-doubt, confusion, and so on; in other words, anything that contributes to angst) N/A

8. Violence or the threat of violence N/A

9. Urban and nighttime settings The film was shot on location in Louisiana, and the setting is as much a character as any of the people. It takes place in New Orleans and in the Louisiana bayou. When Gig walks up that long flight of stairs to Jack’s apartment in New Orleans and mops his neck, I swore I could feel the Louisiana heat, too.

10. Allusion to post–World War II (or any postwar) themes (optional) N/A

11. Philosophical themes (existentialism in particular) involving alienation, loneliness Zack and Jack follow separate paths before they are jailed, and neither one of them seems to be making much of a success of themselves in their criminal occupations or in their relationships. Once Zack and Jack are in prison, they are isolated from the rest of the world. When Roberto joins them in their cell, then it’s just the three of them.

12. Psychology (hypnosis, brainwashing, manipulation, amnesia) N/A

13. Greed N/A

14. Betrayal Both Jack and Zack are betrayed by their acquaintances, set up to take the fall in both situations.

15. No stark contrast between “good” and “evil” (characters, forces, emotion, and so on) Jack, Zack, and Roberto are imprisoned for crimes that they did not commit, but they’re hardly angels. Jack is a pimp and Roberto is a gambler and a cheater, but the audience is rooting for all three of them to make their getaway.

16. Expertise triumphs, perhaps rather than “good” N/A

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Blood Simple* (1984)

dir. Joel Coen

 

The film opens with the following narration by Loren Visser (E. Emmet Walsh):

The fact is nothing comes with a guarantee. I don’t care if you’re the Pope of Rome, President of the United States, or man of the year. Something can all go wrong.”

Foreshadowing then or spoiler now. One thing for sure- any crimes committed will not be perfect.

 

When bar owner, Julian Marty (Dan Hedaya) learns that his wife, Abby (Frances McDormand) is having an affair with his bartender, Ray (John Getz) he hires P.I. Loren Visser (E. Emmet Walsh) to do away with both of them.

 

This is the Coen Brothers’ first film. They give us an array of visuals for the senses: sounds for the ears, close-ups for the eyes, music for our mood, and plot twist to keep us thinking.

 

There is a ten minute or so sequence in the film wherein a character cleans up a crime scene and then disposes of a body with minimum dialogue that showcases Joel and Ethan Coen’s brilliance in film making. There was never any doubts, after this film opened, of their creativity and/or imagination.

 

1. Chiaroscuro for black and white films, intense or muted color in movies filmed in color (In either black and white or color, the technique is used to enhance the mood and/or the emotional content.) Yes.

Loren Visser wears a yellow suit with matching hat similar to the one worn by The Man with the Yellow Hat character in the Curious George books that makes for an excellent example of intense color contrast. It literally contrasts with every background he is in front of. Also, there’s the scene of a vegetable field, filmed at night and illuminated with the headlights of an idle automobile that gives the illusion of classic black and white noir- in a neo-noir color film.

 

2. Flashbacks N/A

3. Unusual narration N/A

 

4. Crime/planning a crime (usually—but not always—murder) Yes.

Murder for hire

Theft

 

5. Femme fatale and/or homme fatale Yes.

Abby does not dress nor smile the part, but men do die because of her.

 

6. The instrument of fate Yes.

Just as in the French film Elevator to the Gallows and more recently in Irrational Man, an over-looked item has a fateful affect in the outcome of Blood Simple.

 

7. Angst (for example, guilt, fear, self-doubt, confusion, and so on; in other words, anything that contributes to angst) Yes.

Some characters here are confused by events. They come to the wrong conclusions and their reactions to them complicate matters. The fun is watching their expressions when they become befuddled. They viewer actually knows more than they do.

 

8. Violence or the threat of violence Yes.

Murder

 

9. Urban and nighttime settings Yes.

In an early nighttime scene, we see two people sitting in the front of a car traveling at night, in the rain. The camera sits behind them facing forward, towards the windshield as wipers swing left and right, pushing the heavy rain away. This shot remains on screen for 100 seconds. The opening credits flash dead center between the occupants. The headlights of approaching vehicles, intensify, as they come closer and then a bright flashlight as they go by the car. Very noir!

 

10. Allusion to post–World War II (or any postwar) themes (optional) N/A

 

11. Philosophical themes (existentialism in particular) involving alienation, loneliness Yes.

Every character suffer from some sort existential crisis:

Ray- apathy (he lacks emotion, excitement, passion)

Abby- loneliness (a failed marriage and trouble connecting with boyfriend, Ray.)

Julian Marty- emptiness (socially alienated, no friends, distant)

 

12. Psychology (hypnosis, brainwashing, manipulation, amnesia) N/A

 

13. Greed Yes.

A double-cross ensues motivated by greed.

 

14. Betrayal Yes.

Multiple betrayals occurs. Among them is Abby cheating on her husband with one of his employees and a double-cross that acts as a stab in the back.

 

15. No stark contrast between “good” and “evil” (characters, forces, emotion, and so on) Yes.

Abby never says why she wants to leave her husband. How can Ray not wonder if the same could not happen to him down the road.

Abby to Ray speaking of Marty: He gave me a little pearl-handled .38 for out first anniversary. ...Figured I'd better leave before I used it on him. ...I don't know. Sometimes I think there's something wrong with him. Like maybe he's sick?

 

16. Expertise triumphs, perhaps rather than “good” N/A

 

11 of 16 on our scale. A solid neo-noir from the Coen brothers.

 

*The term blood simple comes from Dashiell Hammett’s Red Harvest- “This damned burg’s getting to me. If I don’t get away soon I’ll be going blood-simple like the natives.”

It refers to the agitated state one may experience when exposed to repetitive acts of violence.

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Lantana (2001, dir. Ray Lawrence)

 

Writing, music (soundtrack), and grief are not on our list of neo-noir characteristics but I’m beginning to think that they should be. Lantana is about betrayal and grief and the effects of both. The strain that the death of a child puts on a marriage leads to more grief in Lantana; the music, which was created specifically for the film, is eerie and haunting. It emphasizes the unease in the characters and creates it for the viewer.

 

I can give the film only 9 out of 16 on our list of neo-noir characteristics, but I would still call Lantana a neo-noir. I thought it was wonderful when I saw it in the theater 14 years ago, which is just long enough for me to have forgotten many of the twists and turns in the plot. I enjoyed watching it on DVD now for the second time.

 

1. Chiaroscuro for black and white films, intense or muted color in movies filmed in color (In either black and white or color, the technique is used to enhance the mood and/or the emotional content.) N/A (not applicable)

2. Flashbacks N/A

3. Unusual narration The narration is a bit unusual, but it’s hard to know or to explain why that is without seeing the film or giving away the plot.

4. Crime/planning a crime (usually—but not always—murder) Murder (it’s more like everyone and anyone is a suspect), missing person.

5. Femme fatale and/or homme fatale N/A

6. The instrument of fate Everyone’s lives intersect in some way. It sounds like an unusual plot device at first, but some of the characters do know each other. It’s the viewer who is the newcomer, and it’s the missing person who seems to draw everyone into the center of the story.

7. Angst (for example, guilt, fear, self-doubt, confusion, and so on; in other words, anything that contributes to angst) Leon Zat, the cop investigating the woman’s disappearance, is feeling numb, and he admits as much later in the film. But he starts to feel doubt, worry, and angst when he realizes what might be happening to his marriage. The musical score creates unease in the viewer for most of the film.

8. Violence or the threat of violence The film opens with a pan into the brush and the camera’s “discovery” of a woman’s dead body. From that point onward, almost anything can happen. The music throughout accentuates the unease.

9. Urban and nighttime settings Nighttime settings are used to advantage, and so is the vegetation. The dead body at the beginning of the film is caught in vegetation.

10. Allusion to post–World War II (or any postwar) themes (optional) N/A

11. Philosophical themes (existentialism in particular) involving alienation, loneliness Some of the characters converse briefly about very profound situations; one in particular is the loss of a child to murder. The emotions ripple outward to create alienation and loneliness. The difficulty in dealing with grief has a direct effect on the plot and some of the characters’ actions.

12. Psychology (hypnosis, brainwashing, manipulation, amnesia) N/A

13. Greed N/A

14. Betrayal This entire film is about betrayal and grief.

15. No stark contrast between “good” and “evil” (characters, forces, emotion, and so on) Everyone has secrets in this film. The only characters who don’t have secrets seem to be the children, but even one of them lies to keep his family together.

16. Expertise triumphs, perhaps rather than “good” N/A

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Lantana (2001, dir. Ray Lawrence)

 

Writing, music (soundtrack), and grief are not on our list of neo-noir characteristics but I’m beginning to think that they should be. Lantana is about betrayal and grief and the effects of both. The strain that the death of a child puts on a marriage leads to more grief in Lantana; the music, which was created specifically for the film, is eerie and haunting. It emphasizes the unease in the characters and creates it for the viewer.

 

I can give the film only 9 out of 16 on our list of neo-noir characteristics, but I would still call Lantana a neo-noir. I thought it was wonderful when I saw it in the theater 14 years ago, which is just long enough for me to have forgotten many of the twists and turns in the plot. I enjoyed watching it on DVD now for the second time.

 

1. Chiaroscuro for black and white films, intense or muted color in movies filmed in color (In either black and white or color, the technique is used to enhance the mood and/or the emotional content.) N/A (not applicable)

2. Flashbacks N/A

3. Unusual narration The narration is a bit unusual, but it’s hard to know or to explain why that is without seeing the film or giving away the plot.

4. Crime/planning a crime (usually—but not always—murder) Murder (it’s more like everyone and anyone is a suspect), missing person.

5. Femme fatale and/or homme fatale N/A

6. The instrument of fate Everyone’s lives intersect in some way. It sounds like an unusual plot device at first, but some of the characters do know each other. It’s the viewer who is the newcomer, and it’s the missing person who seems to draw everyone into the center of the story.

7. Angst (for example, guilt, fear, self-doubt, confusion, and so on; in other words, anything that contributes to angst) Leon Zat, the cop investigating the woman’s disappearance, is feeling numb, and he admits as much later in the film. But he starts to feel doubt, worry, and angst when he realizes what might be happening to his marriage. The musical score creates unease in the viewer for most of the film.

8. Violence or the threat of violence The film opens with a pan into the brush and the camera’s “discovery” of a woman’s dead body. From that point onward, almost anything can happen. The music throughout accentuates the unease.

9. Urban and nighttime settings Nighttime settings are used to advantage, and so is the vegetation. The dead body at the beginning of the film is caught in vegetation.

10. Allusion to post–World War II (or any postwar) themes (optional) N/A

11. Philosophical themes (existentialism in particular) involving alienation, loneliness Some of the characters converse briefly about very profound situations; one in particular is the loss of a child to murder. The emotions ripple outward to create alienation and loneliness. The difficulty in dealing with grief has a direct effect on the plot and some of the characters’ actions.

12. Psychology (hypnosis, brainwashing, manipulation, amnesia) N/A

13. Greed N/A

14. Betrayal This entire film is about betrayal and grief.

15. No stark contrast between “good” and “evil” (characters, forces, emotion, and so on) Everyone has secrets in this film. The only characters who don’t have secrets seem to be the children, but even one of them lies to keep his family together.

16. Expertise triumphs, perhaps rather than “good” N/A

 

I saw this film some years ago. Your write-up here has brought it back to me as if I have just seen it again.  [Lantana is about betrayal and grief and the effects of both.] It is exactly that! I definitely want to see this film again. If I may say so, this was fun to read. Thanks.

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Farewell, My Lovely (1975, dir. Dick Richards)

 

Maybe I’ll go through our list of 16 noir characteristics when I see Farewell, My Lovely a second time because I really want to see it a second time. It was wonderful to see Robert Mitchum as Philip Marlowe. He makes a great PI, even if he wasn’t a young man in 1975. Plus he sings! And pretty well, too. Mitchum is definitely one of my favorites. One of my favorite movie lines is his (from a different movie, His Kind of Woman): “No, I’m not busy, Corely. (Pause. Mitchum’s on the phone.) No, I was just getting ready to take my tie off. (Shorter pause) Wondering if I should hang myself with it.”

 

But it was really odd watching a movie made in 1975 but depicting the 1940s (1941, in particular). Farewell, My Lovely used 1940s period sets, costumes, props, cars, but it still felt like I was watching a film that didn’t know what era it was in. The 1940s/1970s mix was a little jarring on first viewing, at least for me. Heck, it took me several minutes just to get used to the color. I must be watching the world—not just films noir—in black and white these days.

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Training Day (2001)

Dir. Antoine Fuqua

 

Training Day sees officer Jake Hoyt (Ethan Hawke) greatly wanting to join a Narcotics unit, believing it the quickest way to becoming a detective and thereby securing a career. Det. Sgt. Alonzo Harris, ( Denzel Washington) head of such a unit, invites Jake to join him for a day.

 

Alonzo Harris: Today’s a training day, Officer Hoyt. Show you around, give you a taste of the business. I got 38 cases pending trial, 63 in active investigations, another 250 on the log I can’t clear. I supervise five officers. That’s five different personalities. Five sets of problems. You can be number six if you act right. But I ain’t holding no hands, you understand- I ain’t baby-sitting. You got today and today only to show me who and what you’re made of. You don’t like narcotics, get out of my car. Go back to the office, get you a nice, desk job, you know, chasing bad checks or something, you hear me?

 

Shortly after, Officer Hoyt, sits inside an unmarked car with Det. Sgt. Harris, smoking PCP under extreme duress. This will not be an ordinary training day.

 

1. Chiaroscuro for black and white films, intense or muted color in movies filmed in color (In either black and white or color, the technique is used to enhance the mood and/or the emotional content.) N/A

2. Flashbacks N/A

3. Unusual narration N/A

 

4. Crime/planning a crime (usually—but not always—murder) Yes.

Conspiracy

Drug sale

Robbery

Heist

Murder

Police misconduct involving phony warrant

 

5. Femme fatale and/or homme fatale N/A

 

6. The instrument of fate Yes.

Officer Hoyt stops a violent rape from occurring because he was in the right place at the right time. This deed proves life-saving later.

 

7. Angst (for example, guilt, fear, self-doubt, confusion, and so on; in other words, anything that contributes to angst) Yes.

Officer Hoyt, who is married and has an infant daughter, fears that his dream of ever becoming a detective is falling apart, as Det. Sgt. Harris continues to push the envelope. Their crime-spree-escapade escalates at each stop, eventually leading to murder and with officer Jake on the brink of death. Every step of the way, officer Jake struggles with ethical issues such as what is right and wrong, moral and immoral, legal and illegal.

Det. Sgt. Harris: Give me 18 months, I'll give you a career. We make the big seizures, Jake. We make the big arrests. But if you're in my unit, you gotta be in it all the way or not at all, you understand me? I thought that you was man enough to handle this. I guess I was wrong.

Officer Hoyt: You've been planning this all day?

Det. Sgt. Harris: I've been planning it all week, son.

 

8. Violence or the threat of violence Yes.

Murder

Armed robbery

 

9. Urban and nighttime settings Yes.

This urban police drama has the backdrop of criminal activities in the decaying streets and housing complexes of certain Los Angeles gang-infested communities.

 

10. Allusion to post–World War II (or any postwar) themes (optional) N/A

 

11. Philosophical themes (existentialism in particular) involving alienation, loneliness Yes.

Det. Sgt. Harris is a nihilist disregarding laws, morality, and decency.

 

12. Psychology (hypnosis, brainwashing, manipulation, amnesia) Yes.

Det. Sgt. Harris’s high voltage assertiveness gives rise to a fearless, brazen bully. Officer Hoyt’s reactions to Harris’s abusive tactics have him fearful of crossing him. He therefore allows himself to be manipulated into making both career and life changing decisions.

 

13. Greed Yes.

Greed, but not for money, rather for power.

 

14. Betrayal Yes.

Det. Sgt. Harris betrays his badge, his department and his responsibility to lead by example. He commits petty crimes, serious crimes and felonies with impunity. Definitely a rogue cop.

 

15. No stark contrast between “good” and “evil” (characters, forces, emotion, and so on) Yes.

Det. Sgt. Harris appears at first to be a highly successful and effective supervisor in a Narcotic Unit. Later it turns out he is actually a cold-blooded killer who never exhibits redeeming qualities.

 

16. Expertise triumphs, perhaps rather than “good” N/A

 

10 of 16 I would say it is a worthy addition to our list of neo noir films.

 

Denzel Washington received his second Oscar for this performance.

 

The film is well written and directed.

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Out of the Past: Podcast for Batman Begins (dir. Christopher Nolan)

 

Batman Begins made it to our list of neo-noir films, so I listened a couple of times to Edwards’s and Clute’s podcast of Christopher Nolan’s Batman Begins (2005) at Out of the Past: Investigating Film Noir podcast (Episode 3, July 15, 2005). You can listen to it at

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/a/a/b/aab75b4126fb2f1b/OOTP_2005_07_15_BB.mp3?c_id=2059924&expiration=1447896336&hwt=2094d1264c60d8bef5a2c93021733ed4. If the link is deleted, do an online search for Out of the Past: Investigating Film Noir, and scroll all the way down to Episode 3.

 

(I posted almost the same post at the Out of the Past Podcast: Official Discussion Topic thread.)

 

Richard Edwards and Shannon Clute seem to agree with reviews at the time (in 2005, when the movie came out) that Batman Begins had a lot of noir characteristics. The podcast includes a discussion of what it means to apply the term film noir to modern films. I particularly like the discussion of the literary origins of film noir, and character-driven noir versus visually driven noir. All the Batman movies, in particular, finds their origins in the comic book. Edwards’s and Clute’s discussion is certainly applicable to this discussion thread about neo-noir.

 

Clute and Edwards make several great points about the noir features of Batman Begins:

• Christian Bale is one of the best “Batmen.” He is a noir character that is driven by his past, something that he cannot let go.

• Nolan respects his literary source and doesn’t turn the film into a bubblegum blockbuster.

He turned to John Huston (noir) and David Lean (action epic) for inspiration. Batman Begins is combination of the two.

• A post-9/11 Batman: One who lives in a society whose people live with fear; he is something to be feared, and he has his own fears; if you instill fear in a populace, it will destroy itself. (Given the recent news about the November 2015 attacks in Paris, France, and the December 2015 attacks in San Bernardino, California, this discussion is again pertinent, sad to say.)

• The lead is a noir character in the person of Batman. The film is centered on a conflicted hero and does not emphasize the villains.

• Gotham is a German expressionist city: could have been a setting from Fritz Lang’s Metropolis.

• Falcone’s speech to Bruce Wayne about corruption and his control of power is straight out of Raymond Chandler.

 

They also point out the following not-so-noir details about Batman Begins:

• No femme fatale (a wholesome love interest instead).

• Protagonist starts out ambiguous but is redeemed before the end of the film.

 

I just can’t imagine a film noir or a neo-noir with a main character who dresses up in a costume to fight crime. It’s too far beyond of the realm of film noir for me. I haven’t seen Metropolis, so I don’t know how close the sets for that film are to the urban sets for Batman Begins. The subway/monorail, which is a main feature of the Gotham cityscape in Batman Begins, looked too futuristic for me to think of it as noir. The interior of the subway cars looked shabby and were covered with graffiti, but that’s not terribly noir either as far as I can tell. In fact, the urban settings in the film seemed to be making more of a political statement in showing the differences between haves and have-nots. Batman’s futuristic car and his sophisticated rappelling equipment also don’t come under the category of noir for me.

 

So, yes, Batman Begins has a lot of noir characteristics, but the Batman suit and the futuristic settings, plus the science-fiction gadgets and machines, just didn’t add up to neo-noir for me. I enjoyed Batman Begins, and it has plenty of noir characteristics, just as Clute and Edwards describe, but it still has a main character fighting crime in a costume. It is a fun movie; in fact, I wanted more gadgets and machines.

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So, yes, Batman Begins has a lot of noir characteristics, but the Batman suit and the futuristic settings, plus the science-fiction gadgets and machines, just didn’t add up to neo-noir for me. I enjoyed Batman Begins, and it has plenty of noir characteristics, just as Clute and Edwards describe, but it still has a main character fighting crime in a costume. It is a fun movie; in fact, I wanted more gadgets and machines.

 

 

I was watching Batman: The Animated Series (1992-95) during the Christmas holiday (there's an x-mas episode) and I was in awe of all the physical characteristics that make the cartoon a true noir. The chiaroscuro/muted colors, the angles, etc. This was an animation more for adults than kids.

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I was watching Batman: The Animated Series (1992-95) during the Christmas holiday (there's an x-mas episode) and I was in awe of all the physical characteristics that make the cartoon a true noir. The chiaroscuro/muted colors, the angles, etc. This was an animation more for adults than kids.

 

I often feel that Bugs Bunny cartoons are more for adults! I watched them and loved them when I was a kid, but when I watch them as an adult, I'm often surprised by how many of them contain jokes that only adults, especially contemporaries of the era in which the cartoons were produced, would understand. A good example, one I saw in the last few months, is "Slick Hare" (1947).

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Sea of Love (1989)

dir. Harold Becker

 

This film falls short of neo noir status. It receives just 4 of 16.

 

Two men are each found fatally shot in the back of the head while lying faced down in their beds, naked. Detectives Frank Keller (Al Pacino) and Sherman Touhey (John Goodman) believe the murderer is a woman who answered their singles ads. Having lifted matching fingerprints from both crime scenes, they set up a sting, in hopes of catching her. Their plan is to place an ad of their own in anticipation of luring her in.

Among the many that respond is Helen Cruger (Ellen Barkin) dressed in black and wearing a short red leather jacket, looking the femme fatale type. In this first meeting, they fail to secure her prints- but there will be other opportunities.

 

It is difficult to believe that Sea of Love was intended as a neo noir. Except for the few motifs listed below, the film is a straight forward thriller-mystery. But it fails at that too. We expect crime-mystery films to be solved by good police work, not gift wrapped and hurled at us out of the blue.

 

The dialogue was awkward at times-

Frank: I’m gonna have to be airlifted to a standing position.. . . You made it to the kitchen, you made coffee- you come in here- what are you superman?

Helen: Wonder Woman.

Frank: Yeah? What do you wonder about?

Helen: I wonder how we made it through last night in one piece.

 

7. Angst (for example, guilt, fear, self-doubt, confusion, and so on; in other words, anything that contributes to angst) Yes.

Detective Keller fears for his life in a few scenes. His paranoid perception that Helen Gruger is a threat to him, leads to brief moments of anxiety.

 

8. Violence or the threat of violence Yes.

Murder

 

9. Urban and nighttime settings Yes.

 

14. Betrayal Yes.

Det. Keller continues to investigate Helen’s involvement in a series of murders while having a romantic love affair with her.

 

* * * *

By 1989, Al Pacino had received numerous awards and multiple Oscar nominations. Also, the film's writer, Richard Price, had written The Wanderers and The Color of Money among others.

 

I had a favorable view of the film, the first time around, not so, this time. Perhaps the focus on detecting noir elements, revealed distracting features this second time around.

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I am repeating the list of film noir and neo-noir characteristics (borrowings) we have been using to investigate neo-noir. Please use as many or as few characteristics as you like to discuss neo-noir. I started the discussion thread as a way to continue applying what we learned in Dr. Edwards’s course, TCM Presents Into the Darkness: Investigating Film Noir (aka Summer of Darkness: Investigating Film Noir).

 

Also included (below the list of characteristics) is the most up-to-date list of neo-noir films; we have been adding—and continue to add—titles to the list. The running list (divided between U.S. neo-noirs and neo-noirs from abroad) is alphabetized as a whole in case that’s easier for some folks to find what they are looking for. I will alternate between the film list alphabetized by decade and the list alphabetized in its entirety.

 

Characteristics borrowed from film noir to define neo-noir and modern neo-noir:

1. Chiaroscuro for black and white films, intense or muted color in movies filmed in color (In either black and white or color, the technique is used to enhance the mood and/or the emotional content.)

2. Flashbacks

3. Unusual narration

4. Crime/planning a crime (usually—but not always—murder)

5. Femme fatale and/or homme fatale

6. The instrument of fate

7. Angst (for example, guilt, fear, self-doubt, confusion, and so on; in other words, anything that contributes to angst)

8. Violence or the threat of violence

9. Urban and nighttime settings

10. Allusion to post–World War II (or any postwar) themes (optional)

11. Philosophical themes (existentialism in particular) involving alienation, loneliness

12. Psychology (hypnosis, brainwashing, manipulation, amnesia)

13. Greed

14. Betrayal

15. No stark contrast between “good” and “evil” (characters, forces, emotion, and so on)

16. Expertise triumphs, perhaps rather than “good”

 

List of alphabetized neo-noir titles:

After Hours (1985), dir. Martin Scorsese

Angel Heart (1997), dir. Alan Parker

 

Barton Fink (1991), dir. Joel and Ethan Coen

Batman Begins (2005), dir. Christopher Nolan

A Better Tomorrow (1986), dir. John Woo

The Big Easy (1986), dir. Jim McBride

The Big Lebowski (1998), dir. Joel Coen

The Big Sleep (1978), dir. Michael Winner 

The Black Dahlia (2006), dir. Brian DePalma

Blade Runner (1982), dir. Ridley Scott

Blink (1994), dir. Michael Apted

Blood Simple (1984), dir. Joel Coen

Blue Velvet (1986), dir. David Lynch

Body Heat (1981), dir. Lawrence Kasdan

Bound (1996), dir. The Wachowski Brothers

Branded to Kill (1967) dir. Seijun Suzuki

Brick (2006), dir. Rian Johnson

Bullitt (1968), dir. Peter Yates

 

Cape Fear (1962), dir. J. Lee Thompson

Chinatown (1974), dir. Roman Polanski

Collateral (2004), dir. Michael Mann

Criminal (2004), dir. Gregory Jacobs

 

Dark City (1998), dir. Alex Proyas

Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid (1982), dir. Carl Reiner

Deep Cover (1992), dir. Bill Duke

Derailed (2005), dir. Mikael Hafstrom

Devil in a Blue Dress (1995), dir. Carl Franklin

Down by Law (1986), dir. Jim Jarmusch

Dr. Strangelove or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964), dir. Stanley Kubrick

Drive (2011), dir. Nicolas Winding Refn

 

The Equalizer (2014), dir. Antoine Fuqua

 

Farewell, My Lovely (1975), dir. Dick Richards

Fargo (1996), dir. Joel Coen

Femme Fatale (2002), dir. Brian de Palma

Following (1999), dir. Christopher Nolan

The Friends of Eddie Coyle (1973), dir. Peter Yates

 

Gangs of New York (2002), dir. Martin Scorsese

Get Carter (1971) dir. Mike Hodges

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (2011), dir. David Fincher

 

Hard Boiled (1992) dir. John Woo

Heat (1995) dir. Michael Mann

Hollywoodland (2006), dir. Allen Coulter

House of Games (1987), dir. David Mamet

 

The Ice Harvest (2005), dir. Harold Ramis

Insomnia (2002), dir. Christopher Nolan

Irrational Man (2015), dir. Woody Allen

 

Jackie Brown (1997) dir. Quentin Tarantino

Jade (1995) dir. William Friedkin

 

Killshot (2009), dir. John Madden

King of New York (1990) dir. Abel Ferrara

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005), dir. Shane Black

Klute, (1971), dir. Alan J. Pakula

 

L.A. Confidential (1997), dir. Curtis Hanson

The Last Seduction (1994), dir. John Dahl

The Long Goodbye (1973) dir. Robert Altman

The Long Good Friday (1980) dir. John Mackenzie

 

The Manchurian Candidate (1962), dir. John Frankenheimer

Manhunter (1986), dir. Michael Mann

Marlowe (1969) dir. Paul Bogart
Memento (2000), dir. Christopher Nolan

Miller’s Crossing (1990), dir. Joel Coen

Mulholland Drive (2001), dir. David Lynch

Mulholland Falls (1996), dir. Lee Tamahori

Mystic River (2003) dir. Clint Eastwood

 

The Naked Kiss (1964), dir. Samuel Fuller

Night Moves (1975) dir. Arthur Penn

Nightcrawler (2014), dir. Dan Gilroy

Not Forgotten (2009), dir. Dror Soref

 

Oldboy (2003) dir. Chan-wook Park

Out of Time (2003), dir. Carl Franklin

 

Palmetto (1998), dir. Volker Schlondorff

Pennies from Heaven (1981), dir. Herbert Ross

Point Blank (1967), dir. John Boorman

Pulp (1972), dir. Mike Hodges

 

A Rage in Harlem (1991) dir. Bill Duke

The Red Riding Trilogy (2009), dirs. Julian Jarrold, James Marsh, Anand Tucker

Red Rock West (1992), dir. John Dahl

Reservoir Dogs (1992) dir. Quentin Tarantino

Romeo Is Bleeding (1993), dir. Peter Medak

 

Sea of Love (1989) dir. Harold Becker

Serial Mom (1994), dir. John Waters

Se7en (1995), dir. David Fincher

Sexy Beast (2000), dir. Jonathan Glazer

Shock Corridor (1963) dir. Samuel Fuller

Shutter Island (2010), dir. Martin Scorsese

Silence of the Lambs (1991) dir. Jonathan Demme

Something Wild (1986), dir. Jonathan Demme

State of Grace (1990) dir. Phil Joanou

Stonehearst Asylum (2014), dir. Brad Anderson

Stormy Monday (1988), dir. Mike Figgis

The Sweeney (2012), dir. Nick Love

 

Taxi Driver (1976), dir. Martin Scorsese

The Town (2010), dir. Ben Affleck

Training Day (2001), dir. Antoine Fugua

True Romance (1993) Tony Scott

The Two Jakes (1990), dir. Jack Nicholson

 

Underworld U.S.A. (1961), dir. Samuel Fuller

The Usual Suspects (1995), dir. Bryan Singer

U-Turn (1997), dir. Oliver Stone

 

Wait Until Dark (1967), dir. Terence Young

Winter’s Bone (2010), dir. Debra Granik

 

Year of the Dragon (1985), dir. Michael Cimino

 

Zodiac (2007), dir. David Fincher

 

Neo-noirs from abroad:

Amores perros (2001) dir. Alejandro González Iñárritu, from Mexico

Animal Kingdom (2010), dir. David Michôd, from Australia

El aura (The Aura) (2005), dir. Fabián Bielinsky, from Argentina (France and Spain)

 

Black Coal, Thin Ice (2014), dir. Diao Yinan, from China

 

Caché (Hidden) (2005), dir. Michael Haneke, from France

Le cercle rouge (The Red Circle) (1970), dir. Jean-Pierre Melville, from France

The Crimson Rivers (2000), dir. Mathieu Kassovitz, from France

 

Delicatessen (1991), dirs. Marc Caro and Jean-Pierre Jeunet, from France

La demoiselle d’honneur (The Bridesmaid) (2004 in France), dir. Claude Chabrol, from France

Le doulos (1962), dir Jean-Pierre Melville, from France

 

Foreign Land (1996), dirs. Walter Salles and Daniela Thomas, from Brazil

 

The Girl Who Kicked the Hornets’ Nest (2009), dir. Daniel Alfredson, from Sweden

The Girl Who Played with Fire (2009), dir. Daniel Alfredson, from Sweden

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (2009), dir. Niels Arden Oplev, from Sweden

 

La haine (2012), dir. Mathieu Kassovitz, from France

 

I’ll Sleep When I’m Dead (2003), dir. Mike Hodges, from the United Kingdom

In Bruges (2008), dir. Martin McDonagh, from Britain and the United States

Insomnia (1997), dir Erik Skjoldbjær, from Norway

 

Just Another Love Story (2007), dir. Ole Bornedal, from Denmark

 

Kill Me Three Times (2014), dir. Kriv Stenders, from Australia

 

Lantana (2001), dir. Ray Lawrence, from Australia

León: The Professional (1994), dir. Luc Besson, from France

 

Ne le dis à personne (Tell No One) (2006), dir. Guillaume Canet, from France

Nine Queens (2000), dir. Fabián Bielinsky, from Argentina

 

The Secret in Their Eyes (2009), dir. Juan José Campanella, from Argentina

Shallow Grave (1995), dir. Danny Boyle, from the United Kingdom

The Square (2008), dir. Nash Edgerton, from Australia

 

Thirty-Sixth (36th) Precinct (2004), dir. Olivier Marchal, from France

Tirez sur le pianiste (Shoot the Piano Player) (1960), dir. François Truffaut, from France

 

Where the Truth Lies (2005), dir. Atom Egoyan, from Canada

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Sea of Love (1989)

dir. Harold Becker

 

This film falls short of neo noir status. It receives just 4 of 16. . . .

 

It is difficult to believe that Sea of Love was intended as a neo noir. Except for the few motifs listed below, the film is a straight forward thriller-mystery. But it fails at that too. We expect crime-mystery films to be solved by good police work, not gift wrapped and hurled at us out of the blue.

 

The dialogue was awkward at times-

Frank: I’m gonna have to be airlifted to a standing position.. . . You made it to the kitchen, you made coffee- you come in here- what are you superman?

Helen: Wonder Woman.

Frank: Yeah? What do you wonder about?

Helen: I wonder how we made it through last night in one piece. . . .

 

I had a favorable view of the film, the first time around, not so, this time. Perhaps the focus on detecting noir elements, revealed distracting features this second time around.

 

 

I remember liking Sea of Love when I first saw it, too, but reading those lines of dialogue . . . . Ouch! I almost (almost) want to see it again just to find out why I think I liked it!

 

Maybe I'll give it a try when I can finally forget ". . . You made it to the kitchen, you made coffee, you come in here. What are you, Superman?" But looks like it's going to be a long wait.

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Sea of Love (1989)

dir. Harold Becker

 

This film falls short of neo noir status. It receives just 4 of 16.

 

 

I'm curious...approximately how many of the 16 would be required to meet the definition of neo-noir? Would it be possible to remove a film from the list if it falls well short of that number?

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HEYMOE, on 30 Dec 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:snapback.png

 

Sea of Love (1989)

dir. Harold Becker

 

This film falls short of neo noir status. It receives just 4 of 16.

 

I'm curious...approximately how many of the 16 would be required to meet the definition of neo-noir? Would it be possible to remove a film from the list if it falls well short of that number?

 

I don't plan to remove films from the list. We are expressing our opinions here, and I'd like to continue adding to the list so that more people might participate in this discussion thread.

 

So when I post the list to repeat it for convenience, it might be longer but never shorter.

 

Marianne

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I'm curious...approximately how many of the 16 would be required to meet the definition of neo-noir? Would it be possible to remove a film from the list if it falls well short of that number?

 

The thread's creator, Marianne, appropriately answered your second question, regarding removing films from the list.

 

As to your first question, regarding the percentage required to meet the definition of neo-noir, the simple answer is- a simple majority. Although, I think it is a bit more than that.

 

The thread wishes to define and recognize neo-noir films and allow its followers to assess the lists of 16 and encourage participation.*

The lists are each individual's observations and opinion and never meant to be an authoritative declaration.

 

A 13 of 16 rating for example, is not proof positive that a film is neo-noir, but it is the first step towards identifying it as such.

 

The 4 of 16 rating for the film referred to in your post is only an observation and opinion. All followers of the thread are encouraged here to post their ratings on any of the films listed. The first step.

 

With volume, comes consensus.

 

*Posted 22 August 2015 - 11:09 AM - by Marianne:

“. . . We’re working on defining neo-noir and all its subcategories and on compiling a list of neo-noir movies. I hope the discussion includes reactions to seeing some of the movies.”

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Thank you for the clarification HeyMo. I didn't mean to imply that we should remove a film from the list (I see how it could be read that way), but rather because a film received such a low rate, would it risk being pulled from the list. Poor wording on my part.

 

I had only asked because Sea of Love so far has been the first/only film to receive such a low rating and didn't know what the process was thereafter. 

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