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what's with all the WWII naval films later on tonite?


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The last time this series was on, there was a 1-hour documentary about how the Nazis formed in the 1920s and eventually took over the government.

 

About 15 minutes of this documentary was taken directly from the best parts of Leni Riefenstahl's TRIUMPH OF THE WILL, with NO credit given to her for directing, editing, scoring, and photographing this great documentary. This was the BEST PART of the 1-hour show. She should have been given full credit for her fine film work. But she wasn't. The U.S. Army team and some American male director took all the credit.

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The last time this series was on, there was a 1-hour documentary about how the Nazis formed in the 1920s and eventually took over the government.

 

About 15 minutes of this documentary was taken directly from the best parts of Leni Riefenstahl's TRIUMPH OF THE WILL, with NO credit given to her for directing, editing, scoring, and photographing this great documentary. This was the BEST PART of the 1-hour show. She should have been given full credit for her fine film work. But she wasn't. The U.S. Army team and some American male director took all the credit.

Fred that documentary was not made for entertainment purposes it was shown during the Nuremberg trials to help convict Nazi War Criminals. I am sorry it wasn't entertaining or an amazing Piece of film technique like Triumph of the Will but that was hardly the point of it.

 

Yes they took Images from Nazi propaganda films like Triumph Of the Will to prove their case against the Nazis. So Leni was very much given credit for that work albeit maybe not the credit she wanted.

 

As for the American director, George Stevens he was one of the first people to enter the camps (Dachau) to be exact and filmed everything he saw and experienced. From the sounds of it, TCM didn't show all that footage. But I think George Stevens understood first hand why this documentary was important and he was the right person to make it.

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Fred that documentary was not made for entertainment purposes it was shown during the Nuremberg trials to help convict Nazi War Criminals. I am sorry it wasn't entertaining or an amazing Piece of film technique like Triumph of the Will but that was hardly the point of it.

 

Yes they took Images from Nazi propaganda films like Triumph Of the Will to prove their case against the Nazis. So Leni was very much given credit for that work albeit maybe not the credit she wanted.

 

As for the American director, George Stevens he was one of the first people to enter the camps (Dachau) to be exact and filmed everything he saw and experienced. From the sounds of it, TCM didn't show all that footage. But I think George Stevens understood first hand why this documentary was important and he was the right person to make it.

 

My point was, the good photography, editing, producing, camera set-ups, were those of Leni Riefenstahl,

and NOT those of George Stevens. What we saw was HER FILM, not HIS. They refused to show his film to us, for whatever reason. Ask TCM. I assume they were considered to be too gross to put on the air at TCM. Anyway, that was George Stevens' film THAT THEY DID NOT SHOW. What they DID show was Leni Riefenstahl's film, but George Stevens was given the full credit for it.

 

And keep in mind that it was HER FILM, TRIUMPH OF THE WILL, and not any of Stevens's films, that caused the US and Britain to start making plans for an all-out war in Europe with Germany. We are lucky our military people had her film to study as early as 1934-35.

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By the way, the most frightening man I ever met in my life was not a K-lan member, he was not a serial killer of the usual kind, he was not a hoodlum or a mafia member or a German cameraman. No, he was Wernher von Braun, who tested his rockets by dropping them on people in downtown London. I was just 3 feet away from him and he put out a frightening aura. It freaked me out because he was working with NASA when I met him, but I grew up seeing him in old Nazi newsreels about the V-2 rockets he made and sent over to bomb London.

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My point was, the good photography, editing, producing, camera set-ups, were those of Leni Riefenstahl,

and NOT those of George Stevens. What we saw was HER FILM, not HIS. They refused to show his film to us, for whatever reason. Ask TCM.

 

And keep in mind that it was HER FILM, TRIUMPH OF THE WILL, that caused the US and Britain to start making plans for an all-out war in Europe with Germany. We are lucky our military people had her film to study as early as 1934-35.

And you seemed to completely miss MY point or the point of those documentaries.

 

George Stevens and the army were not taking credit for Leni's work they were using Nazi propaganda to make a case against Nazi War Criminals. They weren't praising the film's production work they were horrified by its content. And it was that content (among other things) that was used to convict war criminals. Of course they were going to take one of the most notable uses of Nazi propaganda to prove their point.

 

Stevens never claimed that the Nazi propaganda in the films was his. Although why Stevens would want to make Nazi propaganda film I am a bit unsure.

 

However you do seem to miss what I am praising Stevens for. I am not praising him for his film technique, I am praising the fact that he stayed and did his duty and filmed one of the most horrific things in history so future generations would not forget. I find that more remarkable than Leni's amazing film technique.

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However you do seem to miss what I am praising Stevens for. I am not praising him for his film technique, I am praising the fact that he stayed and did his duty and filmed one of the most horrific things in history so future generations would not forget. I find that more remarkable than Leni's amazing film technique.

 

I think we might be talking about two different things. TCM should have given Leni the credit, but i am certain that Ben doesn't know enough about the subject to know what to say about it.

 

He said more about the half of the film he did NOT show than about the half he did show.

 

You are talking about a lot of film we did not see. A lot of film that was cut out and not shown by TCM. I'm talking about the 15 or 20 minutes of the well edited an well photographed film that we did see.

 

Ben was talking about something he did not even show us. While he showed us Leni's film, which contains nothing anyone could be sent to jail for. Can someone be sent to jail for "good editing"?

 

Hey, I thought TCM "does not cut" its films?? So where is the other half of George Stevens overall film? The stuff from the prison camps that Ben talked so much about??  TCM cut half of the film out of the program, or, perhaps, the distributor cut half of it out. Anyway, we saw Leni's film, not George Stevens' film.

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I think we might be talking about two different things. TCM should have given Leni the credit, but i am certain that Ben doesn't know enough about the subject to know what to say about it.

 

He said more about the half of the film he did NOT show than about the half he did show.

 

Hey, I thought TCM "does not cut" its films?? So where is the other half of George Stevens film? The stuff from the prison camps?? TCM cut half of the film out of the program, or, perhaps, the distributor cut half of it out. Anyway, we saw Leni's film, not George Stevens' film.

I think the stuff from the prison camps is freely available on the Internet Archive. You may be right that TCM did not show it because of its difficult subject manner.

 

But what I am saying about Leni's work is Nazi Propaganda films were taken and compiled into a documentary to be used as evidence for the Nuremberg trials. So that's what you are seeing.

 

Triumph of the Will is so famous that I think most people back then knew where that footage came from and I am pretty sure TCM does too.

 

Note the Why we Fight documentaries were are also compiled from other sources not filmed directly by Capra.,

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PBS did a 2-hour documentary about her, in the late 1990s. I was amazed. I grew up and went through life never hearing anything at all about her, until she turned up on the Today Show interview. I was amazed to see that she was a woman. And then, a few years later, TCM aired both Olympia films and Triumph of the Will and I was amazed to see her techniques used for the first time in any film. Such as putting a camera on top of an extended ladder on a fire truck rolling in one of the street parades. It was a high rolling shot from within the parade itself. And all sorts of other stuff that is now common in some documentaries, and every Olympics TV show uses her techniques, such as the little camera that runs on a rail along side the track runners. The camera keeps up with the runners. She thought of that in 1936.

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PBS did a 2-hour documentary about her, in the late 1990s. I was amazed. I grew up and went through life never hearing anything at all about her, until she turned up on the Today Show interview. I was amazed to see that she was a woman. And then, a few years later, TCM aired both Olympia films and Triumph of the Will and I was amazed to see her techniques used for the first time in any film. Such as putting a camera on top of an extended ladder on a fire truck rolling in one of the street parades. It was a high rolling shot from within the parade itself. And all sorts of other stuff that is now common in some documentaries, and every Olympics TV show uses her techniques, such as the little camera that runs on a rail along side the track runners. The camera keeps up with the runners. She thought of that in 1936.

https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/marie-claire/news-and-views/celebrity/a/5887743/leni-riefenstahl-nazi-or-not/

 

I remember seeing those documentaries and was so impressed that I obtained Triumph of the Will from either PBS or Amazon.

 

For those who felt they missed out on something here is a link to Stevens'

Nazi Concentration Camps (1945) documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLjOvxsMefU

 

Perhaps TCM felt they needed to shelter us from this, but Ben made a point of addressing it so we could find and see it if we felt the need to do so.

It is one of those things sickening images that, sadly, we do need to see, to know what really happened, and realize what atrocities human beings are capable of. As someone else has said, perhaps by viewing it we can prevent it from ever happening again....

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