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Stephan55

Dissappearing Posts and Threads

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What I like to say about things like that is..... "Well, it's Germany around 1933."

 

A year or so later, after more changes, I might say, "Well, now it's Germany around 1936."

 

And then, of course, later, "It's Germany around 1938 or 39."

 

All of this meaning.... things are getting worse and worse.

 

Now that is a solid allegory, Fred.

I knew that you knew!  ;)  

 

BTW, did you get my little French nudge, a few posts back? :)

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By the way, 20th Century Fox made CHARLIE CHAN AT THE OLYMPICS, with Warner Oland, in 1937, and it showed the American government cooperating with German officials (local Berlin policemen) to try to find some “foreign” spy who was trying to steal some kind of American secret weapon.

 

There were some German newsreel scenes in that Fox film, including scenes of Jesse Owen, and scenes of black American actress Theresa Harris, who was at the Olympics with the American support group, saying some nice things about Jesse, as they showed films of Jesse running.

 

So get this: 20th Century Fox used German newsreel footage for their own Berlin-Olympics-promoting film that was released in 1937. There is even a scene of the Olympics torch bearer running down some steps, with about 200 Germans on the side, giving him the Nazi salute. So why do people attack Leni for her Olympic films, but they don’t attack Fox for theirs, even though the Fox film shows American government officials cooperating with Germany government officials?

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Now that is an a solid allegory, Fred.

I knew that you knew!  ;)  

 

BTW, did you get my little French nudge, a few posts back? :)

 

I use different historical data to estimate the years. For example, a Jewish friend of mine in California told me how he and his family escaped Germany around 1938, by bribing some German official. They lost their house and other property, but they were able to get a lot of German Marks out stuffed in a locked suitcase. They fled to Argentina. He told me his father thought the money would never make it back to them, but when he picked up his suitcases in Argentina, the money was still in it!!

 

Eventually they migrated to China, when he was about 12 years old, and he learned to speak English in China, and today he speaks English with a Chinese accent. This is a very unusual accent, and quite rare.

 

But just imagine, knowing someone who actually did successfully escape, and so late too. He said other members of his extended family never made it out. They died in the concentration camps. He was so lucky. A few months later and his family would have not made it out either.

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By the way, 20th Century Fox made CHARLIE CHAN AT THE OLYMPICS, with Warner Oland, in 1937, and it showed the American government cooperating with German officials (local Berlin policemen) to try to find some “foreign” spy who was trying to steal some kind of American secret weapon.

 

There were some German newsreel scenes in that Fox film, including scenes of Jesse Owen, and scenes of black American actress Theresa Harris, who was at the Olympics with the American support group, saying some nice things about Jesse, as they showed films of Jesse running.

 

So get this: 20th Century Fox used German newsreel footage for their own Berlin-Olympics-promoting film that was released in 1937. There is even a scene of the Olympics torch bearer running down some steps, with about 200 Germans on the side, giving him the Nazi salute. So why do people attack Leni for her Olympic films, but they don’t attack Fox for theirs, even though the Fox film shows American government officials cooperating with Germany government officials?

Very Valid points, Fred

 

But.... (the proverbial "but")

 

Memory can be very selective, politically and otherwise.

Today's "allies" can be tomorrows "enemies," and yesterdays "enemies" can be today's "friends"...  

Except when it come to Leni, that is. ;)

 

I fondly remember Peter Lorre in those Mr. Moto movies from the mid-late 1930's. There were several, also produced by Fox, with Moto as a Japanese secret agent on the side of righteous right against corruption and evil.

Those movies mysteriously vanished during the war years, and briefly appeared on commercial television when I was a kid.

Wish TCM would air them.

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I use different historical data to estimate the years. For example, a Jewish friend of mine in California told me how he and his family escaped Germany around 1938, by bribing some German official. They lost their house and other property, but they were able to get a lot of German Marks out stuffed in a locked suitcase. They fled to Argentina. He told me his father thought the money would never make it back to them, but when he picked up his suitcases in Argentina, the money was still in it!!

 

Eventually they migrated to China, when he was about 12 years old, and he learned to speak English in China, and today he speaks English with a Chinese accent. This is a very unusual accent, and quite rare.

 

But just imagine, knowing someone who actually did successfully escape, and so late too. He said other members of his extended family never made it out. They died in the concentration camps. He was so lucky. A few months later and his family would have not made it out either.

That is a Great story!

Wish there were about six million more just like it....

 

I always (well, since becoming a "mature" adult, anyway) get a kick from listening to someone who actually experienced history, as opposed to just regurgitating what someone else wrote about it...

First hand eyewitness accounts can really put flesh and blood on those old bones.

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We're getting very off-topic by bringing Leni Reifenstahl into this thread too.

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We're getting very off-topic by bringing Leni Reifenstahl into this thread too.

au contraire, dear Bogie,  

The thread is about forms of "censorship" in general, and "censorship" within these boards in particular.  

Leni, could be a poster child for political censorship, and therefore aptly applies as an example of the first category.

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I need to depart for awhile, will be back later, hopefully this thread will still be here when I return...

In the meantime, please continue to dialogue with civility, children, we wouldn't want mom or pop to hear us and turn out the lights!   :)

ciao!

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I fondly remember Peter Lorre in those Mr. Moto movies from the mid-late 1930's. There were several, also produced by Fox, with Moto as a Japanese secret agent on the side of righteous right against corruption and evil.

Those movies mysteriously vanished during the war years, and briefly appeared on commercial television when I was a kid.

Wish TCM would air them.

 

TCM has aired about three different Mr Moto films.

 

YT has a copy of CHARLIE CHAN AT THE OLYMPICS. Its very interesting. The Berlin Police are the big heroes of the film. 1936-37. With some real newsreel footage of the 36 Berlin Olympics.

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au contraire, dear Bogie,  

The thread is about forms of "censorship" in general, and "censorship" within these boards in particular.  

Leni, could be a poster child for political censorship, and therefore aptly applies as an example of the first category.

"Disappearing posts and threads" ??

This isn't about scheduling.

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au contraire, dear Bogie,  

The thread is about forms of "censorship" in general, and "censorship" within these boards in particular.  

Leni, could be a poster child for political censorship, and therefore aptly applies as an example of the first category.

 

The Sunday edition of the L.A. Times had a book review of the Dietrich and Reifenstahl book Hollywood,  Berlin and a Century in Two Lives.    

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"Disappearing posts and threads" ??

This isn't about scheduling.

You are quite right Bogie, I did err and stray from the topic of my own thread a bit.

Sorry about that.... please forgive me. :wub:

I cannot think of a specific example where scheduling, per se reflects censorship.... unless I was thinking along the lines that those old Mr. Moto films went temporaily "out of circulation" because Japan was our enemy during WW2, and promoting an Austro-Hungarian playing a Japanese secret agent as a "hero" at that time would most likely have been construed as being "anti-American".

 

I do think though, that "Disappearing posts and threads"  too often (especially on these boards) equates to a form of censorship, so with that in mind, using Leni Reifenstahl as an example of politicized censorship is not that far off base.

 

Sticking closer to home.

Though I've not yet experienced a case where one of my few threads has been locked or deleted, I can think of times where a few of my posts have been "edited" and even completely deleted by the Moderator, sometimes with no explanation at all!

While I can make my own assumptions as to why such occurred, I would think, if for no other reason than common courtesy, that when a Moderator determines to "alter" or delete a post that some sort of explanation be given as to why. If not in the thread itself, at least via a private email to the poster's account.

 

If that had occurred in my case, I likely would not have initiated this thread at all!

 

I will be a little more specific, in my most recent experience, in someone elses thread, I posted links to some public domain videos that were directly related to the subject matter of the thread.

Without giving away any "spoiler" content, I posted a clear warning that those video's were "not for the squeamish". Not only were the links deleted, but my entire post vanished without any explanation.  

 

What I believe ocurred is that someone (either another board member, or just the Moderator), glanced at one of the videos, was "offended" by what they saw, and determined that no one else should be allowed to see it either.

That act of censorship is reflective of so many things we see and hear (and don't see or hear) today, that I was very "offended" that it had occurred, especially upon my favorite movie board, and especially without any explanation at all!

 

Does anyone have a similar personal anecdote that they would care to share?

 

BTW, I am pleasantly surprized that this thread is still here. So far we have evidently NOT ruffled any sensitive feathers.

I am still hoping that the all-seeing moderator eyes will be see fit to enter the discourse. That is if they are permitted to do so within the capacity of an informed person, and not just a censor?

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One of these days I'm gonna have to watch that 'Triumph of the Will' thing. I keep hearing that it's the most monstrously great propaganda film of all time. Sounds like something I should see before I die.

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One of these days I'm gonna have to watch that 'Triumph of the Will' thing. I keep hearing that it's the most monstrously great propaganda film of all time. Sounds like something I should see before I die.

Especially if you are into the art and history of documentary film making. It was a milestone.

With all of the negative hoopla, we are fortunate to still have it to see at all!

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A good companion piece or double feature item, to such propaganda on film as Leni's "Triumph of the Will" would be "Jud Suss" from around 1940, Darkblue.

Though I own "Triumph of the Will" I've only seen the other film once [which was requisitioned by Goebbels I believe] but I think it is much more inflammatory than Reifenstahl's.

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One of these days I'm gonna have to watch that 'Triumph of the Will' thing. I keep hearing that it's the most monstrously great propaganda film of all time. Sounds like something I should see before I die.

In some ways it is the greatest horror movie of all time.  Near perfect in that regard.

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It is scary with all the night scenes with people walking with giant Nazi banners and candlelight vigils.

 

What is the most interesting aspect of it for me, is that all Hitler's speeches are subtitled, which you never usually see in documentaries about him.

 

He is actually a rather dynamic speaker when one can see what he is actually saying, even though what he is saying is powerfully evasive and cryptic in many ways

 

Reifenstahl films many scenes though with a moving camera worthy of a great rock documentary, showing crowd scenes way bigger than Woodstock and interplay with Nazi folk like Goebbels, Goering, Hess, **** and others.
 

Apparently Hitler only allowed people with surnames starting with "G" or "H" to ascend the ladder.

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Just had a thought to remedy the "problem" (as some see it) with duplicate threads.

Rather than delete all but perhaps the most "popular" one. Why not just combine all of the "lesser" threads into the most popular one, with a brief MOD announcement note explaining just that.

i.e. "Due to duplicate threads on the same topic threads (titles A & B ) have been combined in chronological posting order into thread (title C)."

That way, those who posted within those alternate threads, and the viewers who read them, will still have access to all of the "wit & wisdom" imparted.  

 

Good idea?

Yes?

No?

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He is actually a rather dynamic speaker when one can see what he is actually saying, even though what he is saying is powerfully evasive and cryptic in many ways

 

 

If you watch TRIUMPH OF THE WILL and turn off the sound entirely, and read all the English subtitles that translate each of Hitler’s speeches. You will read typical political speeches, just like the kind we hear in the US every day..... “We’ll make Germany great again! We’ll put everyone to work. We’ll build a lot of good stuff (highways, cars, etc). Nobody will go hungry. Every German family will be happy. We’ll all work together to achieve this goal, and we’ll make the New Germany last a thousand years!!”

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The Sunday edition of the L.A. Times had a book review of the Dietrich and Reifenstahl book Hollywood,  Berlin and a Century in Two Lives.    

 

I read the book review. The person who wrote it apparently knew nothing about how to make documentary films, or how to shoot them, edit them, score them, etc.

 

The author said of Leni: "She wanted to direct movies, and leaped at Nazi funding."

 

The writer said nothing about Wernher von Braun leaping at Nazi funding to the extent that he killed 3,000 British citizens while testing his rocket bombs by dropping them on downtown London, then later he lept at NASA funding and was turned into a hero in America.

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If you watch TRIUMPH OF THE WILL and turn off the sound entirely, and read all the English subtitles that translate each of Hitler’s speeches. You will read typical political speeches, just like the kind we hear in the US every day..... “We’ll make Germany great again! We’ll put everyone to work. We’ll build a lot of good stuff (highways, cars, etc). Nobody will go hungry. Every German family will be happy. We’ll all work together to achieve this goal, and we’ll make the New Germany last a thousand years!!”

Chilling

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Chilling

 

The first week I had the film, I watched it 3 times. The first time was live on TCM, I watched mainly the film and read only a few of the sub titles. The second time was a few days later when I turned off the sound entirely and read every sub title in the film. The third time I watched it, I read no sub titles and I only watched the film itself.

 

Then the next week I began studying the film scene by scene, studying the editing, especially the edit-to-music sequences, and I studied the camera work, such as that wonderful "sea of flags" scene, and the scenes with the basket going up and down. Being a documentary cameraman myself, I could tell which sequences Leni reenacted so she could get close ups of faces, when she couldn't get them at the actual rally.

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This is from the basket, looking to the left...........

 

Leni%2BRiefenstahl%2BTriumph%2Bof%2Bthe%

 

 

And this is from the basket, looking to the right.........

 

snapshot20060911205604.jpg

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I think it was on the PBS documentary, in the 1990s, when she said that she had about 45 cameramen working on shooting this film, because some had to be at the stadium, some had to be downtown to film the parade, others filmed the airplane arriving, and others film the youth "boy scout" type of campgrounds early in the morning, and there were night scenes too. So she had to hire cameramen from all over Germany. I doubt if she shot anything, but she worked out the overall set-up and locations for all the cameras, plus a long list of exactly what to film and when. 45 cameras eat up a lot of film, and that it why it took her about a year to edit the film before it was released.

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If you watch TRIUMPH OF THE WILL and turn off the sound entirely, and read all the English subtitles that translate each of Hitler’s speeches. You will read typical political speeches, just like the kind we hear in the US every day..... “We’ll make Germany great again! We’ll put everyone to work. We’ll build a lot of good stuff (highways, cars, etc). Nobody will go hungry. Every German family will be happy. We’ll all work together to achieve this goal, and we’ll make the New Germany last a thousand years!!”

P.T. Barnum is wrongfully credited with saying, "There's a sucker born every minute."

But whoever actually did say it was an astute observer of a very painful aspect of human nature.

When we fail to learn from past mistakes, or remain unlearned of the previous generation/s acquired wisdom, we are generationally bound to forever repeat the same errors of the past. Again, again, and again...

There is always someone being born, who will believe the same lies tomorrow, that you learned the hard way not to believe today."

 

And wasn't it Joseph Goebbels, Reich Minister of Propaganda, who said, If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

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