msladysoul Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 We have our icons of classic movies, names and faces that are personifications of classic movies, names that are household names like Joan Crawford, Marilyn Monroe, Cary Grant, Humphrey Bogart, Katharine Hepburn, Mae West, Bette Davis, Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers, Judy Garland. These are names I knew before I became a fan of classic movies. When I got into classic movies I tried to get into these legends but I couldn't, it seems I became a fan of the underdogs, the unsung talents, the ones who were big in their time but forgotten today. It seems the classic movie industry, researchers, and writers want to keep the icons mentioned above always in the public's eye, (their popularity grows more and more) instead of giving lesser known but deserving ones their recognition. Is it business or favortism? The icons have plenty left to keep them remembered forever, personally and professionally, the ones forgotten seem to be forgotten because they have left nothing behind and haven't told their stories. Kay Francis for instance was one of the top female movie stars of the 1930's alongside Norma Shearer and Joan Crawford but no one knows Kay much today. I find Kay more fascinating than Crawford and Shearer. I would pick Barbara Stanwyck over Bette Davis anyday. It's like this when people throw someone in your face and you constantly hear and see them, naturally, they'll grow on you and you'll start thinking their the only talents. I wish they would throw ones in my face I know nothing about. Today, you got researchers and writers who can take a forgotten actress and make them a legend. Are there any movie stars you'd feel should be household names and why? Have you ever question why some are household names more than others and why? My list of ones who should be household names.... Kay Francis, Joan Blondell, Barbara Stanwyck, Ann Sothern, Ann Sheridan, Nina Mae McKinney, Nancy Carroll, Myrna Loy, and Dick Powell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsart2too2 Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 I hear what you're saying and I can relate to having long known the names of certain ones way before I'd ever seen any of their work. It took me a few years to work out for myself if I truly liked Bette Davis, for instance, for her work and skill or because she was *Bette Davis*. (I've come to the conclusion I do like her work!) There are some "legends" that I believe you either had to really "be there" (era-wise) to understand the hype - or simply be left thinking it must have been hype. But that could be just me on those particlur people and I just don't get them. I adore Greer Garson and wish her name came to everyone's mind (no matter their age) as instantly as Hepburn or others when you say "legend" or "movie great". By the way, I like your list of household names... and they are in my household! And definitely on the household names list should be plenty of "character" actors/actresses - sometimes they "made" the movie! What would Gone With the Wind be like without Hattie McDaniel and Butterfly McQueen?! Message was edited by: itsart2too2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddysprimadonna Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 One of the differences between the classic stars that are remembered today and those that are almost forgotten is the movies. Most of the greats are remembered not just for being big stars, but for appearing in great films. I love Kay Francis, but she never made a truly great film -- even her finest work doesn't belong on anyone's best movies list. Same for Blondell, Stanwyck, Loy, etc. That's true,although I don't feel that Myrna Loy or Barbara Stanwyck can be classified as "forgotten gems", they are both quite famous. Myrna Loy,for example,will always be legendary for the "Thin Man" series, and she was in at least one great film,"The Best Years Of Our Lives". But for the rest, I agree with you. The greats are "hyped", because they were great-as actors,for the films they appeared in,etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominick Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Madeline Kahn, she may be gone but could never ever be forgotten a truely screen legend and an original comediac movie star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
April Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I think Barbara Stanwick is a household name......Double Indemnity and Titanic were two of her most memorable. In double Indemnity she showed how bad she was by wearing an anklet...a sure sign of a loose woman in those days. In Titanic her co-star was Clifton Webb and her performance was wonderful. particularly when she realizes her son was left on the ship. She actually cried real tears as she thought of the sadness of it all....What an actress! I also love Richard Widmark for his body of work, Sidney Poitier....the first black man to win an academy award, and I loved Alec Guiness for his choice of black comedy roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvel88 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I'd love to see a boxed set of the Andy Hardy series. Also a box set of Greer Garson would be lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark96me Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Actually Barbara Stanwyck was very good in many of her movies. My favorite being No Man of Her Own. She and the movie as a whole are excellent. If you get a chance to ever see it, I truly recommend it. I recently re-acquired my copy from a friend, that had mine. He had for about 4 years, so I was very excited to get it back! Showed it to other friends that loved it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipper Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I have to agree about Barbara Stanwyck. "Stella Dallas," "The Lady Eve," "Ball of Fire," "Meet John Doe," and "Sorry, Wrong, Number" are all classics as well. And don't forget the perennial Christmas fave, "Christmas in Connecticut." I think what really makes Barbara Stanwyck a household name, however, and ask about anyone if they know who Barbara Stanwyck is and they'll usually say, "Ah, yes, the lady on "The Big Valley!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cash5562 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Great idea for a subject, but I beleive you are very mistaken if you beleive that Babara Stanwyck is not well known. I would say that she is one of the five biggest stars of all time, and Double Indemnity is a true classic. I would like to add a few names to your list. How about Van Heflin, Robert Ryan, Alan Ladd, Sterling Hayden, and Montgomery Clift. A couple of females, Ida Lupino, Gene Tierney, and in my opinion the most underrated of them all Jean Arthur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albatros1 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Almost all of the people were household names in their own time. Francis and Powell in the 30's, Stanwyck, Tierney and Arthur in the 40's, and Ladd in the 50's. How many of you saw "Double Indemnity" a in a theater when it was released? I thought so. They may not be well so well known today but that's what you would expect. I didn't know a lot of the famous silent film stars when I was growing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamTherapy Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Hiya classicB&W. I remember, as a lad, I used to note in TVGuide that 'B&W' meant 'black and white." How curious a recollection for an American lad, given the history of those colours in this nation, and the notion of nostalgia. But I digress before I begin. //Are there any movie stars you'd feel should be household names and why? Have you ever question why some are household names more than others and why?// I regard the notion of 'household naming' (along with name-dropping) as something contemptible in its tabloidesque-inspired connotation; therefore, I don't think anyone, let alone a "star" should be such a creature. I do, though, have a high regard for certain actors, whom I wish the masses would share my affinity for (and do, in some instances), due to the actors' acting abilities and/or to the dynamical quality of the actors' charismas. Here be my list, then (in no particular order; although, there are discernible, occasional trains-of-thought) . . . A work in progress Who should be: 01) my self B-) 02) Katharine Hepburn 03) Spencer Tracy 04) William Powell 05) Jean Harlow 06) Kay Francis 07) Ann Harding 08) Kay Kendall 09) Cary Grant 10) Warren William 11) Joan Blondell 12) Stanley Kubrick 13) Anthony Hopkins 14) Martin Scorsese 15) Quentin Tarantino 16) William Friedkin 17) David Lean 18) Myrna Loy 19) Edna May Oliver 20) Kelsey Grammer 21) Rowan Atkinson 22) Dawn French 23) Jennifer Saunders 24) David Bowie 25) Clark Gable 26) Frank Capra 27) Jean Arthur 28) P.T. Anderson 29) Tim Burton 30) Raul Julia 31) Richard Dix 32) Greta Garbo 33) James Cagney 34) The Coen Brothers 35) Jeff Bridges 36) Steve Buscemi 37) Frances McDormand 38) Spike Lee 39) Otto Kruger 40) Edward Norton 41) David Lynch 42) Gloria Swanson 43) William Holden 44) Bette Davis 45) Joan Crawford 46) Jack Nicholson 47) Judy Garland 48) Mickey Rooney 49) Ava Gardner 50) Virginia Grey 51) Margaret O'Brien 52) Mary Astor 53) Alfred Hitchcock 54) Van Johnson 55) Walter Pidgeon 56) Greer Garson 57) Wallace Beery 58) John Barrymore 59) Lionel Barrymore 60) James Stewart 61) Edward Arnold 62) Busby Berkeley 63) Sean Connery 64) Lon Chaney 65) Norma Shearer 66) Edward G. Robinson 67) Robert Taylor 68) Rosalind Russell 69) Marilyn Monroe 70) Howard Hughes 71) Natalie Cole 72) Gene Raymond 73) Lee Tracy 74) Basil Rathbone 75) Humphrey Bogart 76) Paul Lukas 77) Johnny Depp 78) Peter Sellers 79) Woody Allen 80) Michael Powell 81) Emeric Pressburger 82) Peter O'Toole 83) Marlon Brando 84) Robert Mitchum 85) Deborah Kerr 86) John Garfield 87) Hedy Lamarr 88) Raymond Massey 89) Gary Cooper 90) Ward Bond 91) Patricia Neal 92) George C. Scott 93) David Cronenberg 94) Christopher Walken 95) Jeremy Irons 96) Ingrid Bergman 97) Isabella Rossellini 98) Dean Stockwell 99) Patricia Ellis 100) Claudette Colbert 101) Kevin Kline 102) Robert DeNiro 103) Harvey Keitel 104) Meryl Streep 105) Fred Astaire 106) Ginger Rogers 107) Frank Sinatra 108) Bing Crosby 109) Bob Hope 110) Marlene Dietrich 111) Kim Novak 112) Lewis Stone 113) Lana Turner 114) Kathryn Grayson 115) W.S. Van Dyke 116) Thomas Mitchell 117) Fredric March 118) Victor Fleming 119) Rouben Mamoulian 120) Brian DePalma 121) Russell Crowe 122) Derek Jacobi 123) Tom Hanks 124) Steven Spielberg 125) John Cassavetes 126) Gena Rowlands 127) Susan Sarandon 128) Ralph Meeker 129) Brad Pitt 130) Alfred Molina 131) Gary Oldman 132) Ralph Fiennes 133) Irene Dunne 134) Fritz Lang 135) Tod Browning 136) F.W Murnau 137) Bruno Ganz 138) Wim Wenders 139) Howard Hawks 140) William Wellman 141) Michael Curtiz 142) Clint Eastwood 143) Don Siegel 144) Mervyn LeRoy 145) Roy Del Ruth 146) Willem DaFoe . . . others Who Should Not Be: 01) Tom Cruise 02) Bruce Willis 03) Meg Ryan 04) Val Kilmer 05) Andrew Clay 06) Dorothy Lamour 07) Will Smith 08) Esther Williams 09) Sergio Leone 10) Laurence Olivier 11) John Wayne 12) Vivien Leigh 13) Kevin Costner 14) Mel Gibson 15) Dennis Weaver 16) Orlando Bloom 17) Ernest Borgnine 18) Charles Bronson 19) George Kennedy 20) Telly Savalas 21) Barry Levinson 22) Toby McGuire . . . others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayresorchids Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I'd be willing to bet that if you'd given your phone number, plenty of people would be on the Ameche to complain about your lower list, Sam! Are you an actor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
movieman1957 Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Interesting lists. Not many people would put Mr. Bean and Hitchcock together. I largely agree with your first list but I would move a few from the bottom to the top. Your list is broad and well thought out. I enjoy your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vecchiolarry Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Hi Sam, I mostly agree with you!! My changes would be: List 1) -- Martin Scorcese, Spike Lee and david Cronenberg -- all overrated in my opinion. Frank Sinatra -- I detest him (personal) P.T. Anderson -- who?, I've never heard of him/her..... I'd add Angela Lansbury to List 1 List 2) -- Dorothy Lamour and Vivien Leigh -- what's wrong with them?? Larry Message was edited by: vecchiolarry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarhfive Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 SamTherapy, Honestly, a cursory look over your lists and my upper lip began to curl into the sneer. After a studious examination of the lists, my sneer turned to admiration: ...Kubrick...Coen Brothers...Kay Francis...Lee Tracy...David Lynch...David Bowie... Very good! A carefully considered post! Only because he dominates my Netflix queue and he comes immediately to mind, might I add the terrific (and prolific) French actor "Jean Gabin"? Rusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
path40a Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Interesting list and, of course, controversial (as all such lists tend to be). I would remove LOTS from your "should be" list (particularly if they're in order of importance) and completely disagree with several of those you chose to include on your "shouldn't be" list, most notably: 09) Sergio Leone 10) Laurence Olivier 11) John Wayne 12) Vivien Leigh 17) Ernest Borgnine 18) Charles Bronson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarhfive Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 SamTherapy, "Raul Julia"... His name reminded me to "Suggest-A-Movie" for "Kiss of the Spider Woman". Hey...TCM, how about it? Rusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pktrekgirl Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Interesting list. Although you did scare me for a minute, until I read the bit about them not being in any particular order and I didn't see Bogie until #75! Anyway, my amendments: Add to list #1 (forgive if some of these are actually on there - it was a long list!): Charles Boyer Audrey Hepburn Lauren Bacall Rock Hudson Montgomery Clift Omar Sharif Gregory Peck Elizabeth Taylor Alec Guinness Move from list#1 to list #2: Kelsey Grammar Russell Crowe Spike Lee Brad Pitt There would probably be other changes if I went through my Wishlist on TiVo...but I'm too lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamTherapy Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Ayres //on the Ameche// ??? I like Don Ameche. Just feel he doesn't belong on either list -- his an 'in-betweener'. movieman //I enjoy your posts.// Thakns, mm; back atchya! Dontchya see Bean (or Adder), given the chance, supplying us with Hitchcockian cinema? :-) vecchiolarry I'm curious to know: in what sense do you regard Scorsese, Lee and Cronenberg as overrated. Have you seen Mean Streets, 25th Hour and The Dead Zone, respectively (and for starters ;-) ) I absolutely agree with you, though: Lansbury is included in List #1. B-) //Dorothy Lamour and Vivien Leigh -- what's wrong with them??// Nothing whatsoever; just, personally, didn't regard them as "household names" vis-?-vis the post's enquiry. I like Leigh, and, having just seen The Hurricane I have a higher regard for Lamour, but still do not think she warrants "household name" status. jahrfive Thanks, for your admiration; it is nice to know a (presumeably?) kindred spirit. You darn me with faint praise! :-) I did indeed take my choice uner consideration. Yet . . . . . . you are quite correct: Gabin definitely deserves to be include dans ma liste premi?re. path40 //particularly if they're in order of importance// They are definitely not in any order save fir the occasional train-of-thought (e.g. Tracy / Hepburn & Powell/ Harlow) And . . . I have, apologetically, retracted Ford and Lamour from the second list. Intelligence allows for change . . . and all that. And those whom I have relegated to 'non-household name' status does not suggest that they are not personas of quality, but rather that they are overrated, in my opinion. trekgirl Thanks -- all of your additions are duly noted, with the exception of Omar & Rock. I shouldn't have missed the others; thanks! Again, I do not dis regard some of these folks (with the exception of Clay), it's just that, despite whomever's ability, I just don't think they warrant (per b&w's original post) "household-name status." And (just for arguments-sake): Grammer's comedic ability, and Crowe's range are, both, considerable, in my opinion. And, in my opinion, Lee's direction and production is quite exceptional; I'm curious to know what about it you disregard. Thanks,all. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vecchiolarry Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Hi Sam, Re: Lamour and Leigh -- Your reasoning is perfectly understandable. I just thought you disliked them for some reason, but can see you don't. Good! Re: Scorsese, Lee and Cronenberg -- No, I have not seen any of those films you mentioned as I have a personal preference for non-violence. I did see "The History of Violence" and it was good for its genre but I didn't care for it. As you will notice I said, 'in my opinion' in my post. But, my opinion doesn't make you wrong or me right; it just is...... You are perfectly entitled to your list and opinion and I will defend your right to have them even though we don't agree... Good lists, Sam... Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msladysoul Posted January 21, 2006 Author Share Posted January 21, 2006 Thanks classic movie fans for your replies. I have to disagree Barbara Stanwyck isn't a household name, maybe us classic movie fans know her but the average American don't know her, if you went on the street and asked a few people they wouldn't but they know Marilyn Monroe, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, and mind you, most haven't even seen their films. Marlene Dietrich isn't a household name either, but its arguable, maybe she's becoming a household name. Someone said Dorothy Lamour was a household name, I didn't know her until I got into classic movies, most don't even know her. Stanwyck, Lamour, Dietrich don't get the build up and hype like Monroe, Davis, and Crawford do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamTherapy Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Hiya Larry, I too respect your opinion on those directors, and you are right when it comes to violence, for although it does attract me on some level (in films, that is), when it is presented necessarily to a plot (not gratuitously), I nevertheless recognise that attraction as a product of the culture which I was born into, and how violence is so commercialised and promoted in that culture. Subsequently, like I think I hear you saying, I can do without it (and probably should do without it more often). Often, I will deliberately avoid a film that seems absurdly violent (e.g. the so-called remake of Mr. and Mrs. Smith, which seemed to me from the trailer as absurdly violent and also smacking, to me, of subliminaly promoting domestic violence, whether intentional or not). And I wasn't, at all, getting confrontational with about your comments, I was just truly curious about what it was that prompted them, seeking some knowledge that I might find useful in my own appraisals. And indeed, I have: the violence consideration. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamTherapy Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Hiya b&w. Yeah, you're right Lamour probably isn't known by most. I sort of regarded her "a recognisable name" because of associations with Hope and Crosby, and the 'Road To' movies, bu then . . . I'm a classic film fan. Incidentally, for the 'Should' list, I think I also overlooked: Mary Astor, Joan Fontaine, Thomas Mitchell, Lawrence Tierney, Gene Raymond, Claire Trevor, John Huston, Roman Polanski, Benicio Del Toro, John Leguizamo, Patrick Stweart, Ian McClellan and Raymond Massey, in addition to so many others. And for the 'Should Not' list, I overlooked: Patrick Swayze and Paris Hilton, for starters. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vecchiolarry Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Hi Sam, No, I didn't take your comments as confrontational at all. I took them as simply stating opinions.... We're all entitled to those. I like light-hearted comedy and historical drama. And, silly farce and utter stupidity, too!!!! Films about racial conflict and gangland violence are not on my calendar, no matter how well done. I have a friend who dragged me to see "Goodfellas" and "Casino" and never again. Although I did like and give credit to Scorsese for "The Age of Innocence"... Do I get credit for that??!!!!....... Please say you'll give me at least one 'gold star'!!!!!! Larry Message was edited by: vecchiolarry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandykaypax Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Actually, I think that many people over 40 would know Barbara Stanwyck because she starred in the tv series Big Valley and the miniseries The Thorn Birds. When I was a kid I knew her from the Big Valley reruns on tv, but had no idea that she was a movie star. Sandy K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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