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War on Christmas AND language


hamradio
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Another example of offending someone.

 

http://abc7ny.com/news/christmas-tree-or-holiday-tree-name-causing-a-controversy-in-nj-town/1111222/

 

Now it's my turn to offend... :D

 

 

Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree!
Thy leaves are so unchanging
Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree,
Thy leaves are so unchanging

Not only green when summer's here,
But also when it's cold and drear.
Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree,
Thy leaves are so unchanging!

Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree,
Such pleasure do you bring me!
Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree,
Such pleasure do you bring me!

For every year this Christmas tree,
Brings to us such joy and glee.
Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree,
Such pleasure do you bring me!

Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree,
You'll ever be unchanging!
A symbol of goodwill and love
You'll ever be unchanging

Each shining light
Each silver bell
No one alive spreads cheer so well

Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree,
You'll ever be unchanging

 

 

You said Christmas tree!  Whaaa.whaaa,whaaa.

2F19816100000578-3347907-image-a-30_1449

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Taxpayers dollars should NOT be spent on any religious holiday.    I don't care what that tree is called I just don't want government funds spent to honor a bunch of silly myths.

Of course, this MUST be extended to HALLOWEEN too!

 

HAM; you might have offended MORE people if you went with:

 

O Tannenbaum.

 

Actually, and maybe too, it may be only me and several other people, but nobody I know ever voiced offense or disapproval of calling it a "Christmas Tree". 

 

I wouldn't propose calling a MENORAH by any OTHER name, so it all should be left alone. 

 

The reason I put up a decorated tree to begin with IS because of CHRISTMAS.  I certainly don't recall scouring the lots for a "New Year's Tree"!

 

It's always puzzled me as to why the ones with TOO LITTLE BRAINS always seem to have TOO MUCH TIME on their hands!   ;)

 

Sepiatone

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Taxpayers dollars should NOT be spent on any religious holiday.    I don't care what that tree is called I just don't want government funds spent to honor a bunch of silly myths.

 

So James, this then would also extend to the Christmas lights many town and city governments place on light poles and the like... correct?

 

What about placing American flags on same poles for Memorial Day or July 4th? I guess this would also be a problem for you as well?

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So James, this then would also extend to the Christmas lights many town and city governments place on light poles and the like... correct?

 

What about placing American flags on same poles for Memorial Day or July 4th? I guess this would also be a problem for you as well?

 

Your so bitter you can't see straight.    I don't believe any government funds should be spent on a religious holiday due to separation of church and state.  So yea,  no government funds for Christmas lights since Christmas is a religious holiday.

 

The 4th of July or Memorial day are NOT religious holidays,  clueless one.

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Your so bitter you can't see straight.    I don't believe any government funds should be spent on a religious holiday due to separation of church and state.  So yea,  no government funds for Christmas lights since Christmas is a religious holiday.

 

The 4th of July or Memorial day are NOT religious holidays,  clueless one.

what about obama and that white house christmas tree? :o

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Strangely, in my smallish town, the county and city governments pay for the Christmas lights and other decorations they festoon all over our downtown area, but the big July fourth fireworks celebration is paid for by private donors that they solicit each year in our local paper.

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what about obama and that white house christmas tree? :o

 

Of course I don't agree with the fact there is a White House Christmas tree UNLESS Obama paid for that tree himself. 

 

Since the White House is the temporary private residence of the President and his family the President can decorate it as he wishes but he shouldn't use public funds to do so. 

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I don't really care about public Christmas trees or lights.

Whatever Christian symbolism the tree might have had

centuries ago, there is very little left now. Same with

lights. And since the timing of Christmas has more to do

with old pagan holidays than anything else, hard to take

it all that seriously.

 

Well remember what started this topic; the fact that this 'tree' was called a Christmas trees and NOT a holiday tree.   To me that is what this issue is about.  IF, as you say,  this holiday celebrated on December 25th, that used to be called Christmas, related to the birth of an historical figure many believe is a 'god',  is NO longer about that but instead just a secular \ pagan holiday,  then it only makes sense any tree associated with this now pagan holiday NOT be called a Christmas tree. 

 

But to me Christmas is called Christmas to celebrate the birth of an historical figure Christians believe is the son of god.   I'm just not a member of that faith,  but I understand why members of that faith do take this holiday seriously.   i.e. why it has special meaning to them.   

 

Of course the so called 'middle ground' approach you outline does allow for government spending and display of holiday artifacts (e.g. Santa, reindeer,  snowman,  a tree etc..),  but NOT nativity scenes, crosses etc... (since the courts have ruled these promote a specific religion).      

 

So maybe this middle ground is the best option but I get the feeling it doesn't work well for the faithful.

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Maybe Garden Staters have become more sensitive about this issue

since I lived there. The celebration of Christmas toward the end of

December is related to pagan customs and the Winter solstice, as

far as I remember. There is no evidence that Jesus was born then,

so Christians took over the timing of the celebration, though they

obviously changed the reason for it. Things like Santa Claus and

Christmas trees and decorations are fairly secular. I have no problem

with them being on government property, but I don't think religious

symbols should have that same privilege.

 

I think we agree here.  The only difference I see is that I don't use the term Christmas unless I'm specially talking about the religious element of this holiday.  E.g. Christmas tree; since the word Christmas contains "Christ' and to me that makes this term a religious term.    But yea,  the majority of folks in my area celebrate what you describe as a secular holiday.    e.g.  I like to take walks and the holiday decorations are neat to look at.    Out of the 40 or so homes with decorations less than 10% are related to Jesus (i.e. the religious element of this holiday).

 

My city decided about 20 years ago to only display secular type holiday 'stuff' around the town.   This was due to the fact Jews and Muslims challenged the city and demanded items related to their religion.    The secular type stuff was Ok with the merchants (who provide most of the financial backing to local politicians) since the holidays has a special meaning for them;  selling more goods!

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Of course I don't agree with the fact there is a White House Christmas tree UNLESS Obama paid for that tree himself. 

 

Since the White House is the temporary private residence of the President and his family the President can decorate it as he wishes but he shouldn't use public funds to do so. 

The tree is donated by a tree-growing trade group. White House decorations are paid for out of the National Park Service budget; the White House is public property, administered by the NPS. Search engines are your friends. B)

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Your so bitter you can't see straight.    I don't believe any government funds should be spent on a religious holiday due to separation of church and state.  So yea,  no government funds for Christmas lights since Christmas is a religious holiday.

 

The 4th of July or Memorial day are NOT religious holidays,  clueless one.

 

I ain't the bitter guy here buddy boy. You are the one who seems to not want any government related entities spending any of the tax payer's money on any type of so-called religious holidays. I do not believe for one moment that ANY local, or state muni governments should not have Christmas decorations. This has been a long-standing tradition going way back. You seem intent on telling everyone that your beliefs are that no government money what so ever should be spent on any religious type holidays.

 

This is your right. But try telling this to many communities across this country who have done this and continue to do this WITH public support. If there were no public support, then there would be no decorations.

 

You really think Christmas is a silly myth? Try telling that to the billion plus people across the globe who may feel otherwise.

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Always loved me some Calvin and Hobbes!

 

I think too much is made out of the whole Christmas tree, Christmas decoraton thing.

 

If my city wishes to use "public funds" to display a nativity or put up Christmas decor, I have no quarrel with it as long as it isn't an uneccesary drain on the resources.  Or possibly use donated funds.

 

Jews and Muslims be damned.

 

I'm not speaking intolerantly.  Just on the side of tradition.  If 85% of a city's population IS Christian, and a 15% minority objects to it, the majority should prevail......

 

The first amendment doesn't figure in because the city is NOT putting up Christmas decor as an attempt of establishing religion, but out of respect to the majority of it's city's TAXPAYERS, who might not object to the decor, or how it's funded.  But----

 

Out of fairness, the city council should survey those citizens of differing religions as to how the city can grant THEM "equal time" in particular religious holiday display or recognition. 

 

A "star of David" lighted up on the city hall building perhaps?

 

A banner on the munincipal buildings and/or on every so often streetlight posts wishing all a "Happy Ramadan"?

 

Fine with me.

 

But, I'm not a "take my ball and go home" sort of guy.

 

Besides, most Americans are "armchair" Christians insomuch as we accept being Christians by "association" only.  Many, like me, while at one point in their lives having been baptized in some denomination have never really been regular church-goers, and also don't spend much time absorbed in their religious backgrounds.  We all celebrate this particuar holiday more out of tradition than religious dedication/ devotion.  We've become reliably fond of the avarice and revelry, absorbed in the images of Santa, elves and reindeer that that the "Christ" in Christmas is only given token acknowledgement.

 

Too many Americans(especially these days) only seem to gravitate towards some measure of religious fervor only if someone convinces them that what they  DON'T LIKE about some people or legislation is somewhere supported by biblical scripture(and doesn't neccesarily have to be true!).

 

The long held, old fashioned American Christmas traditions never did anyone any real harm that  I'VE ever heard of, except the feeling of getting less attention from the general public.  But, if THAT didn't do anything detrimental to those folk's overall existence, then why the fuss? 

 

I say call it a "Christmas tree" because we've ALWAYS called it that.  And in doing so, we never thought less of any other peoples or their religions.  We MAY have been remiss in giving THEIR special observances any attention, but ADD those to what already exists, rather than doing away with anything.

 

Sounds fair to me.

 

Merry Christmas;

Sepiatone

 

 

Sepiatone

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Always loved me some Calvin and Hobbes!

 

I think too much is made out of the whole Christmas tree, Christmas decoraton thing.

 

If my city wishes to use "public funds" to display a nativity or put up Christmas decor, I have no quarrel with it as long as it isn't an uneccesary drain on the resources.  Or possibly use donated funds.

 

Jews and Muslims be damned.

 

I'm not speaking intolerantly.  Just on the side of tradition.  If 85% of a city's population IS Christian, and a 15% minority objects to it, the majority should prevail......

 

The first amendment doesn't figure in because the city is NOT putting up Christmas decor as an attempt of establishing religion, but out of respect to the majority of it's city's TAXPAYERS, who might not object to the decor, or how it's funded.  But----

 

Out of fairness, the city council should survey those citizens of differing religions as to how the city can grant THEM "equal time" in particular religious holiday display or recognition. 

 

A "star of David" lighted up on the city hall building perhaps?

 

A banner on the munincipal buildings and/or on every so often streetlight posts wishing all a "Happy Ramadan"?

 

Fine with me.

 

But, I'm not a "take my ball and go home" sort of guy.

 

Besides, most Americans are "armchair" Christians insomuch as we accept being Christians by "association" only.  Many, like me, while at one point in their lives having been baptized in some denomination have never really been regular church-goers, and also don't spend much time absorbed in their religious backgrounds.  We all celebrate this particuar holiday more out of tradition than religious dedication/ devotion.  We've become reliably fond of the avarice and revelry, absorbed in the images of Santa, elves and reindeer that that the "Christ" in Christmas is only given token acknowledgement.

 

Too many Americans(especially these days) only seem to gravitate towards some measure of religious fervor only if someone convinces them that what they  DON'T LIKE about some people or legislation is somewhere supported by biblical scripture(and doesn't neccesarily have to be true!).

 

The long held, old fashioned American Christmas traditions never did anyone any real harm that  I'VE ever heard of, except the feeling of getting less attention from the general public.  But, if THAT didn't do anything detrimental to those folk's overall existence, then why the fuss? 

 

I say call it a "Christmas tree" because we've ALWAYS called it that.  And in doing so, we never thought less of any other peoples or their religions.  We MAY have been remiss in giving THEIR special observances any attention, but ADD those to what already exists, rather than doing away with anything.

 

Sounds fair to me.

 

Merry Christmas;

Sepiatone

 

 

Sepiatone

 

Jews and Muslims be damned???    Wow what an offensive post.

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Anybody see the recent news story about a federal judge who

ruled that students could not have a live nativity scene at

their school? So they used mannequins in place of real

people. I think they missed the main point of his decision. :)

 

Yes, I did read that story in the L.A. Times and I couldn't understand what was behind the judge's ruling.

 

Was he trying so hard to take a middle of the road position,  this is what he came up with?    :blink:

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Jews and Muslims be damned???    Wow what an offensive post.

 

I'm troubled James, that lately you've shown a tendency to take too many things out of context. (and, you MAY have noticed, that sentence WASN'T the WHOLE POST!

 

I usually was able to count on you to keep perspective.  Try layin' off the facebook.

 

What I meant by that statement was just turn a deaf ear to all their self grandizing, petty complaints.  In retrospect, I should have included ATHIESTS.  At least the ones who can't keep quiet.

 

And, in referrence to that judge's decision-----

 

I didn't here or read any news account of it either.  And I don't know what the objection was.  did the students want to do the "live nativity" in front of City Hall?  The town square?

 

there's at least no danger of it being like that guy in the Philipines who actually nailed himself to a CROSS every Easter!

 

 

Sepiatone

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I'm troubled James, that lately you've shown a tendency to take too many things out of context. (and, you MAY have noticed, that sentence WASN'T the WHOLE POST!

 

I usually was able to count on you to keep perspective.  Try layin' off the facebook.

 

What I meant by that statement was just turn a deaf ear to all their self grandizing, petty complaints.  In retrospect, I should have included ATHIESTS.  At least the ones who can't keep quiet.

 

And, in referrence to that judge's decision-----

 

I didn't here or read any news account of it either.  And I don't know what the objection was.  did the students want to do the "live nativity" in front of City Hall?  The town square?

 

there's at least no danger of it being like that guy in the Philipines who actually nailed himself to a CROSS every Easter!

 

 

Sepiatone

 

Sorry,  I have been exposed to Trump too much.   

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There is no "war on Christmas" and never really has been.

Regardless, Christmas is now a secular holiday for the benefit of consumers and corporations and businesses.

Christmas parades began as merchants' attempts to draw people downtown to spend money.  Watch the parade and ensuing shopping in "A Chrismas Story."

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Your so bitter you can't see straight.    I don't believe any government funds should be spent on a religious holiday due to separation of church and state.  So yea,  no government funds for Christmas lights since Christmas is a religious holiday.

 

The 4th of July or Memorial day are NOT religious holidays,  clueless one.

I wonder if you also find it amusing, James that people who harp on about making sure Christ is not taken out of Christmas totally ignore the fact the Christians stole the birthday of Mithras which was celebrated by pagans on December 25th, and took Mithras out of his own natal holiday. Of course it has never occurred to the same people that this could be true since they never research such things. I am tired of living in a supposed theocracy even though it was based on the principle of separation of church and state.

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