Butterfly40 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Hi! I'm new here, and a big fan of Jeanette and Nelson's - Jeanette's, particularly. I find this thread fascinating, and just had to weigh in. >> I may be mistaken about this, but doesn't Sharon Rich > claim that she has a different manuscript from the > one Professor Turk allegedly used for his book? And > that her manuscript was Jeanette's "true" memoir? According to her "maceddy" website, she claims that the manuscript she published dates from the Summer of 1960. I don't know what manuscript Turk used ... does he say in his book? As far as Rich claiming that she has the "true" manuscript/memoir, her website doesn't appear to claim that now, but I do think I remember reading something to that effect on her site when she first announced that she had gotten her hands on a copy of Jeanette's "autobiography".... I could be wrong about this, but I don't think so. > Also, assuming Jeanette did have romantic liasons > with Stone and Eddy yet elected not to include > references to them in drafts of her memoir, it seems > likely that she wished to keep this aspect of her > life completely private. Therefore, wouldn't Miss > Rich's making them public be considered a disregard > for Jeanette's feelings on the matter? Rich claims to be such a fan of Jeanette and Nelson, yet I personally feel that she has no respect for either one of them. If Jeanette and Nelson wanted the world to know that they indeed had an intimate relationship, they each had plenty of opportunity to spread the word. If an off-screen relationship existed between them (and for the record, I will state that I believe it did), why is it really anyone's business? I can't in any way-shape-or-form pretend to know what Jeanette and Nelson would want, b/c I never met them, but judging from what I have read, it would seem that neither one of them would be very happy to know that their most personal, intimate business is being put out there for the entire world to see and scrutinize. > Also, I agree that if Miss Rich discovered the unpublished > manuscript from one of Jeanette's ghostwriters and > published it without the estate's approval, it seems > likely that she, in effect, stole it, and published > it without authority to do so. It was Jeanette's life > story, not the co-writer's. Perhaps Jeanette didn't > secure all the proper legal formalities to protect > her work, but it still may be viewed as a betrayal of > "trust" on Miss Rich's part and, perhaps, a criminal > action. I couldn't have said this better myself - I agree wholeheartedly! I would like to know who gave Rich the authority to publish this manuscript. I would think that something this personal would require the approval of Jeanette's estate. The mere fact that Rich has gotten her mits on a copy of the manuscript does not automatically give her the right to publish it. Who is in charge of Jeanette's estate, anyway? Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastfoxy Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 Butterfly, you come not to praise Sharon but to bury her. Your a Saint, so why not simply come out and say your against all Sinners who believe Jeanette and Nelson were in love. You don't want their love story told do you? That's okay. We forgive you. Besides, Blossom would never have given Sharon the story to tell if Blossom knew that Jeanetter sincerely did not want the story told. Blossom loved Jeanette and would not have done anything to hurt her sister. That simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastfoxy Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 Markus21... those posts believing Jeanette and Nelson were Saints were interesting. Me, I'm still on the Sinners side. They were in love. They screwed it all up, but they were in love. Too many folks knew it. Too many folks tried to hide it. I side with Confuses... I think you protestest too much. Why not put the story out and let the public decide for themselves. Were Nelson Eddy and Jeanette MacDonald Saints or Sinners? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetbabykmd Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 What a bizarre thread this is! I have been trying to watch the Jeanette MacDonald movies and just can't get into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfly40 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 > Butterfly, you come not to praise Sharon but to bury > her. Your a Saint, so why not simply come out and > say your against all Sinners who believe Jeanette and > Nelson were in love. You don't want their love story > told do you? That's okay. We forgive you. Besides, > Blossom would never have given Sharon the story to > tell if Blossom knew that Jeanetter sincerely did not > want the story told. Blossom loved Jeanette and > would not have done anything to hurt her sister. That > simple. Well, you are right about one thing .....I definitely did not come here to praise Ms. Rich, and I don't believe I ever claimed to in my post. I question Sharon's motives ..... why does she feel it is her duty to tell the world about this supposed love affair between J and N? Why is it any of her business? It just seems to me that she has spent a great deal of her time focusing on this topic. If she is so intent upon keeping J and N's memory alive, as she claims on her site, there are far better ways to do that than to keep harping on something that may or may not have occurred. And, if you had read my post thoroughly, you would have seen that I mentioned that I do in fact feel like J and N had an intimate relationship off-screen .... I simply feel that all of the sorted details are no one's business. And aren't you going a bit too far in assuming that Blossom's blabbing would be totally ok with Jeanette?? Did you know Jeanette personally? And, quite frankly, I find your use of "saint" and "sinner" rather odd, and will not admit to being either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzcutter Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Butterfly, you come not to praise Sharon but to bury her. Your a Saint, so why not simply come out and say your against all Sinners >> I have to admit that I find this whole labeling of people as saints or sinners just because they have some questions and are asking for more information more than just a tad odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arabella Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I am going to try and explain "saints" and "sinners" again but my posts seem to disappear. The terms were mine to explain the difference between the diverse "camps" of fans on the subject of Jeanette and Nelson's relationship. Those who believed that the duo would never stray outside their marriage vows I deemed the "saints" because they put their idols on a pedestal. Those who were convinced that America's Singing Sweethearts truly loved each other I named the "sinners". They knew that sometimes love has no boundaries and people never belong on pedestals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzcutter Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Arabella, I understand where the terms come from when speaking of J&E and their fans, I just find it odd that people who are not devout fans and just looking for more information regarding the books and the duo are being labeled with those terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d120421 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 , I just find it odd that people > who are not devout fans and just looking for more > information regarding the books and the duo are being > labeled with those terms. Well said, Lzcutter: Personally, I don't consider myself either a "Saint" or a "Sinner" where MacDonald & Eddy are concerned, because, quite honestly, my devotion to them is not that fervent or all-encompassing. I certainly enjoy their films and admire and appreciate their talents and acheivements. That said, I think there is some validity to such critical assessments of Nelson Eddy's screen image as, at times, "not unlike that of a cold suet pudding." I also endorse Noel Coward's assessment of Jeanette's and Nelson's performances in the film version of his operetta BITTERSWEET as akin to "watching the romance between an out-of-control rocking horse (Jeanette) and a rawhide suitcase (Nelson)." At best, these terms "Saints" and "Sinners" are terms of extremes, which seem to reflect the unquestioning and vehement fervor with which Miss Rich's adherents endorse her claims and seemingly seek to vilify/denounce all other interpretations. I am intrigued by the determined and resolute certainty with which Miss Rich's fans endorse her claims given the several potentially questionable aspects of her research, including, but not limited to, the severe stroke suffered by Blossom Rock a few years before Miss Rich met her, the manner in which Miss Rich acquired the unpublished manuscript allegedly written by Jeanette upon which she, in part, based her research, the legal implications involved in Miss Rich's having published this manuscript (and reportedly trumpeted its' acquisition prior to publishing the manuscript), and the general lack of interest her work seems to have inspired in major literary, film, music and cutural circles. While I do find such unquestioning devotion to Miss Rich's theses admirable, at least in some respects, some objective information/evidence on the issues that I and others have raised would be most appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastfoxy Posted March 11, 2006 Author Share Posted March 11, 2006 Allow me to clear something up. The controversy has never, ever, been about what anyone wrote in a book. Everyone loves Jeanette and Nelson because they found them on their own on the screen and heard them sing. People were devoted to them separately and together. Immediately controversy about Jeanette and Nelson first rose up and started in Hollywood itself. People were saying they hated each other, and soon this statement leaked out of Hollywood to the world. Next was news they were friends. Finally the leak came that they were really in love but could not settle their differences between themselves and their careers. Again the gossip flew they were, "Just Friends." Controversy continued. People flocked to their movies with the controversy on their minds. Stories, comments, questions, controversy's were out before anyone wrote any book about Nelson or Jeanette. What gossip story was true? Which story should one believe? Some? None? Does not matter. The point is the stories flew and the controversy remains to this day. We cut to the chase and tagged who believed in their love story and who did not. Simple. Your a Saint until you give them the benefit of the doubt that they were in love, and instantly, your plunged into the Sinners Circle. Why is the controversy still going? That is the question. Is it because it's a question that needs answering? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastfoxy Posted March 17, 2006 Author Share Posted March 17, 2006 Well, well, well,.... Look what TCM published on http://turnerclassicmovies.com/movienews/index/?cid=121724. I see they finally realize that the controversy started in Hollywood and it needs to end there. They posted out: Sweethearts: Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy Biography on Sale in March! In honor of Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy chosen as TCM's March 2006 "Stars of the Month" the following MacDonald/Eddy books by Sharon Rich are discounted for TCM viewers at www.maceddy.com. Use coupon code: TCM at checkout to receive an additional 10% off the books listed below: Sweethearts: The Timeless Love Affair Onscreen and Off Between Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy. Based on previously unpublished love letters, diaries, memoirs, 200+ interviews and the author's friendship with Jeanette's older sister, actress Blossom Rock. "Offers considerable proof of their romance, per Robert Osborne in the March TCM program guide. "One of the finest books about MGM and Hollywood during the Golden Era. You will enjoy every word of Sweethearts and you will find a new meaning when viewing their musicals. Then you'll read it a second time. -Jane Ellen Wayne, The Golden Guys of MGM. Jeanette MacDonald Autobiography: The Lost Manuscript. In 1960, Jeanette hired magazine writer Fredda Dudley Balling to ghostwrite her autobiography. Balling's own letters help explain why it was never published; Jeanette's handwritten comments are on nearly every page of the unfinished manuscript. Annotated and with an introduction by Sharon Rich. Nelson Eddy: The Opera Years. Complete coverage of Nelson's early career, 1922-35. Includes his personal clippings, handwritten notations, all his operatic roles, oratorios, radio, earliest interviews and insight into his youthful romances. Bonus chapter includes Jeanette MacDonald's opera career plus coverage and rare photos of their operatic scenes in the lost "Tosca" Act II from Maytime. Also, excerpts from an unproduced movie script written by Nelson on the life of Feodor Chaliapin, in which he had planned to play dual roles--Chaliapin and himself. Jeanette MacDonald: The Irving Stone Letters. The complete handwritten correspondence of love letters written by young Broadway starlet (and later MGM star) Jeanette MacDonald to her beau (1927-28) Irving Stone. The letters, postcards and telegrams continued until 1938, providing amazing details of her movie career, health problems including a 1929 heart attack, her private life?and Nelson Eddy. Annotated by Sharon Rich. The Rosary by Florence L. Barclay, new introduction by Sharon Rich and comments by Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy. The movie they never made! In 1948, Nelson Eddy chose this 1909 novel as a possible film vehicle for himself and Jeanette for their proposed MGM comeback. The musical Jane Eyre-like plot would have been perfect for them, plus Jeanette wrote Nelson while on concert tour: "The story is so like the course of our own lives it was amazing. The original novel plus a new introduction and photos explains the MacDonald-Eddy connection. Sharon Rich is considered by many to be the foremost authority on MacDonald and Eddy. She has written many magazine articles, has lectured in the U.S. and abroad, and was a guest speaker at the AFI (East Coast), where the launch party was held for Sweethearts in 1994. Sweethearts was a selection of the Entertainment Book Club and the #1 Best Seller on Booksurge.com for 4 weeks. In 1995 Rich was awarded a Dame of Merit by the Knights of Malta for her contribution to History and Literature. She has provided a free interactive biography, extensive interviews and other documentation at www.maceddy.com. Contact info: Sharon Rich, sharonrich@aol.com, 212-475-2703. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecilia_57 Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 What a great offer and a great way to become acquainted with J & N for all the people who are just discovering them. Thanks TCM!! ~Cecilia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackieM Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Excellent idea for TCM to list all these definitive books on the Nelson and Jeanette relationship. The books may answer some of the questions of attorneys and or judges. With the books, one has the sources, the interviews, first hand accounts etc. If anyone is interested in their earlier careers--Nelson Eddy The Opera Years is an informative account of Nelson's years with the Philadelphia Opera, his studies in France and Dresden during the 20s, and the beginning of his Concert tours. The Irving Stone Letters covers the Broadway Musicals period for Jeanette. Her stage career served as an intro to her career in films beginning with the early sound movies. Thanks again to TCM for showing the films of this talented, attractive couple, and featuring them as their star of the month (the first couple to be chosen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastfoxy Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 First couple to be honored on TCM? Thank you for that information. Interesting. I didn't know that. A good choice by TCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastfoxy Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 I must thank TCM for their showing of the films that Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy did together. They were thoughly enjoyed by many. Perhaps in June, around the birthdays of these actors, we may get to see the Documentary that was done on these two Hollywood greats. Either way, our compliments to TCM and Mr. Osborne for coming forth with such wonderful entertainment for their fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanettefan7 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Well said. I am very grateful to TCM for showing the Jeanette MacDonald fand Nelson Eddy films in prime time,and also that they showed their solo effects as well. We where also happy to see that fine cover of our stars from thei great film Maytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanettefan7 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Well said. I am very grateful to TCM for showing the Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy films in prime time,and also that they showed their solo effects as well. We where also happy to see that fine cover of our stars from their great film Maytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NortBanba Posted September 8, 2006 Share Posted September 8, 2006 Of all of their movies, I would say that I liked "I Married an Angel" best. I don't know if I fall within the "Saint" or "Sinner" camp though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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