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Negativity for the Day


CaveGirl
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Is it just me [don't answer that!] or have you noticed that often when there is a guest host introducing their favorite four movies on TCM, that they will pick the most typical classics and same old same old stuff over and over ad infinitum?

 

Often the actors and actresses are the absolute worst in this regard, and seem to have little imagination at all in their choices. I think when it is someone not directly in front of the camera like a writer, they seem to be a bit more well read in their choices and will unearth some gems but in general I get so bored watching the same films touted by the celebrity guests, as if no one has ever seen "Breakfast at Tiffany's" before and it needs reevaluation.

 

I guess I would assume that if one is actually in show biz that they might occasionally have a bit more esoteric choices for at least one of the four films picked by them to feature, but it seems to me that it is so much more often the average viewer at TCM who has the more impressive taste and comes up with some fabulous choices.

I mean, how many times regardless of what a good film it is, can the selector put "The Philadelphia Story" or "The Women" or whatever on their list of choices. Don't most films fans of any magnitude already know about such films and for that matter they already show all the time on TCM. 

Okay, I do realize that it is about the choosers favorites, but still...it appears that the celebrity hosts seem to have seen far fewer films than your average Joe and have little interest in going outside the box. Maybe being in films insulates one, so many of the "stars" seem to have little knowledge of films outside of their own milieu and output. I also find them putting their own films in the mix often annoying, except when it is someone like Joan Collins who tells marvelous backstage stories about her films or someone like Jack Garfein who was most interesting discussing "Something Wild".

 

Being that if they actually watched TCM as they say they do, one might think they would occasionally pick a more unknown or obscure film, knowing that it has not had total exposure already on TCM.
 

All I would ask is that the "star" come up with some less typical choices, than the ones which any Film 101 student has even seen already like three times by the end of their college days.

 

Other than this I truly love all TCM's programming and even the wine club ads.
 

Your beef of the day?

 

I

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I already stated MY beef for the day just now in my "first time" thread.

 

But I do know what you mean and concur.  If perhaps I was some celebrity and asked to "guest host"  on TCM some night, I'd ask if I could go over their scheduling of the last few months to see in my choices were shown recently, or even frequently and go about thinking of some other films I could choose that were equally influential.

 

 

Sepiatone

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Is it just me [don't answer that!] or have you noticed that often when there is a guest host introducing their favorite four movies on TCM, that they will pick the most typical classics and same old same old stuff over and over ad infinitum?I

I agree 100%. I don't like guest hosts, except on rare occasions, like when Whit Stillman introduced his own movies. 

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I totally agree with your criticism of the guest programmers. There have been a few choices that were unexpected, but the one guest I distinctly recall having more original choices, or at least one, was Bill Hader, I think, when he chose to show SLITHER, a fun, obscure seventies James Caan flick. Hader is a bit of a film geek, and worked in the industry behind the scenes before joining Saturday Night Live, so maybe that's why his knowledge may be a little more idiosyncratic. The Criterion website has an enjoyable section of videos featuring celeb guests going through the Criterion catalog, picking out titles and commenting on them. Hader's is one of the best.

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I already stated MY beef for the day just now in my "first time" thread.

 

But I do know what you mean and concur.  If perhaps I was some celebrity and asked to "guest host"  on TCM some night, I'd ask if I could go over their scheduling of the last few months to see in my choices were shown recently, or even frequently and go about thinking of some other films I could choose that were equally influential.

 

 

Sepiatone

Thanks for your sage thoughts, Sepiatone!

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I totally agree with your criticism of the guest programmers. There have been a few choices that were unexpected, but the one guest I distinctly recall having more original choices, or at least one, was Bill Hader, I think, when he chose to show SLITHER, a fun, obscure seventies James Caan flick. Hader is a bit of a film geek, and worked in the industry behind the scenes before joining Saturday Night Live, so maybe that's why his knowledge may be a little more idiosyncratic. The Criterion website has an enjoyable section of videos featuring celeb guests going through the Criterion catalog, picking out titles and commenting on them. Hader's is one of the best.

bill hader is very smart and I hope he he gets a chance to do more Herb Welch. :lol:

 

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Is it just me [don't answer that!] or have you noticed that often when there is a guest host introducing their favorite four movies on TCM, that they will pick the most typical classics and same old same old stuff over and over ad infinitum?

 

Often the actors and actresses are the absolute worst in this regard, and seem to have little imagination at all in their choices. I think when it is someone not directly in front of the camera like a writer, they seem to be a bit more well read in their choices and will unearth some gems but in general I get so bored watching the same films touted by the celebrity guests, as if no one has ever seen "Breakfast at Tiffany's" before and it needs reevaluation.

 

I guess I would assume that if one is actually in show biz that they might occasionally have a bit more esoteric choices for at least one of the four films picked by them to feature, but it seems to me that it is so much more often the average viewer at TCM who has the more impressive taste and comes up with some fabulous choices.

 

I mean, how many times regardless of what a good film it is, can the selector put "The Philadelphia Story" or "The Women" or whatever on their list of choices. Don't most films fans of any magnitude already know about such films and for that matter they already show all the time on TCM. 

 

Okay, I do realize that it is about the choosers favorites, but still...it appears that the celebrity hosts seem to have seen far fewer films than your average Joe and have little interest in going outside the box. Maybe being in films insulates one, so many of the "stars" seem to have little knowledge of films outside of their own milieu and output. I also find them putting their own films in the mix often annoying, except when it is someone like Joan Collins who tells marvelous backstage stories about her films or someone like Jack Garfein who was most interesting discussing "Something Wild".

 

Being that if they actually watched TCM as they say they do, one might think they would occasionally pick a more unknown or obscure film, knowing that it has not had total exposure already on TCM.

 

All I would ask is that the "star" come up with some less typical choices, than the ones which any Film 101 student has even seen already like three times by the end of their college days.

 

Other than this I truly love all TCM's programming and even the wine club ads.

 

Your beef of the day?

 

I

I don't know about you, but my 4 favorite classic films are:

 

1--NORTH BY NORTHWEST

 

2--FROM HERE TO ETERNITY

 

3---DOCTOR  ZHIVAGO

 

4---THE PHILADELPHIA STORY

 

It would be the dream of a lifetime if TCM asked me to be guest programmer.

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Is it just me [don't answer that!] or have you noticed that often when there is a guest host introducing their favorite four movies on TCM, that they will pick the most typical classics and same old same old stuff over and over ad infinitum?

 

Often the actors and actresses are the absolute worst in this regard, and seem to have little imagination at all in their choices. I think when it is someone not directly in front of the camera like a writer, they seem to be a bit more well read in their choices and will unearth some gems but in general I get so bored watching the same films touted by the celebrity guests, as if no one has ever seen "Breakfast at Tiffany's" before and it needs reevaluation.

 

I guess I would assume that if one is actually in show biz that they might occasionally have a bit more esoteric choices for at least one of the four films picked by them to feature, but it seems to me that it is so much more often the average viewer at TCM who has the more impressive taste and comes up with some fabulous choices.

 

I mean, how many times regardless of what a good film it is, can the selector put "The Philadelphia Story" or "The Women" or whatever on their list of choices. Don't most films fans of any magnitude already know about such films and for that matter they already show all the time on TCM. 

 

Okay, I do realize that it is about the choosers favorites, but still...it appears that the celebrity hosts seem to have seen far fewer films than your average Joe and have little interest in going outside the box. Maybe being in films insulates one, so many of the "stars" seem to have little knowledge of films outside of their own milieu and output. I also find them putting their own films in the mix often annoying, except when it is someone like Joan Collins who tells marvelous backstage stories about her films or someone like Jack Garfein who was most interesting discussing "Something Wild".

 

Being that if they actually watched TCM as they say they do, one might think they would occasionally pick a more unknown or obscure film, knowing that it has not had total exposure already on TCM.

 

All I would ask is that the "star" come up with some less typical choices, than the ones which any Film 101 student has even seen already like three times by the end of their college days.

 

Other than this I truly love all TCM's programming and even the wine club ads.

 

Your beef of the day?

 

I

I agree with you, but do you think that maybe the guest hosts are pushed towards picking films are well known? They are limited to what is in the Turner library, and if I ever got to guest host I would really push for showing "You Can Never Tell", a Universal film from 1951. But I doubt Turner has any rights to show it even though it has been restored and is available on DVD. So I would be stuck with not going with my first choices.

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I agree with you, but do you think that maybe the guest hosts are pushed towards picking films are well known? They are limited to what is in the Turner library, and if I ever got to guest host I would really push for showing "You Can Never Tell", a Universal film from 1951. But I doubt Turner has any rights to show it even though it has been restored and is available on DVD. So I would be stuck with not going with my first choices.

 

The idea you mention has been discussed around here;   i.e.  that TCM has the host pick films from a set list and this leads to very 'standard' type selections.    Of course I don't know if that is the case or not.

 

Another theory is that a host has very limited knowledge of studio-era films (i.e. they are not like us diehards at this forum), and that is why they pick films like Casablanca etc... instead of relatively unknown gems.  

 

Note my selections would be 30s Columbia films  with Jean Arthur,  40s Fox noir films or films from United Artist, Republic and other studios TCM tends to not feature.     But if I did that someone at TCM would show me the door!

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I have seen often the lament that: Guest Programmers chose frequently-aired movies and that their lists are unimaginative.

 

Basic popularity of movies made between: 1930 and 1965 in: United States can be found at: http://www.imdb.com/search/title?count=100&countries=us&production_status=released&release_date=1930,1965&title_type=feature You may note that every movie on first two pages which could possibly be shown on TCM has at some point been in heavy rotation on TCM. Most can be associated with threads which disparage the frequency of their airing.

 

It is quite reasonable that movies which are the most popular among movie-watching population will be popular with small sampling of: Guest Programmers.

 

It is purpose of: Guest Programmer segment to present: Guest Programmer's favorite movies. It is not purpose of segment for: Guest Programmer to present: "obscure movie which they kind of like which has not aired on TCM previously."

 

It is purpose of: TCM Underground and of: TCM Imports to present such movies.

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To work with RO, I have four musicals I'd like to see--theme would be "MGM musicals shown once in a blue moon."  They are:

 

1.  "Jupiter's Darling" (1955)--last musical for Esther Williams and Marge & Gower Champion.  Have seen the excerpted bit in "That's Entertainment Part III" (1994), but that's all.

 

2. "I Love Melvin" (1953)--Minor but enjoyable MGM fare starring Debbie Reynolds.

 

3. "Ziegfeld Follies" (1946)--Stars most everyone on the MGM lot who could sing or dance between 1944-1946--some parts work, some don't-- "A Great Lady Gives An Interview" with Judy Garland, & the two dance numbers with Fred Astaire & Lucille Bremer are worth sitting through the whole film--especially if you know who Garland is spoofing (listen to her vocal patterns).

 

4.  "Let's Dance"--(1950)--Fred Astaire and Betty Hutton musical I've never seen. 

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I have seen often the lament that: Guest Programmers chose frequently-aired movies and that their lists are unimaginative.

 

Basic popularity of movies made between: 1930 and 1965 in: United States can be found at: http://www.imdb.com/search/title?count=100&countries=us&production_status=released&release_date=1930,1965&title_type=feature You may note that every movie on first two pages which could possibly be shown on TCM has at some point been in heavy rotation on TCM. Most can be associated with threads which disparage the frequency of their airing.

 

It is quite reasonable that movies which are the most popular among movie-watching population will be popular with small sampling of: Guest Programmers.

 

It is purpose of: Guest Programmer segment to present: Guest Programmer's favorite movies. It is not purpose of segment for: Guest Programmer to present: "obscure movie which they kind of like which has not aired on TCM previously."

 

It is purpose of: TCM Underground and of: TCM Imports to present such movies.

 

If what you mention is indeed the purpose of the Guest Programming segment,   I hope TCM gets rid of it.

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Many years ago, when I was newbie around here, there was a thread similar to this one, and one poster - who it was is long lost to my memory - matter-of-factly stated with something of an air of authority that the idea that guest programmers have any say in their selections was a fiction. Rather startled by this accusation, I queried said poster how he/she possibly knew that. I don't recall getting a satisfactory (or perhaps any) response.

 

I think it's fair to suggest the classic film knowledge of many of the guest programmers isn't as broad as a typical poster on these message boards, and so they might tend to select the more famous films. Also, the guest programmer has to accept the reality that there are only certain films TCM is going to be able to obtain the rights to show. While I personally don't think the whole guest programmer series is rigged, as that long-ago poster suggested, I do think it's likely a TCM staff member might present a guest programmer who doesn't necessarily come in with a strong set of ideas with a list of available films that lean toward the more famous, as a guideline from which to potentially choose. 

 

Two revealing "peel back the curtain" moments I recall: 1) When John Landis was guest programmer, one of his choices was THE GENERAL. When Robert Osborne asked him why he'd selected that film, he replied with a laugh, "It's the only Buster Keaton silent TCM has the rights to!" Osborne let that remark pass without comment, but I thought it was at least cool of TCM to not edit out that moment of honesty (maybe they just didn't have time to do a reshoot). 2) When Ron Perlman was guest programmer, one of his four choices was SULLIVAN'S TRAVELS. Now, this is a film that does pop up on TCM once in a while - in fact, as I recall, they showed it just two or three months later - but for that particular date, they couldn't get the rights. The interview segment where Osborne and Perlman would have discussed the film was replaced by a Ben Mankiewicz appearance, explaining the situation and reading an email from Perlman, in which he gave an alternate selection and explained why he picked that film (forgotten what the replacement film was). Again, I found that to be a very cool, more-revealing-than-usual TCM moment.

 

You do see a guest programmer from time to time have some really eclectic choices, and kudos to TCM for accommodating those guests. I think that's the proof that the series isn't rigged. Bill Hader has already been mentioned. I don't remember now who the guest programmer was who had SPIRIT OF THE BEEHIVE among his (think it was a man) selections, but that was another off-the-wall, eclectic night.

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Robert Osborne once explained in an interview that, in the early days of the guest programmer series, the folks at TCM would approach celebrities and ask them to appear on the air. This practice was discontinued after Donald Trump was a guest programmer in 2007, as it was apparently obvious to everyone in the studio that Trump hadn't actually seen any of the films he was talking about.

 

Since then, TCM's policy is that celebrities now have to express their interest in being a guest programmer, rather than TCM reaching out to them. So all of the guest programmers today are ostensibly classic movie fans, rudimentary though their knowledge of film may be.

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& I also get the impression, more often than not, these so-called 'guests' are more interested in using the time to plug their latest venture (book, movie, tv show) rather than having any real interest in introducing anyone to their 'favorite' films, of which they often show no real knowledge OR enthusiasm.

Just IMO

:unsure:

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Many years ago, when I was newbie around here, there was a thread similar to this one, and one poster - who it was is long lost to my memory - matter-of-factly stated with something of an air of authority that the idea that guest programmers have any say in their selections was a fiction. 

 

 

I remember postings here by people who had been chosen to be: Fan Guest Programmer. At least one of them stated that they were asked to provide a list of several movies which they would like to present. Decision was then made on which to air based on availability. People at TCM have stated several times that not all movies are available to them for various reasons.

 

I believe it reasonable to assume process for: 'star' Guest Programmer would be similar. They would surely be able to speak with much greater interest of movies which they truly like.

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I don't know about you, but my 4 favorite classic films are:

 

1--NORTH BY NORTHWEST

 

2--FROM HERE TO ETERNITY

 

3---DOCTOR  ZHIVAGO

 

4---THE PHILADELPHIA STORY

 

It would be the dream of a lifetime if TCM asked me to be guest programmer.

Why not just show NORTH BY NORTHWEST four times in a row. Now that would certainly be a dream come true for some people, right..? :)

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Without negativity there is no positivity so I applaud you, Ms. Cavegirl for having the fortitude to air I your beef. Someone here stated the following

:"It is purpose of: Guest Programmer segment to present: Guest Programmer's favorite movies. It is not purpose of segment for: Guest Programmer to present: "obscure movie which they kind of like which has not aired on TCM previously.""

 If there were only a hundred very popular mainstream films ever made and only ten which were obscure then this might be an acceptable practice. But being that TCM owns a plethora of famous and also not so famous films it seems pathetic to only show over and over the same films as selected by the famous participants. Surely some of them have knowledge of a bit less mainstream films to have an affection for and share with TCM viewers. I believe someone mentioned The Spirit of the Beehive which I had seen but was thrilled to see a guest programmer choose as a favorite. By the way I don't think Cavegirl was implying the film had to be not shown previously but was just hoping for a bit more eclectic taste to be shown by celebrities. Whoever said many of them seem to be using the spot to hype their own stuff is probably on the money.

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I remember postings here by people who had been chosen to be: Fan Guest Programmer. At least one of them stated that they were asked to provide a list of several movies which they would like to present. Decision was then made on which to air based on availability. People at TCM have stated several times that not all movies are available to them for various reasons.

 

I believe it reasonable to assume process for: 'star' Guest Programmer would be similar. They would surely be able to speak with much greater interest of movies which they truly like.

 

Having the guest Programmer provide a list of films is a very sound approach.   The TCM programmers can pick from this list and this reduces the odds of TCM showing a film they have just shown recently or one of the standard repeats like NBNW or The Women etc...

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Robert Osborne once explained in an interview that, in the early days of the guest programmer series, the folks at TCM would approach celebrities and ask them to appear on the air. This practice was discontinued after Donald Trump was a guest programmer in 2007, as it was apparently obvious to everyone in the studio that Trump hadn't actually seen any of the films he was talking about.

 

Since then, TCM's policy is that celebrities now have to express their interest in being a guest programmer, rather than TCM reaching out to them. So all of the guest programmers today are ostensibly classic movie fans, rudimentary though their knowledge of film may be.

This is hilarious. Donald Trump picked four movies and AFTERWARDS it was obvious to everyone that he had no idea what he was talking about in reference to those films? I hope the same doesn't happen if he becomes president!

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