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Filmgenius89

Starting and ending times

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When the running time of a movie is put in the schedule, it is the length of just the movie.

 

If a movie is 119 minutes, how do we know how long to tape for as not to miss the ending since Robert Osbourne's message usually starts two minutes or so late?

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The listed time is supposed to be the full running time of the movie by itself. For a 95 minute movie, the schedule time slot might be for 1 hr and 45 minutes. However, the film might start late if there are TCM promos before it and if Osborne gives a long introduction to it.

 

The problem with ?From Here to Eternity? is that it had a long Osborne introduction, it was a 1 hr and 58 minute film, and it had only a 2 hour time slot in the schedule. The Osborne introduction caused it to start late and that made it run into the next hour?s schedule after 2 hours. So people who recorded only 2 hours of the movie missed the end of it.

 

If you have a long movie and a tight schedule, you need to record several extra minutes at the end of the scheduled end of the movie.

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If it's obvious that a movie will fit into a time slot with time to spare, say a 100 minute movie in a 120 minute slot, I record the entire 120 minutes. If It looks close, like 117 minutes in a 120 minute slot, I'll pad out my record time by 10 mnutes to be safe. Never usually have a problem.

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That could be a problem if you're using an 120 min tape or disc and you want to use SP for high quality. How would you do that?

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That is a problem. I guess you'd have to record it at a lesser quality. I used to record at the slowest speed -- and interestingly, movies that I recorded on tape 18 years ago are still fine.

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I have also found that if you get into using blank DVDs that the available fill time time can actually be more than what is generally advertised by the DVD maker. I use TDK DVDs and the standard is for 2 hours worth at SP but I have discovered that I get 124 min. The 90 min setting has 92 minutes worth of space. The LP or 3 hr length can get 186 min. I never go beyond that because of too much decline in quality. This longer time is great if you want to plan to include in Osborne's intros, or if it is a movie that runs a little past 90, 120, or 180 when you are there.

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I get just as good of a recording in the SP (2 Hr.) mode as I do in the LP (3 Hr.) mode. That is why I like it when a film is only 90 minutes in length so that I can put two films on one Disc.If you have a good DVD Recorder and a good digital provider such as DirecTV or Dish Network than the recording is usually better than the broadcast.

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"blank DVDs that the available fill time time can actually be more than what is generally advertised by the DVD maker"

 

Memorex is really good at this. Usually I can get 10-15 minutes more than stated.

 

I always look up the actual time of a movie in the TCM movie database - I've been caught short too many times. Sometimes they list more than one length, due to different releases, I always go by the longest time. If there is not going to be an introduction, I add 5 minutes, just because. If there is going to be an introduction, I add 10 minutes. The only time that this has failed me is when TCM has actually screwed up on their ending/beginning times. For example, sometimes the previous movie will run extra long, so the movie I want starts 15 minutes late, that can throw everything off. And TCM, although not often, occasionally makes these errors. I lost a Bette Davis movie like that, last year. Like I said, though, it doesn't happen often. Other than that, this system has always left me enough time and I've never had a movie cut short.

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I do double up on some approx 90-min films to fit in the 3 hr slot. Generally, though, they are just films I would like to have for the collection, but not classics that deserve the best quality. Things like real classics go on the very best speed I can do. That being said, however, I will double up on Garbo and Eddy & MacDonald, for example, just because I'd like to have them but they are not an essential; still some consider them classics.

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I guess i'm not the only "nut" out there that worries about these kind of issues. Here we go with my setup. I have my digital feed coming into a Studio Movie USB digital converter box, from there it goes to my VCR and our of my VCR to a TV/DVD for viewing. The "output" of my USB 2.0 Movie box goes to a 2.0 input on my computer. So now when I have a movie that I want to record from TV/TCM I am ahead of time set up with both the VCR and my computer and I am waiting during the "Osborne" period. I usually don't worry too much about his comments unless it's at the end of a movie and i feel it's important to that film. Remembering that the film itself is going to have the TCM logo on the bottom right anyway. So, enhancements like that can add personal value to me. Anyway I always have my VCR as a "backup" to my digital version that I am recording on the computer for "burning" at a later time. Now on the computer end that is viewed on the monitor there is a "drag" time of about 1-2 seconds before it records to the computer so I am prompted by the VCR to get it going at least a ? a minute ahead of time and I have that actual time to key the computer on for digital recording. Understand that the DVD rendering process allows me to "edit" the movie or the "lead in" "tail out" process, meaning I can do a fade in or other features after the movie is recorded to the harddrive then and before I burn it to DVD, If I see I need to improve the movie. Example sometime the music starts out sounding "harsh" from the get go, I can "feather" the sound in so it fades into the beginning, Or if the movie is too dark or too light I can adjust that also. Understand I only go thru this kind of process on movies that are virtually non-existent anywhere else. Most of my DVD's come from the OE VHS films that I have come across and I then just dub them in nicely to DVD and sometimes then "move" the VHS tape along on like Ebay. A good example is "The Human Comedy" with Mickey Rooney. Well I have been watching and missing out on all Ebay auctions (few and far apart) and most are tapes that people have taped from their own tv's (poor quality) and they try to get big bucks for them on Ebay (again an example is "The Girl from Jones Beach" I paid a small fortune $80 for this tape and it's garbage.) But once I have the original VHS tape, then dubbing is easy and like I said in MOST cases I keep the VHS in my "dry storage" area in boxes. Also when I burn a DVD I immediately burn a "backup" of that disc since homemade DVD's can tend to have problems more so than store bought DVD movies (the etching process is completely different) (also if you burn DVD discs DO NOT SLIDE THEM INTO A CD type holder until it has sat for about 24 hours, I use the paper sleeves to protect all my burnt discs.) I have lots more info on this type of process if you need help, i've learned the hard/costly way and made lot's of "coasters." Also this method gives me 100% insurance with a VHS backup that I can recreate later if something fails. So far so good. BTW, with DVD from VHS the quality can actually improve (hard to believe) but it's comes from the

rendering process where the movie is made into digital from analog. Here is another quick pointer, my local cable company which is Qwest is my digital provider. Awhile back I wanted to record the movie "Kings Row" from my local Video store and I had the VHS tape ahead of time, well that tape was "not the best" but wasn't terrible either. So when the movie came on TCM it was late at night. Well it seems that Qwest "jumps" servers between 1 am and 2 am in the morning. This leaves about a 3 or 4 second gap in whatever you are recording. I know this and keep it in mind. Well as it turns out the Cable version was excellent except for that 3-4 second gap, so I edited out them frames from the Cable version on my computer then recorded just a half a minute from the VHS that I rented (which was a bit lighter), I took that short clip and darkened it just a shade then inserted just the frames I wanted into my Cable version. Voilla! You would never know the difference. Patience is the key to making good movies! Hope all this "babble" helps you.

ask me about:

DVD-R vs DVD+R

the 4 gig barrier on your pc for 2 hour movies

DVD players vs. TV/DVD players.

"Rendering times and process" that the "know-it-alls" don't know.

Trial and errors of different programs for editing.

Jerry C.

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What if you want to tape more than 1 movie in a row.One warning about VHS to DVD. which I did. I put all my VHS movies on DVD on the T.V.they were fine but when I put it in a computer I realized that at the top and bottom of the screen there were artifacts. I don't know what to call them but when I record to DVD from the T.V. no artifacts apparently the T.V. crops the images. I'm no expert but what I heard was MPeg compression deals with changes from one frame to another so that's why there's different amounts of time on the disc. For instance I use S-Video which 80 min is 4 G.B USUALLY. to put a movie into my computer letterbox is a smaller file than full screen because some of the picture never changes the top and the bottom so that's what might happen. So my advise is if your putting VHS to DVD to use a program that will crop the top and bottom that's got the artifacts which you should see on the computer because that's what's taken up unnessassary space. As for the ending times someone from TCM e-mailed me and told me to add time to my recordings because I contacted them about The Clarvoyant ironiclly I got the last 10 min. of Red Lily which some people missed but I'm missing the end of Clarvoyant but I'm sure they're going to be more careful because one of their programmers went to the forum to apologize about the times.

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Hi MaryS. I'm glad someone else is going thru this DVD experience besides me. I'm going to break your message down and answer each item by itself with somewhat of a short answer the best I can. If it isn't clear enough you can email me directly at a later time.

1. I always have a set of 5 tapes ready to go on my VHS recorder, just in case I have to panic and start a series of recordings.

2. I'm pretty sure I understand your "artifacts" problem. I think we have all seen what your talking about with the "snow" or "garble" at the (usually) bottom of the screen. This is actually where the sound recordings (linear tracks) run along the tape, now the image or video part runs diagonal on the tape and when your particular machine (due to adjustments) overlaps the two tracks (video with audio) you get this "artifact" Only way to get rid of this is to do fine adjustments on your particular machine. Now I have not had this problem in some time, and I am on my second (old stock of VHS machines around the house) recorder here in my office and the last two have not had this problem. If they did I would open them up for adjustments.

3. Your next situation talks about "S-Video, 80-minutes and 4 gb." Im going to exclude the S-Video, this has nothing to do with your problems. It's just the best feed we have at the time. The 80 minutes relates directly to the 4gb though. First off to exceed on your computer the 4 gb barrier you need to change your harddrive settings from FAT-32 to NTFS. This will break that barrier and you can then record as long and as much disc space as your have available. Meaning, if you have 23gb available and you go to set your "record time" you will see that you can now go beyond 80-90 minutes ( the time will be unlimited except by the size available of disc space.) I usually set mine for about 10 minutes more than the actually movie. Like I said before, I start my recordings first on my VHS when the advertisements start then have my computer ready to go when I see the first Logo screen or on TCM "feature presentation" screen". I can always go back after the recording and edit this part off if it gets clipped. I think this also covers your "letter box" vs. "full screen" issue... where I believe your comparing the smaller screen size with less than 4 gb size.

4. Ending times for me are not an issue, since I always give more than enough time in the beginning.

I hope this clears up some of your issues, specially the 4 gb part. If you are not sure how to set your disc for NTFS I can discuss this more with you. IT DOES NOT DELETE YOUR INFORMATION! So you can do this at any time. Now it only works under Windows 2000 or Windows XP (all versions.) and it only takes a few minutes, and there is so much to gain by doing this.

jerry c

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I noticed that last night they had a 125 minute movie placed in a 120 minute time-slot on the schedule. Night of the Iguana. I set my recorder for 135 minutes, and I managed to catch the beginning and the end of it.

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?1. I always have a set of 5 tapes ready to go on my VHS recorder, just in case I have to panic and start a series of recordings.?

 

Wow, I thought I was a recording fanatic. I?ve got about 3 tapes on stand-by, two VCRs, and one DVD.

 

I record on tape and I dub to DVD. This saves me a lot of space on the DVD, in case I set my recording times wrong. I lose almost no quality using this system. My Panasonic VHS-DVD recorder does a good dubbing job.

 

Now, if I were to try to describe my cable connections, I couldn?t do it. I?ve added to them over the years. I?ve got a sat dish tuner, stereo inputs and outputs on my TV, two VCR players, and two DVD players, routing switches for a standard cable connector and other routing switches for my line-in and out cables, plus a routing switcher to two separate TVs, on in my office and one in the bedroom.

 

I?ve got to be careful not to push the wrong switch or I?ll record my local news (which I?m watching) instead of a TCM movie (which I?m supposed to be recording).

 

I have 7 remote controls. One for my hi-fi stereo system, one for each of the other gadgets. The morning is the worst time for me. I have to have a lot of coffee before I can figure out how to switch everything over from my bedroom TV to my office TV, and figure out which remote control to press to just get the TV in my office to turn on. Some mornings I can?t get a picture on my office TV, and I have to go around flipping different switches and pressing different remote controls, trying to get my TV to work.

 

One morning my computer mouse wouldn?t work. I looked down at it and it seems that the mouse cable was missing. After a couple of minutes, I finally figured out that I wasn?t using the mouse. I was moving one of my small remote controls around on my desk, thinking it was the computer mouse. Other times I click on my mouse, trying to change channels on the TV. That doesn?t work. That?s when I need some more coffee so I can wake up. I?m glad I don?t work for NASA.

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Hi Fred. I assume your recording to DVD thru a computer or DVD recorder since I don't know of any VHS ever made that gave you that "fine" of adjustment for recording. IF you are recording to a DVD Recorder 1. does your machine have an internal harddrive? 2. If it does not have an internal harddrive are you able to go back and "edit" any movie after the fact? as I do on my computer. I much prefer my method, I have looked at the Panasonic models with hard drives even downloading the manuals online to see if this is possible, but it's not from what I have read. I use a program called Studio vs. 8 along with my Studio USB Moviebox and have nothing but good results since figuring it all out. I too had that 80-90 barrier in the beginning and nobody had an answer til I talked with one of my IBM buddies who was also going this this a couple years ago. He had already converted his drive to NTFS and no problems with time. Also along with doing it on the computer you have many options to "improve" what you wind up with. Alot of the older movies have image quality problems, now TCM does do a great job on sending out a very high quality picture, but when your dealing with rentals or older VHS that you pick up, the images can be a problem, so to do some enhancements is actually "fun time" for me to see just how good I can make it. Sound is another issue, there are no "filters" that I have found that can deal with sound qualitys.

Rending time for me is still an issue, seems to me if it's a b&w and under 90 minutes in length, I go run thru rending in about an hour, NOW if' it's over 90 minutes and in color... well now your talking great rending times. Anyway from 7 to 11 hours. Be prepared for this. I usually do my rendings at night time when I go to bed. Set it and forget it!... seems I've heard that before somewhere...LOL

I hope this info helps you.

jerry c

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logical,

 

I don?t have a computer DVD system or an internal hard drive for video. I have enough trouble trying to figure out how to work Windows XP, and I figured it would be too complicated for me to record DVDs via my computer. So I got a ?stand alone? VHS to DVD recorder, a Panasonic DMR-ES30V. I have a separate Sony player so I can copy DVD to DVD, or I can watch one DVD while recording another.

 

Also, if any of my separate recorders go out, I can just toss them out and buy a new one, and I wanted to keep my computer system as simple and as separate as possible.

 

At times, I?ll be recording one TCM film on one VCR, while dubbing another film from VCR to DVD, while talking to you guys on the computer. I find it easier to have all these units separate.

 

Fred

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I'm impressed Fred. Good for you that you have multiple systems to work with. Acutally I have 3 computer systems here in front of me. I have one along dedicated to making my DVD's, although I have done quite abit with music files for me and my kids on this unit also. No problems with disc space on it either. Now on your DVD to DVD that you use for dubbing, do you have problems with "copy right protection" on rental movies? I know we should not discuss this openly here, but it's a fact, people do do it. I don't do it for a business, nor do I turn a "buck" from it. Just for my own collection and my theory is, If I've bought it, I own them rights to back up my collection. But there are ways around that problem if you need help. We can discuss privately away from here.

jerry c

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Hi again Fred... love your description of your system. I know what your going through with remotes and channels etc. The one thing I can suggest is to make sure your digital feed to your recorders is as close as possilbe before all the other peripherals. Remember all them connections lead to signal lose. When you take from VHS to DVD, what program do you use? I have tried a few and none works like Studio. I have thought about getting their newest version which is 10, but I have not had any problems with what I have. Their newest version has lots more transitions, face effects, etc. I have more than enough of them on hand. Also you did not mention your "rendering" times, have you had any issues with this? OK, I'm gonna make this reply as short as I can.

Ps. I used to work for NASA (Voyager II project) also put in 20 years with IBM (AS/400 CE)

regards,

jerry c

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?The one thing I can suggest is to make sure your digital feed to your recorders is as close as possilbe before all the other peripherals.?

 

Right, all my ?inputs? to the recorders go direct from my cable box output via A/V cables, except for one ?emergency? standard cable connection to one of my VCRs from my cable box output.

 

Most of my switches are for playback only, so I can switch playback from my two VCRs and my two DVDs. That way I can record a TCM movie via audio/video cables, while watching some other video via the BNC cable (I can?t remember what that cable is called, we used to call it a BNC cable in the TV business).

 

?When you take from VHS to DVD, what program do you use??

 

I use my Panasonic stand-alone VCR/DVD for that. It dubs directly from VHS to DVD with no cables involved.

 

I don?t have ?rendering times? because I don?t use my computer at all.

 

I?m busy using my computer on the internet.

 

?I used to work for NASA (Voyager II project) also put in 20 years with IBM (AS/400 CE)?

 

Dang! A rocket scientist!

 

I?m just a lowly retired news reporter. We could make mistakes and receive awards for them, and nothing would blow up when we made mistakes.

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Hi Fred, I just read your reply about 30 Seconds over Tokyo you wrote back in Feb. You talked about Robert Mitchum (sp? don't like right) anyway, yes he did have a small part in that film, I believe it was his first film that he got credit in. That movie had such a wonderful cast. I wonder why more of them never went on to "star" in more movies. Phyllis Thaxter, I thought played a terrific part, along with the guy who played "Shorty" Madge, Glover, Robert Walker (I love most of his work, ashamed he died young) and I read somewhere about Spencer Tracy, how he took such a small part in that movie to allow others more credit. Just a great movie all around. I watch it every couple weeks. I wrote a post in "information please" about the comment Phyllis Thaxter makes behind the glass when Van Johnson is taking off for the mission. If you read her lips, it looks like she is say's "sh%&, I'll be with you" I found that odd for her to say, also the line about "since Pearl Harbor, there's been so much VELVET"... I didn't understand that comment. Speaking of things like this, what's your take on the movie "So Proudly We Hail"... did (John) George Reeves survive? When he left Claudette Colbert to go to Manatua bay for supplies. The beginning and the ending where the clergyman is reading her a letter from "John." All the times I've seen that, it suddenly dawned on me that it sounds like he made it.

--- just more of my babble ---

jerry c

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