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Any Gary Cooper Fans?


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Hey, Ang, I loved that list, and how specific you got for each character. I would never have thought of you as a cold fish, either...

 

I think Jean Arthur as Babe Bennett is pretty close to my personality. I am still idealistic, but have an edge that has been created by disappointments.

 

And although it sounds impossible, I think I am equal parts of Helen Ramirez and Amy in High Noon. I get indignant at hypocrisy and am very emotional like Helen, but I have a cold streak - a hesitance to commit like Amy.... and an intolerance of guns.

 

Oh, I don't believe I actually just compared myself to yucky Amy.....

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Hey, Ang, I loved that list, and how specific you got for each character. I would never

have thought of you as a cold fish, either...

 

After further thought, she's right, she's a cold fish. :P

 

I think Jean Arthur as Babe Bennett is pretty close to my personality. I am still idealistic,

but have an edge that has been created by disappointments.

 

"An edge created by disappointments." I love that line! So are you telling me you used to be sweet? :P

 

And although it sounds impossible, I think I am equal parts of Helen Ramirez and Amy

in High Noon.

 

That's the perfect mix!

 

I get indignant at hypocrisy and am very emotional like Helen,

 

You? Emotional? Noooooooooooooo... :P

 

but I have a cold streak - a hesitance to commit like Amy.... and an intolerance of guns.

 

:D

 

Oh, I don't believe I actually just compared myself to yucky Amy.....

 

Bite your emotional tongue! Lamby is not yucky. She's sweet and pure.

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>

> I think Jean Arthur as Babe Bennett is pretty close to my personality. I am still idealistic,

> but have an edge that has been created by disappointments.

>

> "An edge created by disappointments." I love that line! So are you telling me you used to be sweet? :P

 

I'm still sweet!

 

> I get indignant at hypocrisy and am very emotional like Helen,

>

> You? Emotional? Noooooooooooooo... :P

 

:):)

 

> Bite your emotional tongue! Lamby is not yucky. She's sweet and pure.

 

Photobucket

 

Photobucket

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> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> Hey, Ang, I loved that list, and how specific you got for each character. I would never have thought of you as a cold fish, either...

>

> I think Jean Arthur as Babe Bennett is pretty close to my personality. I am still idealistic, but have an edge that has been created by disappointments.

>

> And although it sounds impossible, I think I am equal parts of Helen Ramirez and Amy in High Noon. I get indignant at hypocrisy and am very emotional like Helen, but I have a cold streak - a hesitance to commit like Amy.... and an intolerance of guns.

>

> Oh, I don't believe I actually just compared myself to yucky Amy.....

 

If I was to compare myself to any of the ladies on that list, it would probably be Sugarpuss O'Shea - I guess that comes closest of all. ;)

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> I'm still sweet!

>

> Yeah, well, prove it, Yucky Amy.

 

I suppose I deserve that nickname, I should have known better than to spill my guts to you.... :)

 

> O' Canada protests everything. I watched the NHL All-Star game tonight (the lone

> American), so I'm in good with them.

 

There are stars in hockey? :)

 

 

> What's that newspaper cap from?

Newspaper cap courtesy of Preston Sturges......it's from "The Miracle of Morgan's Creek".....

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*I would never have thought of you as a cold fish, either...*

 

Inside I feel like a red hot mama but it just doesn?t show on the outside. I totally freeze up around guys I find myself attracted to which doesn?t bode well for an active social life.

 

*And although it sounds impossible, I think I am equal parts of Helen Ramirez and Amy in High Noon.*

 

It?s not impossible; people have many different sides so I can see how you might identify with both characters. Nobody wants to be compared to ?Yucky Amy? though, :P.

 

One exchange between Helen and Amy that stands out to me is when Amy says she understand how Helen feels being a Mexican woman in that town. Helen says something like ?You do, that?s good. I don?t understand you.? I think she should have said something like ?How can you, you spoiled little white girl!?; then slap her and kick her out of her room ;).

 

 

That pick of Grace with her moustache cracks me up every time!! She really should?ve shaved the old soup strainer before that photo shoot. I guess she was too busy fretting over whether she should save her man or not and just didn?t have the time ;).

 

?Babe? is a neat character in that she kinda lost her innocence so to speak when she moved to the big city but Longfellow (what an appropriate character name for him!) helped her see there were still good guys out there and that she didn?t have to give up on people b/c they weren?t all bad. We could sure use someone like him around now with all the corruption in government scandals coming out every day it seems.

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> Inside I feel like a red hot mama but it just doesnt show on the outside. I totally freeze up around guys I find myself attracted to which doesnt bode well for an active social life.

 

You just need a white hot knight in shining armor to warm you up.....I used to get so flustered when I talked to my hubby before we were married - I could feel the red hot blush coming into my cheeks and would get so embarrassed..... maybe you could practice on someone you are just a little attracted to..... :)

 

> One exchange between Helen and Amy that stands out to me is when Amy says she understand how Helen feels being a Mexican woman in that town. Helen says something like You do, thats good. I dont understand you. I think she should have said something like How can you, you spoiled little white girl!; then slap her and kick her out of her room ;).

 

Yucky lamby is soo condescending in that scene, isn't she?

 

> That pick of Grace with her moustache cracks me up every time!! She really shouldve shaved the old soup strainer before that photo shoot. I guess she was too busy fretting over whether she should save her man or not and just didnt have the time ;).

 

She probably has to shave her back, too. :)

 

> Babe is a neat character in that she kinda lost her innocence so to speak when she moved to the big city but Longfellow (what an appropriate character name for him!) helped her see there were still good guys out there and that she didnt have to give up on people b/c they werent all bad. We could sure use someone like him around now with all the corruption in government scandals coming out every day it seems.

 

Boy, that is true!

 

I like Babe the best of all Jean Arthur's characters. She really is so spot on, And of all the snappy female newspaper reporters, Jean Arthur's is the most real to me, the most human. Her reasons for doing what she did to Longfellow are clearcut and seem important. I always feel a little disconnect with Barbara Stanwyck's version of the reporter in Meet John Doe, Ann. Her reality doesn't seem quite as desperate as Babe's. There is something a little meaner in her. She and Babe are both reporters on the make. But somehow, Babe seems innately a little nicer than Ann. There is nothing personal about her attacks on Deeds, and once she realizes how sensitive and good he is, she stops. He brings her back to her natural state- like when she was a "babe"...

 

I like Jean Arthur very much in Mr. Smith, too. In fact, the two roles seem like two parts of the same whole. And her scenes with Thomas Mitchell are so great.... (my first husband was a lot like "Diz". Unfortunately in real life, a drinking buddy does not make the best husband. They just make a good drinking buddy).

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*maybe you could practice on someone you are just a little attracted to*

 

What about this guy? He?s pretty homely and I bet he?d make good practice ;).

 

garyandfaywrayatcostumeparty.jpg

 

 

*She probably has to shave her back, too.*

 

That?s just gross!! :P

 

 

I agree with you that Babe seems one of more human of all the female reporter characters in the movies and we really get a lot of character development with her and she was just such a great actress that you can?t help but love her characters. I gotta disagree though with her reasons for doing what she did as being better than Ann?s in *Meet John Doe*.

 

Babe wanted to be the best at her job and she went hard after stories. She was also gonna get a month?s paid vacation for getting the goods on Deeds even though she made him look foolish and insane. Ann is the breadwinner of her family and has four people to take care of. She comes up with the John Doe idea and then continues to go along with it to help her family and herself while Babe is only looking out for number one.

 

I do think though that Babe was probably the better overall person. When Norton tells Ann he wants to start a third party and be their presidential candidate, she goes along with it and writes the speech where John will announce this to everyone at the convention. It was only when John confronted the bad guys at Norton?s house did she finally see how wrong it was and change her mind. She was more blinded by the material goods than Babe was but again, she was poorer than Babe and I guess I can see Ann?s side of it too.

 

*I like Jean Arthur very much in Mr. Smith, too. In fact, the two roles seem like two parts of the same whole. And her scenes with Thomas Mitchell are so great.... (my first husband was a lot like "Diz". Unfortunately in real life, a drinking buddy does not make the best husband. They just make a good drinking buddy).*

 

That?s good advice, I guess ;). She is great in *Mr. Smith* too but I would say she?s a little more hard boiled in that one than in *Mr. Deeds* even though the roles are pretty similar. I love the scene where she and Diz are getting drunk and she tells him her name is Clarissa and she?s afraid he?s gonna hate it. She played a good drunk :).

 

I would have loved for Jean and Gary to have done more films together but at least they did a couple. She and Barbara Stanwyck are my fave of his leading ladies. I would put Clara Bow in there but they only really acted together in one film *Children of Divorce* and I?ve never seen it. He was in *Wings* and *It* too but they are never on camera at the same time so I don?t really count those. I do have a clip of them in *Children of Divorce* and when I first saw it I got chills when Clara reached out to hold his hand. It may be silly but I couldn?t help it :). Here were two of my fave people actually in the shot at the same time interacting with each other. It was really cool and that film is like my holy grail of movies. I really hope TCM is able to show it one of these years. I wish Clara had been able to do *City Streets* too, then we could have seen them together in a talkie and I would be in movie heaven :x.

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>

> Babe wanted to be the best at her job and she went hard after stories. She was also gonna get a months paid vacation for getting the goods on Deeds even though she made him look foolish and insane. Ann is the breadwinner of her family and has four people to take care of. She comes up with the John Doe idea and then continues to go along with it to help her family and herself >while Babe is only looking out for number one.

 

You are right. I didn't really think it out like that.

 

> I do think though that Babe was probably the better overall person. When Norton tells Ann he wants to start a third party and be their presidential candidate, she goes along with it and writes the speech where John will announce this to everyone at the convention. It was only when John confronted the bad guys at Nortons house did she finally see how wrong it was and change her mind. She was more blinded by the material goods than Babe was but again, she was poorer than Babe and I guess I can see Anns side of it too.

 

This is what I could never understand about Ann - why did she write that speech? Maybe she was so used to trying to get money that it didn't really sink in until later? You can see the wheels turning in her head - she is uncomfortable, and maybe a little afraid of Norton.... I guess we all do things once in a while that we are not proud of.....

 

>

> I would have loved for Jean and Gary to have done more films together but at least they did a couple. She and Barbara Stanwyck are my fave of his leading ladies. I would put Clara Bow in there but they only really acted together in one film *Children of Divorce* and Ive never seen it. He was in *Wings* and *It* too but they are never on camera at the same time so I dont really count those. I do have a clip of them in *Children of Divorce* and when I first saw it I got chills when Clara reached out to hold his hand. It may be silly but I couldnt help it :). Here were two of my fave people actually in the shot at the same time interacting with each other. It was really cool and that film is like my holy grail of movies. I really hope TCM is able to show it one of these years. I wish Clara had been able to do *City Streets* too, then we could have seen them together in a talkie and I would be in movie heaven :x.

 

I like Stanwyck and Arthur the best too. And I certainly hope that you get your wish, and TCM shows COD someday - that we all might benefit! I always like to see stars who are in love behind the screen as well as on screen- it is electric when they do touch, or talk to one another. It adds another dimension to what is already a good movie.

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> {quote:title=coopsgirl wrote:}{quote}

> I would have loved for Jean and Gary to have done more films together but at least they did a couple. She and Barbara Stanwyck are my fave of his leading ladies. I would put Clara Bow in there but they only really acted together in one film *Children of Divorce* and I?ve never seen it. He was in *Wings* and *It* too but they are never on camera at the same time so I don?t really count those. I do have a clip of them in *Children of Divorce* and when I first saw it I got chills when Clara reached out to hold his hand. It may be silly but I couldn?t help it :). Here were two of my fave people actually in the shot at the same time interacting with each other. It was really cool and that film is like my holy grail of movies. I really hope TCM is able to show it one of these years. I wish Clara had been able to do *City Streets* too, then we could have seen them together in a talkie and I would be in movie heaven :x.

 

"Children of Divorce" sounds like an intriguing title. Does anyone know for a fact that it is not a lost film? Being a Paramount silent, I would not be surprised if they'd lost it or failed to preserve it and keep it in good condition. But if it does exist, we can only hope TCM will show it at some point!

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*Children of Divorce* has been restored and preserved and a copy is held in the Library of Congress. I don?t have access to youtube at work or I would post the link but the little snippet I talked about seeing is from a doc on silent films called *Hollywood*. If you go on youtube and search for Clara Bow you should be able to find it.

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> {quote:title=coopsgirl wrote:}{quote}

> *Children of Divorce* has been restored and preserved and a copy is held in the Library of Congress. I don’t have access to youtube at work or I would post the link but the little snippet I talked about seeing is from a doc on silent films called *Hollywood*. If you go on youtube and search for Clara Bow you should be able to find it.

 

Thank you very much coopsgirl. I found this one:

 

 

Also found this one - very very nice!

 

 

Message was edited by: Zoetrope

 

Message was edited by: Zoetrope

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One exchange between Helen and Amy that stands out to me is when Amy says she understand how Helen feels being a Mexican woman in that town. Helen says something like ?You do, that?s good. I don?t understand you.? I think she should have said something like ?How can you, you spoiled little white girl!?; then slap her and kick her out of her room ;) .

 

Ahhhh, but she does understand that feeling.

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*You are right. I didn't really think it out like that.*

 

Don?t you know I?m always right? (just kidding ;) )

 

*This is what I could never understand about Ann - why did she write that speech? Maybe she was so used to trying to get money that it didn't really sink in until later? You can see the wheels turning in her head - she is uncomfortable, and maybe a little afraid of Norton.... I guess we all do things once in a while that we are not proud of.....*

 

The movie is supposed to be set a few years earlier than it was made so they would still have been in the depression and I guess Ann was just trying to do whatever she could to make a living even if she knew it was wrong. Her conscious finally got the better of her though at the fancy dinner when she could see what the bad guys were plotting and then when John came in and really exposed them, she knew it was wrong and refused to go along anymore.

 

*I always like to see stars who are in love behind the screen as well as on screen- it is electric when they do touch, or talk to one another. It adds another dimension to what is already a good movie.*

 

The scene in *CoD* that I was talking about is cute b/c Clara?s character got Gary?s character drunk and tricked him into marrying her. He is quite surprised to find her in his bed the next morning and he doesn?t remember how she got there. He truly does look panicked as he is engaged to Esther Ralston?s character (who is a long time friend of Clara's character) and really loves her. Clara plays it cool and coy as she kinda writhes around a little and gives him those big puppy dog eyes and pretends to pout a little and be upset that he doesn?t remember marrying her.

 

children-divorce3.jpg

 

It?s fun to see them together at that particular time b/c she was enjoying the peak of her career and he was brand new in his. Their quite torrid affair at the time was real but also partly a publicity stunt as Clara could see he had real talent and she was great about helping people out who she thought deserved it like Jean Harlow and Jack Oakie as well as Gary.

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> {quote:title=coopsgirl wrote:}{quote}

> The scene in *CoD* that I was talking about is cute b/c Clara?s character got Gary?s character drunk and tricked him into marrying her. He is quite surprised to find her in his bed the next morning and he doesn?t remember how she got there. He truly does look panicked as he is engaged to Esther Ralston?s character (who is a long time friend of Clara's character) and really loves her. Clara plays it cool and coy as she kinda writhes around a little and gives him those big puppy dog eyes and pretends to pout a little and be upset that he doesn?t remember marrying her.

 

That scene really does sound cute - with those big eyes of her she looked simply adorable. Was this movie made after "Wings" or before it, I wonder?

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It was made after *Wings* and *It*. I believe it was her follow up film to *It*. It didn?t do all that well though b/c it?s a drama and people were used to seeing her play the happy flapper usually and especially after her role in *It*, that seems to be what people wanted. It did get some critical praise though. There are some hilarious stories regarding Gary?s involvement in *CoD*.

 

He had only had two major roles prior to *CoD*. He played a supporting role in *The Winning of Barbara Worth* and the lead in *Arizona Bound*. Both of these were westerns and that was where he had the bulk of his film experience up to that point. In *CoD* he is supposed to be a rich playboy type and he wore fancy clothes instead of his usual cowboy duds. He was very nervous and uncomfortable and he did such a bad job that he was fired. The guy they replaced him with (don?t know his name) was even worse though so they managed to track Gary down and rehired him.

 

In one scene he is supposed to kind of breeze into a party and saunter about the room holding a glass of champagne and walk up to Clara?s character. It took more than 20 takes to get it as he kept spilling the champagne all over Clara. They ended up shooting some of his scenes with him sitting down instead of standing b/c his long legs were visibly shaking.

 

It got even worse when he was supposed to kiss Esther Ralston, his character?s fianc?e. He was mortified at the idea of kissing a woman in front of all those people and on camera. He thought it was indecent to do that in public especially with a woman he barely knew. The director, who knew of his relationship with Clara, told him ?I hope you do a better job then tomorrow in the kissing scenes with Clara!? ? ha!

 

That fear of kissing on camera would follow him for his next few pictures as the directors would have to coax him into actually holding and kissing these actresses. He would just barely put his arms around them and they would have to tell him stuff like ?she?s not gonna break?. Poor guy, I would have felt the same way. I?m glad he got over it though :x.

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Oh, it is hilarious to think of poor Coop struggling to make the adjustment from a rough cowboy to a gentleman with fancy clothes. I mean, since I know a lot of his movies, I can more or less accept him equally in any of the parts he played, but it is another thing altogether to imagine him still wet behind the ears and trying to "fit the part" when he had to do it for the first time in his career.

 

It's a good thing they were able to get him back for that picture!

 

The part about his being incredibly shy about kissing actresses when making movies probably speaks a lot about his character. He just seems very straightforward and old-fashioned in such an effortless way. Many other guys would have probably been all too eager to kiss all the women in the movie, I'm sure, if they had the chance.

 

By the way, what was Coop's first talkie?

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He first spoke a few words of dialogue in *The Shopworn Angel* in 1928 as they tacked on a talkie scene at the end to what was otherwise a silent film (now lost). His first all talkie was *The Virginian* in 1929. The studio actually had him scheduled to make a different picture as his first talkie but when *The Virginian* came up he lobbied to get that role since he felt more comfortable in westerns at that time.Westerns only make up about a quarter of his films so he really was able to increase his range as his career moved into the early to mid 30s and he also didn?t want to be typecast as a western actor only.

 

He was definitely not shy with the ladies in private but I think it?s very sweet how he was so nervous to do the romantic stuff on camera. Once he got past the nerves though his kiss packed a mighty wallup ;). Laraine Day, his leading lady in *Dr. Wassell* (1944) told an interviewer decades later how surprised she was when he kissed her during a scene b/c it was so much better than most movie kisses she had had before. I?m so jealous!

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