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Any Gary Cooper Fans?


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> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> > ha! It just occurred to me that both the women in Will's life got so mad at him for

> > not behaving the way they wanted him to. Poor guy couldn't do anything to please them, lol!!

> >

> > So maybe women can be a little difficult sometimes? Noooo......

>

> This is where I really empathize ....... and I'm sure my husband would have something to say about it too. He feels like Will a LOT.

 

Hahahahahaaa!! That is too cute!

 

And I'm sure I'd like to read your take on the Destry correllation.

 

In fact, this makes me think of movies about similar "triangular" scenarios. GWTW

has been mentioned, though not in that context. Mogambo comes to mind.

And Shane.

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Hi, Lively Gal -- GEEZ!!!! You're going to make me do this, aren't you Frankie

G.? You're going to make me watch "HIGH NOON" aint'cha? You're going to make

me watch this movie and weigh in on the conversation, aren't you...AREN'T YOU???!!!!!!!!!

 

Can any man without power over you make you do something? Hmmmmm... :)

 

Have you ever seen High Noon? If you haven't, I think you'd like it well enough, Miss

I Don't Watch Westerns. You'd like the tension and the triangle we've been talking

about. There's so much that is not said. All we have to go on is the feelings we get

with the characters. Lots of speculation.

 

You dad-blasted {delete - delete - delete} you!! Argggggh!!!!!!!!

 

That would be a loving compliment from Miss G. :P

 

Lemme axe you sumthin'.

 

Would you list three or four actresses who you find COLD and three or four actresses

you find WARM???

 

It's the characters more so than the performers with me. Grace Kelly is icy in some

roles (Mogambo) and warm in others. And I love her "icy" in Mogambo. For

me, it's a complete turn-on when a guy can get a cold gal to warm up.

 

Bette Davis is an actress who plays cold with me... and I like Bette. Hedy Lamarr

seems cold to me, but I have only seen one of her films... and I loved her character in

that film: The Strange Woman. Tallulah Bankhead makes me want to shield my

jewels and I've only seen her in Lifeboat and Batman, the show. I'm worried

about watching Greta Garbo because I have a cold feeling with her. My hope is that

she's like Marlene. I'm a little unsure of Lana Turner. I'm not sure if she'll connect with

me or not. I'm also wary of the 30s dames, like Kay Francis.

 

As for the warms:

 

There are different feelings of "warm" I get.

 

Gloria Grahame is a "hot" actress for me. She connects with my sexual side. So does

Claudia Cardinale and Kim Novak.

 

The "sweet warms" to me are Ingrid Bergman, Cathy O'Donnell, Gail Russell, and

Teresa Wright.

 

Then there is the "playful warm" of actresses like Marlene, Carole Lombard, Jean Arthur,

and Thelma Ritter.

 

And then there's the "emotional warm" of actresses like Maureen O'Hara and Ava Gardner.

 

If I had to choose my favorite kind of "warm," it would be the "sweet" of Ingrid, Cathy, Gail,

and Teresa. Yet, I still think Carole would be the most fun to have as a wife. I'm now

thinking Maureen would be, too.

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Oh, no.... really, I haven't watched Destry recently enough to make any other correlation except that he and Amy were alike.... I was hoping to zoom in with that brilliant observation and then stand back and let everyone else do the talking.......

 

I still haven't watched it on Youtube yet.

 

And I am coming up a dead blank on triangle scenearios, though I am sure there are a bunch of them.... oh does Red Dust count, since you already mentioned Mogambo? Naaaaah.

 

I think I used up all my brains on High Noon. Me no thinky anymore.

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Can any man without power over you make you do something? Hmmmmm...

 

Okay...I guess you?re right. :-(

 

Have you ever seen High Noon?

 

Yes, I have seen ?HIGH NOON? but if I?d have known the conversation was going to be this lively, I would have watched it during its recent airing on TCM.

 

If you haven't, I think you'd like it well enough, Miss I Don't Watch Westerns.

 

Did I ever declare ?I Don?t Watch Westerns? at least publicly? Not my tippy top favorite genre but I did enjoy ?Warlock? ?The Last Sunset? ?Duel At Diablo? ?Blazing Saddles? ?Tall in the Saddle? ?Forty Guns? ?Johnny Guitar? and more. Yeah yeah, I know...I know...the towering classics are not on my list but there?s some I like and many I haven?t seen, I?m afraid. Listen, you know me: I?m a Noir Gal. I want to walk down a dark (hopefully) safe rain-soaked street to go into a bar to meet a strong silent kind of violent man (who would beat up bad guyz NOT me), wearing a trenchcoat...and nothing else ;-)

 

You'd like the tension and the triangle we've been talking about. There's so much that is not said. All we have to go on is the feelings we get with the characters. Lots of speculation.

 

Yes I saw that there were speculations galore in those posts. We fill in the blanks of film characters by the incidents in our lwn life. My feelings for Gary Cooper has changed in recent years but the conversation about Helen vs. Amy totally sparked my interest in re-visiting the film. The speculations between you and the ladies were very well written and compelling.

 

Thank you so much for humoring me and listing your ?sweet? ?emotional? ?playfully? warm actresses and the cold ones too. I love the actresses on your list. (Pssst! Where would Jeanne Crain and Gene Tierney be on your list?)

 

In fact, this makes me think of movies about similar "triangular" scenarios. GWTW has been mentioned, though not in that context. Mogambo comes to mind. And Shane. - Miss Goddess.

 

It?s not a western, but the first movie that came to my mind was Cary Grant & Deborah Kerr in ?THE GRASS IS GREENER.? Interesting idea for a thread.

 

Message was edited by CineMaven becuz Frank...you DO have power over me. :D

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How do, Ford Floozy -- And I've enjoyed it... except when you purposely irk me.

 

Now do you really think I'd purposely irk you? :P Vroom, vroom.

 

OK. I buy that Helen is warm on the outside but cold on the inside, and Amy is cold

on the outside and warm on the inside.

 

Well, now! I'm glad you understand where I'm coming from.

 

But I don't think that Helen is SIMPLY a user. She is not all one thing, which is how

you presented her before.

 

I think her history is that of using men but Will surprised her. I believe she is/was using

Harvey. Do you think Helen will ever just be with a man because she loves him? If she can

do this, then I'd say she's no longer a user. I just find her kind of woman to be cold. I like

the girls who want to be loved, who want to love back, and who believe in love. They

are the warm ones, with me.

 

And I think Helen may be a bit afraid of what Miller can do to her, but her motivations

to leave are more about cynicism and a fatalistic approach to life.

 

I agree with you. I firmly believe Helen is afraid of Frank but she's not getting out of town

only because of that. Not at all. She hates the town and the people in the town and she

would be in a horrible situation if Frank were to regain control of the town again. She doesn't

want to return to Frank.

 

What MissG said about her rings very true to me. Helen sees Will going down and

doesn't wish to watch it. If Will is gone, she has no reason to stay.

 

But Will was leaving town prior to Frank Miller showing up on the scene and she wasn't

going anywhere. It really has nothing to do with Will. It has everything to do with her

livelihood. How can she exist in a town run by Frank?

 

If she were really as greedy, power hungry and horrible as you say, she would stay

and make a profit from Will's downfall, like all the rest of the townspeople think they are

going to do.

 

Ohhh, I don't think she's that bad. She isn't going to sell someone out to make a

buck. She's not ruthless or without morals.

 

She could get around Miller, I think, if she really wanted to, but her heart is not in

the BUSINESS anymore.

 

I don't think she can get around Frank. She's at a serious disadvantage with him and

she knows how he's going to treat her and her business. She must get out.

 

What you say about Helen may be true, but she has changed and she certainly

learned her mistake don't you think?

 

I don't believe she has changed when it comes to love or how she treats men, but I do

believe she has come a long way from shacking up with the "Frank Millers" of the

world. I believe she's now on the good side of business, not the bad.

 

I think that if Helen really wanted to still make a buck off of men, if money was her

real motive she would stay and take a little torture with Frank, suck up to him, and

then oh, my. That town would be just full of men wanting her services....but that

is not what she wants anymore, is it?

 

No, I'm with you on all of that. I don't think Helen is purely about money, but she's

all about her business. I believe the two are different. There are many people whose

life is their business and they are not just chasing the cash. Their business is more

to them than just the cash. This is Helen, to me.

 

I can understand Frank's viewpoint about one's belief system going hand in hand

with one's love of a spouse.... and I do see this in the movie. I think that is what

makes the movie work. If Will were a hoodlum, Amy would not be able to let go

of her beliefs, I think.

 

Yes, you have it right. Amy isn't going to commit to a "Frank Miller." What kind of

belief system would she have if she did? She might as well toss it out.

 

I think you are right about Amy's instinct taking over, and I agree with Frank's

sentence "Are you all in, or not?" Amy is all in. Do you think what swayed her is

not just that Will is her man, but that standing up for him is the right thing to do?

Or do you think she simply had had enough of her happiness being killed, and she

struck, like a lioness? If it's the first, then she is trying to live by her principles, even

if the specifics look like they go against those very principles. She must pick which

is the more moral thing to do. That is why it takes her so long to come to a

decision. If it is the second scenario, then I think that High Noon makes a very

apt statement about violence begetting violence...if even Amy can be persuaded to kill.

 

I believe someone can stick to their "guns" when they are standing outside the kitchen,

but when you're in that kitchen with the man you have committed to, it's another

story. In otherwords, it's easy to be high and mighty when standing dry.

 

Isn't it interesting that every single person in the movie has to make a decision based

on their convictions or lack thereof? I can't remember another movie in which every

character must make a decision.

 

That's a very good point. When you have something to lose, you become more afraid. The

young boy has nothing to lose, so he's fearless.

 

And Frank, what makes Amy's decision to drop her beliefs to protect Will so

wonderful? What makes it any different from the rest of the townspeople running

away to protect their families? I think the answer is that Amy knows what is right

and tries to do it, no matter what cost to her. The townspeople know what is right,

and run to avoid having to make the decision. They can't take the cost to

themselves. Unfortunately, by running, they ARE paying a cost, and making a decision.

 

I agree with you. Amy is no different than the rest, initially. She wants to avoid

confrontation because she is afraid to lose what she has. She's also holding out

because of her belief system.

 

One more thing about Helen. I think Helen knows what is right, and sees others

abandoning it. She already knows the worst in human nature, and has paid the

cost. She's lost Will already. She decides that what is right and wrong doesn't

matter anymore, because good people will die. She knows the cost and has

always seen it. But she is not chosen to fight for Will, he doesn't want her to. She

would fight for her man, no matter what side he was on, for love, not principle. Principles

don't matter in love.

 

I believe Helen would definitely stand and fight with her man, but I don't believe she'd do

so because of love. She's just a fighter and a survivor. She would have stood and fought

beside Frank Miller just as much as she'd stand and fight beside Will Kane. Do you think

she loved Frank?

 

This movie is pretty great when you can see complexity like that in every character.

 

And all of this is done in REAL TIME. High Noon is definitely my kind of

western. I know many prefer the fun of Rio Bravo, but I love the tension and depth

that's found in High Noon, far more.

 

Howdy, Champoo Floozy :P -- Excellent rebuttal, Mr Grimes, but I still stand

by my belief that Will backed out and for good reason---he wasn't comfortable that

all Helen was and did could be put behind them.

 

You're wrong! :P

 

Maybe, to your point of view, she resented that he would expect it without first

declaring he would marry her. "You want me to give up all I worked to get...for what??"

This sounds "cold" to your ears, whereas I just think it's wise. She could end up

dead without enough money to secure her future when she's too old to rely on men.

 

But if Helen is as wise and in touch with what kind of man Will is, as you say she is,

then she should know to trust him. Where's her faith in the man she speaks so

highly of? Why would she be afraid of Will?

 

And Will giving up Marshalling for "a store" as you say is not so much sacrifice

when he's leaving with a pretty young, uncomplicated bride and all the good

wishes of the townsfolk.

 

This goes back to Jackie's comments about men that she made while you were away.

No, no, no. Not the one about us being no good dogs. :P She mentioned how it can be

tough for a man to give up what he knows, to leave his profession. Will is hesitant to

give up the badge. He's still not sure about what he's doing. There is some doubt

with him. I don't think he doubts Amy, it's that he doubts he can be a guy who runs a

store after being the guy who protects a town. It's not easy to relinquish such power. But

he SACRIFICES this for Amy.

 

What would he have if he married Helen? Stripped of his badge and spat upon by

the hypocrites of Hadleyville. The irony is this is practically what happens to him

anyway, and for doing right by those hypocrites.

 

He'd have a life and family with Helen. That matters more than anything else. Or, it

should.

 

To his credit, maybe he didn't want that to happen to Helen any more than to

himself. You see all this as selfishness on the part of Helen and Will and I don't.

It's not idealistic, it's not even truly good, that much I agree. But it is very human,

realistic and characteristic of two people who met at that stage of their lives.

 

I just don't see Will worrying about what others think. He wasn't going to church. He

walks in the front door to see Helen. He is who he is.

 

Would Helen hold Will in such high regard if she felt he was judging her for her past?

 

Absolutely. Helen knows her way of life is to be judged, it's not right. You think she

was raised to think being a woman who lives off of men is right? Of course not. Will

represents the best in human nature, she knows that his "judgements" are correct

and she can still furiously resent them because they are true. Nothing stings like

the truth. She knows he knows her better than anyone else. And I think she knows

that he thinks better of her than she probably does of herself. So I agree with you

there, too.

 

That was terrific! Yes, I can see all of this being true. I think Helen is a realist. Where

I disagree with you is in her being honest. She's honest when she's talking firm to

people, but I think she's hiding behind her toughness. She has to show a "thick skin,"

but she's hurting underneath. And it's not all because of Will, either. I say she is a

cold woman, but there is warmth inside of her that could come out if she only allowed

it. But she's frightened to do so. She's afraid she'll be taken advantage of; that she'll

be the one who is used. So, to combat this, she does the using.

 

P.S. I'm wondering now if we are really to view Amy as being so childish. It doesn't

seem like much of a character when you put it like that. Foreman and whoever else

worked on her character said "she's young and stubborn and doesn't know what she's

doing". Wow, great partner they created for our hero. Maybe Grace's somewhat limited

interpretation is why we view her this way.

 

I love Grace's performance because it truly befits the character. Grace was extremely

green as an actress and Amy is extremely green as a woman. It's the perfect fit. The

only thing Amy is struggling with is "why?" She doesn't understand the situation or her

man. She's in the dark. This is not her fault.

 

I wish I could give you my presentation on this because I feel it would be easier for me to

explain. The first exchange between Will and Amy and then the conversation Amy has

with Helen are so very vital to understanding Amy. Amy is terribly honest with her words

whereas Helen is not. Helen is a bit cryptic.

 

P.S.S. Regarding Amy choosing Will, her husband, or her beliefs, my beliefs are

Scripturally based, and I can't say whether Amy's were or if she was just being

"stubborn" and fearful of a repetition of what happened to her menfolk. I believe

it's the latter. For myself, I have to disagree with you on where the obligation

lies, but I won't go further into it here.

 

I agree with you, I think Amy turned to religion for comfort and guidance after her father

and brother were killed. She's looking to religion to protect her.

 

And why is it that I see you sitting on the train, like Amy? A gunshot would be fired

and I can hear you saying, "He should have listened to me. Serves him right. Conductor!

Let's get this train a movin'!" :P

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*I still think Carole would be the most fun to have as a wife. I'm now thinking Maureen would be, too.*

 

Frank, I think Carole probably would be the most fun to go back in time and be friends with. She was fun and lively and not pretentious at all.

 

I will always see Maureen O'Hara as the mom from *The Parent Trap* (one of my absolute faves) and she seems like a cool person to know too.

 

 

*I do like what Shiftless had to say about how Will would always remember that she did this,

and that it would make him adore her even more. I can see that.*

 

April, I wonder if this episode will make their marriage stronger or if will tear it apart. It probably wouldn't be a problem so much from Will since he knows she was willing to kill to protect him, but from Amy b/c she'll always have to live with the fact that she did kill a man. If her love for Will is strong enough she'll be able to accept it but if it's not, it might always haunt her and drive a wedge between them.

 

Good observation Wendy about how they covered every type of person in the community and showed how they reacted to the situation. It's amazing how much they managed to cram into that film. This is another very good point as well.

 

*If it is the second scenario, then I think that High Noon makes a very apt statement about violence begetting violence...if even Amy can be persuaded to kill.......*

 

Not to get too overly deep (I guess that's too late though - ha!) it could also just be an example of how there will always be good and always be bad and sometimes good has to play by bad's rules in order to keep the peace. Will doesn't relish having to kill and Amy certainly was against it but sometimes the rules of the game are determined by the other side and you have to either play along or lose.

 

This also reminds me of the scene in *Friendly Persuasion* where Gary is now the Quaker and when the soldier kills his friend and then attacks him, he fights with him and disarms him. Gary then lets the soldier walk away instead of taking revenge and shooting him. I think it's interesting though that Gary didn't give the soldier his gun back. If he had I wonder what the outcome would have been?

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I have to reply to one section of your reply to MissG....

 

>But if Helen is as wise and in touch with what kind of man Will is, as you say she is, then she should know to trust him. Where's her faith in the man she speaks so highly of?

 

Should should should! You are all about should! Let's pretend this is _reality_. Real people don't decide to trust someone and then just do it...oh so simple. It's one thing to tell yourself that this man is good, I should trust him, it's entirely another to actually do it. If you have a puppy, and she's been abused, does she trust you even if you are nice to her and never hurt her? NO. Not right away. Not for a long time. I know. I have a dog who was abused. Do you know how long it took him to trust us? 4 years. 4 years of constant care and love.

 

Why would she be afraid of Will?

 

FRANK MILLER. All the other men who came before......she might tell herself that she needs to trust Will, but she is human. To do it is a huge step. Did Will wait for her to trust him, did he show patience and give her TIME? Did he trust that with love and care, she would be able to give up her life for him? No, he didn't.

 

>Now do you really think I'd purposely irk you? :P Vroom, vroom.

 

I'm only a red Corvette on the outside. I'm a Buick on the inside.

 

>I think her history is that of using men but Will surprised her. I believe she is/was using Harvey. Do you think Helen will ever just be with a man because she loves him?

 

She ALREADY WAS. No, I don't think she will be with another man because she loves him, because she already had the one love of her life. Fine, so she's back to being a user, big deal. But I don't think she used Will.

 

>If she can do this, then I'd say she's no longer a user. I just find her kind of woman to be cold. I like the girls who want to be loved, who want to love back, and who believe in love. They are the warm ones, with me.

 

I know Helen believes in love, but not it's power to redeem everything and fix everything. For her, it is loss, always. And you expect her to act like a schoolgirl. Maybe Blanche DuBois is more your type.

 

>But Will was leaving town prior to Frank Miller showing up on the scene and she wasn't going anywhere. It really has nothing to do with Will. It has everything to do with her livelihood. How can she exist in a town run by Frank?

 

That is baloney. It does have to do with Will. Will was leaving town with his wife before. Now he is to be sacrificed on the alter of "we don't care" - he is to DIE protecting those who will not lift a finger to help him survive. That is the difference, and it's ALL about Will. It is not about her loss of him to Amy, it is about how corrupt and sick the town is, and how she cannot stand by watch him KILLED.

 

I believe Helen would definitely stand and fight with her man, but I don't believe she'd do

so because of love. She's just a fighter and a survivor. She would have stood and fought

beside Frank Miller just as much as she'd stand and fight beside Will Kane. Do you think

she loved Frank?

 

No. Not one bit. And I don't think she would have stood by Frank any more than she will stand by wrongheaded Harvey. But I do think she would have stood by Will. He was the one true love of her life.

 

Message was edited by: JackFavell

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"The "sweet warms" to me are Ingrid Bergman, Cathy O'Donnell, Gail Russell, and

Teresa Wright." - FrankGrimes.

 

I'm looking at "SOMEWHERE IN TIME" (1980) on the Encore channel now and

there's one of your warm girls: Teresa Wright in the first scene. Yes, she's old

but her voice is still the same with that lovely sweet warm lilt to it. I love time

traveling films (wrote one myself) and I love the romance between Christopher Reeve

and Jane Seymour. (She should have gone further with her career in films, "Dr. Quinn"

notwithstanding). So bittersweet seeing Christopher Reeve young and vibrant. John

Barry's music I believe.

 

Just an aside about warmth...now back to the cold calculating Helen Ramirez and the

baby-faced virginal Amy.

 

Message was edited by CineMaven becuz those margins were really wide.

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Coopsgirl Wrote: April, I wonder if this episode will make their marriage stronger or if will tear it apart. It probably wouldn't be a problem so much from Will since he knows she was willing to kill to protect him, but from Amy b/c she'll always have to live with the fact that she did kill a man. If her love for Will is strong enough she'll be able to accept it but if it's not, it might always haunt her and drive a wedge between them.

 

You've mentioned this before and I think it's fascinating to speculate upon what happens

after. We've done alright speculatin' on what went before! :D

 

It could go as you say, if Amy is the type to brood. I think it may be okay because of

her extreme youth. She can put the ugliness of the past behind easier than someone

older might, who was even more set in their ways.

 

Which leads me back again to Helen. I don't think she'll get over losing her one

love at a time in her life when it hurts more because you have less hope of a future

love to take its place.

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Good evening, Coopsy Woopsy's Girl -- You may think better of him that I do

TV's Frank, but I bet you don?t think about him the same way as I do .

 

:D That's true. I see him with make-up. :P

 

Of course I don't think badly of Will. He was a good man but with a little bit of a bad

boy streak (shacking up with former prostitutes and all) but that makes him more

interesting.

 

Someone is being naughty... :)

 

I?m guessing that Helen was with Frank b/c he was the most powerful man in town and

could offer her protection; that had probably been her modus operandi most of her life.

When Will and his deputies caught him and his gang and they went to prison, he was

now the big man and she moved on to him.

 

I cannot believe we're on the same page. I bet you feel dirty.

 

He was more than willing I believe to play along and I can?t blame him. Helen was

young, smart, and beautiful. I?m guessing that he had never been married before, not

really sure why but that?s just the impression I get. I think he was more focused on his

career and just didn?t have time for a serious relationship. I can also imagine that he

had been with many ?Helen?s? in his day.

 

Ohhh, my, my, my. We're still in full agreement.

 

Here?s how I see it playing out. Will is with Helen and they are having a good time

and he does care about her but he has no plans to marry her and I don?t think she

would have let him know that she wanted to marry him b/c she doesn?t want to show

any signs of weakness or that she really needs someone else. Her independent spirit

is probably something that attracted him thinking they could have a good time

together and not be serious. I believe she did love him b/c we can see how hurt

she was by his leaving. While they were still ?together?, I think Will met Amy. I?m

not really sure under what circumstances but he sees that she?s the kind of woman

he should marry. He probably realized he was going to end up old and alone and he

began courting Amy and fell in love with her. I believe he broke it off with Helen but

did not tell her why b/c that would hurt her and I don?t think he wanted to do that. Of

course it did hurt her when she saw him going around with Miss Saintly Virgin and

she realized why he left and that she could never be that kind of woman b/c of her past.

 

Now this is where we differ. I don't believe Will would two-time Helen. I think their

relationship was over and he then met Amy. I also believe Will loved Helen and

he wanted to marry her. I'm basing this on Will being a loyal man. I cannot see him

being so cold to Helen. If I felt this way, I'd think badly of Will. How can we feel sorry

for him being left alone by the townspeople if he did the EXACT SAME THING to

Helen? It just doesn't fit for me.

 

I was thinking Will could have just told Helen, "it's been fun, but it's time for me to move

on." But that reason doesn't fit for me because they haven't talked in a year and Helen

first kills him with her look when he enters her room and then her words, "you think

I have changed?" Their split was a difficult one and Helen is upset over Will wanting her to change. If this is so, what was Will looking for from Helen? What was she unwilling

to change?

 

I don?t think that Helen was still prostituting herself out while in Hadleyville though

I imagine she had done that before.

 

I agree with you. I believe she's purely a businesswoman now. If anything, she's more of

a madame.

 

I think she had saved enough money and she moved there to start clean and opened

up the saloon (it?s called the Ramirez Saloon so I assume it?s her) and the general store

that she is a partner in. I think here she was trying to be a legitimate business woman

but was still using men for the protection they could give her. Those were still rough times

for a woman and it didn?t hurt to have a backup plan. I imagine word got around about

the kind of woman she had been and that?s why the business men in the town met

with her privately in her hotel room.

 

I think the saloon is seen by the chuchgoers in town to be "unsavory" and this is how

she makes her money. And I'm sure Frank Miller and her lived it up at her saloon. I

feel her rep is partially earned and partially judgmental. Helen is far from an angel.

 

The saloon could bear her name but not a reputable place like a general store.

 

Awesome point! I didn't think of that all.

 

I think when she says ?You think I have changed?? that it wasn?t in response to Will

asking her to change b/c I don?t think he did. I think he just broke it off with her for Amy

and she knows why without him having to explain it to her. He doesn?t respond to that

part of her question b/c he knows why she asked it and I think he does feel bad that

she knows why he couldn?t marry her, b/c of her past. He is a decent man and feels

bad for the kind of life she had and also b/c he couldn?t get past his own view of not

wanting a wife like her. His job is to protect people and emotionally, he let her down

and I think that bothers him which is why he went to warn her, to try and protect her now.

 

So what do you think Helen means with "you think I have changed?"

 

I don?t think she was either b/c she was very attracted to him and that did turn

to love. She was probably more herself with him than with any other man which

again might explain why she was so hurt over his leaving. She was vulnerable with

a man in that she let her guard down and fell in love, maybe for the first time, and

he broke her heart.

 

Now that I like. That works if you don't believe Will asked her to change. I just cannot

see Will being that coldhearted, though. He would be just like the townsfolk who

left him high and dry. And I'd say to him, "see how it feels?"

 

I think out of the two women, Helen is definitely the most interesting character. Like

Frank said, Amy is pretty easy to figure out. She is young and immature and I think

was still growing up when they got married. By the time they leave Hadleyville after

the shootout, she has grown up a lot. She?s learned that no matter how staunchly

you believe in something like your principles, you may not be able to always stick

to them. What?s really important is to have a set of values and try to do what?s

right. She realized that her husband, the man she loved, was in mortal danger

and it was her duty to stand by him and help him.

 

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! That is precisely how I feel, particularly about beliefs

and values. I completely concur. I just don't feel it's fair to your mate if you are

choosing your beliefs over them when they need you most. If you are to marry

someone, you are to commit to them and give them all you have.

 

One thing that hasn?t been mentioned here is Will?s relationship with Harvey. One line

that I?m curious about is after Harvey confronts Will about staying and then Harvey

says ?you?ve been washed up for over a year.? What did he mean? I?m curious if Will

and Amy had been together all that time and if Harvey sensed that Will was wanting

to get out of law enforcement and settle down. He could have said that too just to try

and hurt Will. Harvey wants to be marshal and I think he?s jealous of Will

professionally. I think he?s also jealous of him personally b/c he knows Helen was

happier with Will.

 

Very interesting. It's a wonderful line to highlight. Nicely done! The mention of "over a

year" is powerful because it's been one year since Will and Helen broke up. Could you

be right about Will seeing Amy for that long? I don't believe so because I feel their

courtship was much shorter. Amy doesn't know Will all that well.

 

All you need to know about Harvey is that he wants to be the marshal. Will has the sway

to make that happen for him. He doesn't do it, though. Since Harvey is a "child," he starts

to throw a fit over not getting what he wants. He tries to hurt Will in any way he can. He

does a pretty good job of it, too.

 

I believe Harvey knows Will has been "washed up for over a year" because of what Helen

has told him. I think she let him know Will has been wanting to hang it up and settle

down. How would she know this? Because he discussed this with her, wishing to

settle down with her. "Over a year" means Will was still with Helen.

 

I also think since Will discussed giving up the star and settling down with Helen, this

is why she went to Harvey, who is next in line... supposedly. She knows there's going

to be a change in power.

 

I think Will and Gary are very close to being the same person, maybe that?s why he?s

my fave of his characters. Look at Gary in his bachelor days, he was with women very

similar to Helen ? Clara Bow, Lupe Velez, Dorothy DiFrasso, etc?

 

Don't tell me he cheats on Amy! No!

 

I think High Noon is definitely one of the best films ever made. It has a pretty short

running time for a feature and a seemingly simple story, yet there are so many

different interpretations. Everyone sees some part of it a little differently and I think

the way they put the characters and story together, with some ambiguity about

their past, was very smart filmmaking as we are still talking about it today.

 

That was excellent. It really is a compelling film. One of the best.

 

Frank, I think Carole probably would be the most fun to go back in time and be

friends with. She was fun and lively and not pretentious at all.

 

Definitely. I think it's important for a couple to laugh and giggle together. Carole seems

like the kind of woman who you could do this with. She seemed to have plenty

of "girl" in her, and I love that in a woman. I'm not big on acting mature at all

times. Blah. I love silly.

 

A while ago, Rohanaka mentioned about how her and her husband can be so

doggone immature with their little jokes and teases with each other, including

in public, and I always thought that was the most beautiful thing. Why not enjoy

each other?

 

I will always see Maureen O'Hara as the mom from The Parent Trap (one of my

absolute faves) and she seems like a cool person to know too.

 

:D I haven't seen that one. What I find attractive about Maureen's characters and

performances is that she's very emotional, which is something I also love in

a woman. And Maureen also has lots of "girl" in her.

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Ciao, CinemAva -- Can any man without power over you make you do something? Hmmmmm...

 

Okay...I guess you?re right.

 

I think better of you. But it's more fun when a man has power over you, meaning love.

 

Yes, I have seen ?HIGH NOON? but if I?d have known the conversation was going

to be this lively, I would have watched it during its recent airing on TCM.

 

:D This is one of those "promises" of mine that seem to always go unfulfilled. Of course,

you wouldn't know anything about this. I wanted to do more of a presentation, but you

suckered me into a Helen Ramirez discussion and then Jackie cracked me on the

head, as usual. Y'all are evil.

 

Did I ever declare ?I Don?t Watch Westerns? at least publicly?

 

No, I guess you didn't. I just know it's not a genre you seek out.

 

Not my tippy top favorite genre but I did enjoy ?Warlock? ?The Last Sunset? ?Duel

At Diablo? ?Blazing Saddles? ?Tall in the Saddle? ?Forty Guns? ?Johnny Guitar? and more.

 

Forty Guns? Hey, now! You do have fine taste, Lively Gal.

 

Yeah yeah, I know...I know...the towering classics are not on my list but there?s

some I like and many I haven?t seen, I?m afraid.

 

Look who you're talking to! Like I've seen many classic films. I'm such a pup, and a

disobedient one, at that.

 

Listen, you know me: I?m a Noir Gal. I want to walk down a dark (hopefully) safe

rain-soaked street to go into a bar to meet a strong silent kind of violent man

(who would beat up bad guyz NOT me), wearing a trenchcoat...and nothing else

 

Wolf whistle! I often wear nothing but a trenchcoat. The cops love that look.

 

Yes I saw that there were speculations galore in those posts. We fill in the blanks

of film characters by the incidents in our lwn life. My feelings for Gary Cooper has

changed in recent years but the conversation about Helen vs. Amy totally sparked

my interest in re-visiting the film. The speculations between you and the ladies were

very well written and compelling.

 

Please tell me your feelings about Coop have changed from good to bad.

 

I have been thoroughly impressed with what Jackie, Miss G, and Coopsy's Clarita have

written. They have been brilliant. Now let's never speak of this ever again.

 

Thank you so much for humoring me and listing your ?sweet? ?emotional? ?playfully?

warm actresses and the cold ones too.

 

You're welcome. You know me, I love opinions and I love sharing my opinion.

 

I love the actresses on your list.

 

Thanks. I'm sure you probably know my favorites, by now.

 

(Pssst! Where would Jeanne Crain and Gene Tierney be on your list?)

 

Gene is always so difficult for me to place. She's definitely warm to me. Even when she's

playing a coldhearted woman like "Ellen" in Leave Her to Heaven, I still wish to be

with her. Gene brings out my protective side. I want to keep her happy. I'd say her

category is "lovely" and of the ones I listed, she'd go in "sweet." She's so very feminine

to me.

 

I'd also place Jeanne in "sweet." She seems like a regular girl to me, and I really like that

about her. For some reason, I get the feeling I just wouldn't have to worry with Jeanne. I'd

probably feel most comfortable with someone like Jeanne.

 

I'm looking at "SOMEWHERE IN TIME" (1980) on the Encore channel now and

there's one of your warm girls: Teresa Wright in the first scene. Yes, she's old

but her voice is still the same with that lovely sweet warm lilt to it.

 

I've never seen that one but I know it's a favorite of Miss G. How could a guy not just

smile being around a gal like Teresa? She makes you feel so glad to be alive. You

know, the opposite of Miss G. :P:P

 

I love time traveling films (wrote one myself) and I love the romance between

Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour. (She should have gone further with her

career in films, "Dr. Quinn" notwithstanding). So bittersweet seeing Christopher

Reeve young and vibrant. John Barry's music I believe.

 

Back that thang up. You wrote one? What was it called and what was it about? I know

Clarita's favorite time travel film is Time Chasers. In the not to distant future...

 

Just an aside about warmth...now back to the cold calculating Helen Ramirez and

the baby-faced virginal Amy.

 

There you go! Ohhh, you'd smack me silly about Helen if you'd watch

High Noon again.

 

In fact, this makes me think of movies about similar "triangular" scenarios. GWTW has

been mentioned, though not in that context. Mogambo comes to mind. And

Shane. - Miss Goddess.

 

It?s not a western, but the first movie that came to my mind was Cary Grant & Deborah

Kerr in ?THE GRASS IS GREENER.? Interesting idea for a thread.

 

It really would be a terrific idea for a thread. It's one of my favorite themes in film. One

of my favorite triangle flicks is Hitchcock's The Manxman. It's a fascinating film. How

about Design for Living?

 

Bonjour, Mlle Bovary -- My only response: What Jackie said.

 

You're on the train right now, aren't you? :D

 

Hola, Little Red Buick -- But if Helen is as wise and in touch with what kind

of man Will is, as you say she is, then she should know to trust him. Where's her faith

in the man she speaks so highly of?

 

Should should should! You are all about should! Let's pretend this is reality. Real people

don't decide to trust someone and then just do it...oh so simple. It's one thing to tell

yourself that this man is good, I should trust him, it's entirely another to actually do

it.

 

But isn't that what love and commitment is all about? Don't you get to a point where

you feel you can trust a person to be yours? I thought Helen knew what kind of man

Will was. Are you telling me she didn't? Are you saying she had no clue what she

let slip away? That would actually make me like Helen more, by the way. If she

didn't know what she had until he was gone, that works for me. But I believe Helen

was smarter than that and knew Will was a good man when she was with

him. Heck, I think most people know Will is a good man. I don't think it's a secret.

 

If you have a puppy, and she's been abused, does she trust you even if you are nice

to her and never hurt her? NO. Not right away. Not for a long time. I know. I have a dog

who was abused. Do you know how long it took him to trust us? 4 years. 4 years of

constant care and love.

 

That is so wonderful, Wendy. If I were an abused puppy, I'd want you to take care of

me. A few more months around Miss G and I will be, so get ready. :P

 

Your analogy kind of works for me. I do view Helen as a distrusting kind of woman. This

is one of the reasons why I don't view her as being honest. Trusting people tend to be

the honest ones. They have no reason to lie.

 

If Helen isn't willing to trust a man like Will, she's headed for loneliness. I think that's

what happened and is going to happen. And, yes, I do agree with your overall point that

her past life created how she is today. She's a byproduct of life's pain.

 

 

FRANK MILLER. All the other men who came before......she might tell herself that

she needs to trust Will, but she is human. To do it is a huge step. Did Will wait for her

to trust him, did he show patience and give her TIME? Did he trust that with love and

care, she would be able to give up her life for him? No, he didn't.

 

She seemed to love him which tells me they spent time together and that he had

convinced her he was true. She wouldn't have the feelings she does for him if he was

with her for just a couple months. A strong relationship takes time to build and it

takes even longer time to build such a relationship with a woman like Helen. That

work had been done. It was time for the next step.

 

I'm only a red Corvette on the outside. I'm a Buick on the inside.

 

I'm smiling. :)

 

Do you think Helen will ever just be with a man because she loves him?

 

She ALREADY WAS.

 

But I don't believe her and Will came to be because of that. That's not how the journey

started.

 

No, I don't think she will be with another man because she loves him, because

she already had the one love of her life. Fine, so she's back to being a user, big

deal. But I don't think she used Will.

 

She was looking to use Will at first, just as I think Will was looking to use her.

 

I know Helen believes in love, but not it's power to redeem everything and fix

everything. For her, it is loss, always. And you expect her to act like a

schoolgirl. Maybe Blanche DuBois is more your type.

 

:D I'd love a Blanche! If Will wronged Helen, she'll never trust a man again. Yet, there she

is with Harvey.

 

That is baloney. It does have to do with Will. Will was leaving town with his wife

before. Now he is to be sacrificed on the alter of "we don't care" - he is to DIE

protecting those who will not lift a finger to help him survive. That is the

difference, and it's ALL about Will. It is not about her loss of him to Amy,

it is about how corrupt and sick the town is, and how she cannot stand by

watch him KILLED.

 

I thought you were saying Helen didn't want to be in the town without Will there. He was

leaving with Amy and Helen had no designs of leaving the town, so she was quite fine with

a Will-less Hadleyville. But she wasn't fine with is a Will-less Hadleyville with Frank Miller

back in town. She has to protect her interests.

 

highnoon10.jpg

 

I believe Helen would definitely stand and fight with her man, but I don't believe

she'd do so because of love. She's just a fighter and a survivor. She would have

stood and fought beside Frank Miller just as much as she'd stand and fight beside

Will Kane. Do you think she loved Frank?

 

No. Not one bit.

 

So why would she be with Frank? How about Harvey? What's the purpose of being

with these men, or any man? Companionship? Sex? Why these guys?

 

And I don't think she would have stood by Frank any more than she will stand

by wrongheaded Harvey. But I do think she would have stood by Will. He was the

one true love of her life.

 

I think she'd stand by Frank. As I said, I think Helen is a fighter.

 

I do believe Helen is full of regret and even anger at herself. I think she knows she blew

it. That kind of pain is tough to live with. It's more painful than the other kind of hurt she

has suffered through because she had the power to change her life and she

didn't. She didn't have the courage to do so. That's going to eat at her forever.

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Angie, April, Everyone,

 

 

A very Interesting quote from a former high up at Kino:

 

 

*"As it so happens Warner Bros has been working on LILAC TIME and wants to put out a good version. They have certainly been at the forefront of studios releasing Silents and they are involved and helpful on all the fine Colleen Moore restorations that are being done."*

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> {quote:title=gagman66 wrote:}{quote}

>

> *"As it so happens Warner Bros has been working on LILAC TIME and wants to put out a good version. They have certainly been at the forefront of studios releasing Silents and they are involved and helpful on all the fine Colleen Moore restorations that are being done."*

 

That's _great_ news, gagman!! I am psyched about that. :D

 

Do you think it's more likely to get released through the Warner Archives, or to receive a regular release?

 

Anyway, I'm also psyched about having recorded Operator 13 off TCM, even though I already had it from Warner Archives, because the TCM print has CC (always handy when watching movies late at night!)

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HollywoodGolightly,

 

 

 

Chuck Tabesh mentioned on SSO that a couple years ago Flicker Alley attempted to acquire the rights of a rare "Major Paramount Silent", and that TCM was working with them on this. ("CHILDREN OF DIVORCE, or BEAU GESTE Maybe?) Unfortunately, it did not work out. He did not confide as to the specific title. Paramount was like a stone wall, but He noted that they are finally starting to establish a better relationship with them. Any one else have an idea what film that He could have been talking about? This is the very first that I had heard about this matter anywhere? Hope to learn more.

 

Another curious quote by Mr. Tabesh: *"I do remember a film recently for Underground that the rights holder felt that what was out on dvd was illegally being distributed and so we couldn't access it. "And there was the time that Paramount wouldn't supply us with the Photoplay Productions version of "Wings" and Photoplay couldn't provide it to us without Paramount's permission. But those situations are very rare, the truth is a lot of times it's our fault that we missed the fact that something better was created - we do try and stay on top of that, though."*

 

Sadly He knew nothing about what was going on with the Colleen Moore projects, but promised to inquire into them. I would like to think that we could see HER WILD OAT, and LILAC TIME well ahead of SYNTHETIC SIN and WHY BE GOOD? Though it's possible they would put them all off until the same time. That will probably be at least another couple years. Still HER WILD OAT is restored, and LILAC TIME is apparently restored. The scoring track was re-instated clear back in 2003, so they ought to run with those. At least we can always hope.

 

There doesn't seem to be any real rime or reason to which Silent films TCM's has scored that I can see? It's like they put several titles up on a dart board, and which ever one the dart lands on that is the one that they go with? I mean THE SEA BEAST and GENERAL CRACK would appear to be two logical titles to score, as they would wrap up the remaining John Barrymore Warner Bothers features that don't have any music tracks yet. Don't even know if they have been considered? Or a John Gilbert film like TWELVE MILES OUT would seem a prime contender since it has Joan Crawford, and they have already scored most of her other MGM Silents, even when some of them like THE BOOB were definitely not very good.

 

Warner Archive is releasing THE VIKING, and DESERT NIGHTS on the 16 th of this month So those two titles are huge surprises! Also several Crawford Silents. THE BOOB, ACROSS TO SINGAPORE, WEST POINT. Despite the dismal condition of ACROSS TO SINGAPORE they are still putting it out anyway. Really amazed about THE VIKING since it has been so long since it was on TCM. No, NOAH'S ARK or TIDE OF EMPIRE yet though.

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*I cannot believe we're on the same page. I bet you feel dirty.*

 

It?s not Saturday yet but I definitely need a bath.

 

vasche_combinate.jpg

 

I don?t think Will was two-timing Helen either. I was thinking he met Amy when he and Helen were still together but he broke it off with Helen before anything got started with Amy. He could see there was no future with Helen. It?s possible they casually discussed longer term plans but maybe they were both reticent to make a commitment. As much as I hate to give credit to Amy, I think she was the one who made Will realize he wanted something more. Again, I?m comparing Will to Gary here b/c he had never been real serious about his previous girlfriends (not even Lupe who he was living with at one point during their 3 year relationship) until he met Rocky then it was like a light switched on and he began getting things in order for a wife (took better charge of his finances, bought a house, etc?).

 

*Could you be right about Will seeing Amy for that long? I don't believe so because I feel their courtship was much shorter. Amy doesn't know Will all that well.*

 

I was thinking they had met somewhere and then visited a few times and wrote a lot of letters back and forth as well. I think Amy does know him pretty well but she knows ?peace time Will? and he doesn?t seem like one to brag so he probably hasn?t recounted the stories to her of cleaning up the town and all the mess that was going on in the past. She doesn?t know who Frank Miller is when he gets the telegram about his return as Will has to explain the situation to her.

 

*I believe Harvey knows Will has been "washed up for over a year" because of what Helen has told him. I think she let him know Will has been wanting to hang it up and settle down. How would she know this? Because he discussed this with her, wishing to settle down with her.*

 

Do you really think Helen would blab her and Will?s private conversations to Harvey? I don?t think so. Also Harvey doesn?t seem to know what really happened between Helen and Will as he asks her who did the leaving. She doesn?t answer him but tells him to get out.

 

I wonder if after Will and Helen broke up that Harvey began to pick up on little signals from Will that he was unhappy and was thinking about moving on and settling down. But is Harvey that intuitive, I doubt it. I?m really not sure what that line means. It could mean nothing at all and Harvey is just saying it to tick Will off and drive the knife in a little deeper. His is pretty immature and that would fit with his character?s behavior.

 

Also thinking about your idea that Will did discuss marriage will Helen and she wouldn?t agree to it, why not? If she loved him and saw him as security why wouldn?t she? I think you said that maybe she wanted to also stay involved in her businesses and I don?t see why Will would have a problem with that since she seemed to be a legitimate business woman now. I don?t know what Will?s financial situation is but they need to make money somehow b/c I doubt he had any kind of pension (really don?t know how that stuff worked back then) so I can?t see him being opposed to Helen wanting to still be in business. He and Amy are going to have a store so why couldn?t he and Helen? I do like your point (I think it was yours anyway) about Will not caring what people think as he doesn?t go to church and also doesn?t sneak around to see Helen. He?s just cool and he knows it ;).

 

One thing that I don?t understand though is how does Will not know that Harvey and Helen are together. Harv goes right in and out of her hotel from the front door as well (of course he might live in the hotel too, I don?t know). It doesn?t seem like a very big town and people surely have gossiped about them.

 

If only we could go back and ask Zinneman and Foreman what all this really means!! How much you wanna bet they would tell us it?s just a movie, relax ? ha!

 

*Don't tell me he cheats on Amy! No!*

 

If the badge fits, wear it ;). Just kidding, here?s where Will and Gary differ, I don?t think Will would cheat.

 

*I know Clarita's favorite time travel film is Time Chasers. In the not to distant future...*

 

Doesn?t everybody love time travel films made by amateurs in Rutland, Vermont?

 

 

April:

 

*It could go as you say, if Amy is the type to brood. I think it may be okay because of her extreme youth. She can put the ugliness of the past behind easier than someone older might, who was even more set in their ways.*

 

That is a good point. Maybe I just want to think there will problems b/c I don?t like Amy and think Will could do better :P.

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I saw the stuff at SSO a couple days ago when April posted the link but with all the *High Noon* discussions, I forgot to respond. This is wonderful news!! Things are definitely looking up for us Paramount fans as both Paramount and Universal are beginning to release more.

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> {quote:title=gagman66 wrote:}{quote}

> HollywoodGolightly,

>

>

>

> Chuck Tabesh mentioned on SSO that a couple years ago Flicker Alley attempted to acquire the rights of a rare "Major Paramount Silent", and that TCM was working with them on this. ("CHILDREN OF DIVORCE, or BEAU GESTE Maybe?) Unfortunately, it did not work out. He did not confide as to the specific title. Paramount was like a stone wall, but He noted that they are finally starting to establish a better relationship with them. Any one else have an idea what film that He could have been talking about? This is the very first that I had heard about this matter anywhere? Hope to learn more.

 

It's definitely a good thing that they're finally starting to establish a better relationship. Unfortunately, these things tend to take a pretty long time. But hopefully we'll see a lot more Paramount silents sometime... in the next few years? ;)

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FrankGrimes wrote: A strong relationship takes time to build and it

takes even longer time to build such a relationship with a woman like Helen. That

work had been done. It was time for the next step.

 

I can't agree with that at all. I've known a few women like her. She's Latin, remember,

not Anglo Saxon. She doesn't "need time". She knows from the start. But no matter

how much affection she has, doesn't mean she'll have trust. You keep putting it on him,

that because he's trustworth she MUST trust him. Because she loves him, she MUST

trust him. People don't work that way.

 

And boy do I ever COMPLETEY disagree with this one:

 

Your analogy kind of works for me. I do view Helen as a distrusting kind of woman. This

is one of the reasons why I don't view her as being honest. Trusting people tend to be

the honest ones. They have no reason to lie.

 

Every day in every way this is proven wrong. People aren't that consistent. The whole

movie is about how inconsistent people are. No one except Will really lives up to their

idea of themselves.

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I can't agree with that at all. I've known a few women like her. She's Latin, remember,

not Anglo Saxon. She doesn't "need time". She knows from the start. But no matter

how much affection she has, doesn't mean she'll have trust. You keep putting it on him,

that because he's trustworth she MUST trust him. Because she loves him, she MUST

trust him. People don't work that way.

 

But if you know from the start, then you know. If you don't trust someone or

something, that means you don't know. If Helen doesn't know what kind of man

Will is, she has no business telling Harvey and Amy that she does. I think Helen

does know what kind of man Will is. I believe she knows him better than anyone

ever has... and she regrets her decision to let him go. She messed up.

 

Every day in every way this is proven wrong. People aren't that consistent. The

whole movie is about how inconsistent people are. No one except Will really lives

up to their idea of themselves.

 

I do agree that we are all inconsistent and that we are all dishonest in some shape or

form. I think Helen is far more dishonest than Amy and Will. I believe Helen is mostly

dishonest with herself. She likes to tell others how it is, but she can't take it when she

is told how it is.

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CINECON 45 IS RUNNING ( ONLY THE BRAVE (1930)

Gary Cooper and past Cinecon honoree Mary Brian star in this Civil War drama (or is it a comedy?) set behind Confederate lines. Directed by Frank Tuttle, the film shows off Cooper at his matinee-idol best

 

go to www.cinecon.org - you can see rare old films on the big screen Labor Day Weekend in Hollywood at Sid Grauman's Egyptian theater which has been restored.

 

Just some the feature films tentatively scheduled for Cinecon 45 are:

STRANGE AFFAIR (Columbia, 1944) Yet another foray into the world of comic mystery with Allyn Joslyn, and past Cinecon guest Evelyn Keyes. This little-seen film ranks with past Cinecon hit, Dangerous Blondes, for laughs and chills. Marguerite Chapman and Edgar Buchanan are also in the cast.

THE PLAYBOY OF PARIS (1930)

Maurice Chavalier?s fourth American film, The Playboy of Paris features a strong supporting cast, including past Cinecon Career Achievement Award honoree Frances Dee, as well as comic character actors Stuart Erwin and Eugene Pallette. Directed by Ludwig Berger, this film offers more comedy than songs, with Chevalier playing a waiter who inherits a hefty pile of dough?allowing him to wait tables by day and be waited on in the hot night spots of Gay Paree. A genuine laugh treat.

EASY LIVING (1937)

The wonderfully funny Jean Arthur and an equally lighthearted Ray Milland star in this great screwball comedy which takes probing look at why those folks on Wall Street make the big bucks. Mitchell Leisen directs a script by Preston Sturges.

NIGHTMARE (1942)

Diana Barrymore co-starred with Brian Donlevy in Nightmare. Stylishly directed by Tim Whelan (The Thief of Bagdad, 1940), Nightmare is a taut spy thriller in the manner of Alfred Hitchcock?s The 39 Steps and Saboteur. Barrymore gave a sensational performance, and she seemed destined for stardom, but Nightmare would prove to be one of her few starring roles. Her battles with alcohol were chronicled in her 1957 autobiography, Too Much, Too Soon. Diana Barrymore would die in 1960 at the age of 38

AFRAID TO TALK (1932)

A red-hot pre-code drama about politicians, gangsters and corruption. It takes place in the Great Depression, but it remains timely. Based on a play by ?Hollywood 10? writer Albert Maltz, Afraid to Talk was directed by Edward L. Cahn, best known for the classic Western Law and Order (1932).

ONLY THE BRAVE (1930)

Gary Cooper and past Cinecon honoree Mary Brian star in this Civil War drama (or is it a comedy?) set behind Confederate lines. Directed by Frank Tuttle, the film shows off Cooper at his matinee-idol best

TRIAL MARRIAGE (1929)

Erle C. Kenton directs this Columbia Pictures melodrama starring Norman Kerry, Sally Eilers, Thelma Todd, and Jason Robards, Sr. A brand new print of a previously "lost" film.

HATTER?S CASTLE (1942)

Robert Newton, famed for his later portrayal of Long John Silver, gives one of his best and most restrained performances in this British classic based on the novel by A.J. Cronin. Deborah Kerr and James Mason also star in this seldom-seen gem directed by Lance Comfort.

BROADWAY LOVE (1918)

In the 1910s Universal was one of the few studios willing to take a chance on women directors. Starring Dorothy Phillips and Lon Chaney, Broadway Love was directed by Ida May Park.

THANKS FOR EVERYTHING (1938)

Adolphe Menjou, Jack Oakie and Jack Haley?with comedy, songs and a radio contest.

TURN TO THE RIGHT (1922)

Alice Terry, Jack Mulhall and Harry Myers star in this adaptation of Jack E. Hazzard?s famed play. This was director Rex Ingram?s first film after The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and The Conquering Power, which made Rudolph Valentino a star.

THE BRIDE COMES HOME (1935)

With the success of The Gilded Lily, Paramount was eager to re-team Claudette Colbert and Fred MacMurray in another screwball romp. Colbert plays secretary to MacMurray and Robert Young.

LASCA OF THE RIO GRANDE (1931)

Johnny Mack Brown made this one-off Western on his way from being a leading man at M-G-M to a Cowboy star on "Poverty Row." He plays a Texas Ranger who has to track down his girl friend, played by Dorothy Burgess, when she is accused of murder.

PAID TO LOVE (1927)

Howard Hawks directs this frothy film about an American banker who helps a Balkan prince find a wife in a low-life caf?. George O?Brien stars.

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>

> But if you know from the start, then you know. If you don't trust someone or

> something, that means you don't know. If Helen doesn't know what kind of man

> Will is, she has no business telling Harvey and Amy that she does. I think Helen

> does know what kind of man Will is. I believe she knows him better than anyone

> ever has... and she regrets her decision to let him go. She messed up.

>

 

"Knowledge" and human behavior seldom has a direct correllation. If it did,

we'd have a happier world.

 

 

>

> I do agree that we are all inconsistent and that we are all dishonest in some shape or

> form. I think Helen is far more dishonest than Amy and Will. I believe Helen is mostly

> dishonest with herself. She likes to tell others how it is, but she can't take it when she

> is told how it is.

 

 

Who tells her "how it is"? I see her reacting very defensively whenever anyone appears

to be even thinking about offending her on the basis of her "past". She is very touchy

about that, which points to her having suffered a lot from the so-called

respectable people. Notice how when Amy says she won't take a seat in her room

how Helen pulls herself up and tells her to beat it. She's offended. She thinks Amy

feels ti would be beneath her to make herself comfortable in Helen's rooms. She

reacts this way a few times throughout the film, even with her "Do you think I've

changed?" I think it all confirms what I say, Will couldn't handle that she made

her living based on prostitution. She's not just an ordinary businesswoman, the

men who are her partners are former clients and she'd never own a thing if it hadn't

been for the path she took. She knows that and knows that others will seek to put

her down for it. That's why she's touchy. The movie is at pains to show that Helen

is not viewed as respectable, and her business with men was initiated by her past

relations with them. They didn't give her money to go in business just because she

was smart.

 

Women with her line of business are ALWAYS extremely touchy and quick to take

offense at the SLIGHTEST, or even imaginary, provocation. Trust me, I know.

 

And I think the moviemakers wanted to make the so-called dubious woman the most

honest one in town, but because she's also relatively powerless, she can do nothing

but try to help herself. I know that for a fact people who are trying to hang on to what

they have may have the best hearts of anyone in the room, but all they will do for you

when the chips are down is wish you well if it means a sacrifice of what they worked

so hard for. In that respect you and me and Jackie are all in agreement. Helen does

leave "because this town is finished for her" if Kane dies, but we don't judge her for it and you do

seem to judge her. You are an idealist I guess, and that is good only if it is tempered with mercy

and understanding that people won't always live up to those ideals, no matter how much they

mean to.

 

Message was edited by: MissGoddess

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