Any Gary Cooper Fans?

[FrankGrimes]

Hi, Coop's Girl -- Not sure if you know or not but Gary was 'shacked up' with Lupe for quite a while which was considered somewhat scandalous. He moved from his parents house to live with her but then near the end of their relationship he finally struck out on his own.

 

I was unaware of this. The only Gary Cooper knowledge I currently possess has come via this thread, so I thank all of you for that.

 

No, I haven't not worn that blouse again and thankfully that creepy guy at works seems to have latched onto the new girl and for some strange reason I think she likes him!

 

I thought that would be your answer. I just wanted an update. I love the "blouse" story.

 

Joel or Mike; good question. I first started watching MST3K when Joel was still on so I have a special attachment to him but I think Mike was a little funnier. But I loved that show the whole way through and really don't have a preference (CC or Sci-fi era).

 

You are far more of an expert on MST3K than I am. I didn't start watching the show until the end of Joel's run, so I've only seen a few of his episodes. I prefer Mike's livelier approach, but I do like Joel's dryness, too. It's the Sci-Fi era for me, but that's only because I haven't seen enough of Joel's eps.

 

I just watched Suspicion and while it was a good movie and Joan Fontaine did a fine job, it was in no way on Oscar worthy performance. I know Barbara Stanwyck was nominated that year as well for Ball of Fire but I think her performance in Meet John Doe was more worthy of a nomination and was a better performance than Joan's.

 

How can you disrespect Joan like that? This Hitchcock fan is upset now. Well, not really. I most definitely prefer Barbara Stanwyck's performances in *Ball of Fire* and *Meet John Doe* to Joan's in *Suspicion*. Having said that, I think Joan's performance featured more emotional depth than Missy's. But I'm still with my girl, Missy.

 

Hey, Dan -- Frank, It is not to say I hate that movie and the scenic beauty was pretty good with the mine being up on the top of the hill and the town down below. On a weaker year for films I might not be so hard on it. But I guess if you do not connect with the main person in the movie which is the kid played by Roddy McDowall then the movie is a lost cause since everything revolves around him. I thought he was much to quiet of a kid who I just couldn't connect with. So if you can't connect to the main character then little is left to enjoy. I thought the film was a very average film in a very above average year for movies.

 

I'm glad you have the guts to voice your opinion about any film, Dan. I certainly respect that. I haven't seen *How Green Was My Valley* with intelligent eyes, so I'm not sure what my take on the film will be. Your critiques have sparked my interest in the film. So in a weird kind of way, I thank you. I still have to see *Sergeant York*, too.

 

It's good to see you around again.

 

Mrs. Cooper -- What a glorious display of Gary Cooper you provided today. I looked at all of them a couple times. Thanks for sharing. I also liked your "trigger happy" humor.

 

Miss Goddess -- An 8:00 P.M. post from you is just too much for me, hence my incoherence. That was quite a nice surprise.

 

I must say, I absolutely love your style, although it can be quite painful to some of us.

 

First you soften us Citizen Kane-types up with words like, "no offense to Welles whom I admire, or to its fans." I'm now thinking, "aw, ain't that sweet." My defenses are completely down. Then you kick us in the, um, with, "is one of the most overrated films I've ever seen so I'm glad it did not win over any of the other choices, Lol! It's a very cold and lifeless movie, to me---and one that borrows so heavily from John Ford's films stylistically, ha!"

 

OWWW! I'm now on the ground, writhing in pain. Deep breaths. Deep breaths.

 

You're not going to get any blank stares from me; my eyes have rolled back in my head, not to mention my...

 

I'm gonna tape *The Fountainhead* tonight. As some of you know, it's actually one of the Cooper films that interests me the most.

[CoopfanDan]

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[CoopfanDan]

These are the only films I am familar with for 46. Of Course Gary did Cloak and Dagger (not a super big one for him but enjoyable to his fans), The Big Sleep (a big Bogart film), Notorious, The postman Always Rings twice, and the big one It's a Wonderful life. There's another King Vidor movie that I've never seen called Duel in the sun, but overall not a real remarkable year moviewise compared to 1939, 1941, and 1942.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how imdb states that Casablanca won for best picture in 1944 when it was out in 1942. That is a two year difference? 1942 would be as big as 39 and 41 if Casablanca was included in the mix.

 

I did include Supician into the preious post for movie of 1941 but it certainly I don't think was better than performances from my four favorites from that year in Sergeant York, The Maltese Falcon, Meet John Doe, and Ball of Fire. 1941 was certainly Gary Cooper's most productive year for making movies.

[CoopfanDan]

One of the main reasons I dislike posting here is because of the extreme difficulty in posting messages since they updated these boards.

 

Another thing that is really screwed up is that after I make a post it takes me to page 318 of this thread and sometimes even logs me out. I've also had trouble logging in on many occasions. For example, I find the thead and then log in. After logging in I am no longer on the thread and have to find it again and when I find it I am no longer logged in and it goes on and on and on sometimes.

[FrankGrimes]

Dan -- I just got *Cloak and Dagger* on DVD. Maybe I'll pull a Coop doubleheader this week. I'm thinking that I may like *The Fountainhead* more than *Cloak and Dagger*, and I say this as a Langian.

[CoopfanDan]

Cloak and Dagger is a good Gary Cooper movie and Fritz Lang movie but it is not some of Fritz Lang's fans favorite of his movies because it was heavily edited in the same way that They Came to Cordura was. In fact the entire ending was reshot on order by Jack Warner or the Government.

 

I guess I can give the ending that was originally shot since it is not the way the film ended and was destroyed and no longer exists by order of WB and or the Government of the United States.

 

What was cut - or censored by government influence, as Savant believes - is the following:

 

Jesper and Gina's romantic farewell is curtailled by the necessity of taking off right away. In flight, Jesper and an O.S.S. officer tend to professor Polda, who succumbs to his heart ailment. Before he dies, he names several secret lab locations where the Nazis are perfecting their Atom weapons. Unable to talk, he gives them a snapshot photo to represent the last location.

 

Experts identify the landscape in the photo and there follows an Allied commando mission. Cooper accompanies a hundred paratroops as they storm a fortress high in the Hartz mountains. But it's already abandoned, moved somewhere else. To Spain? Argentina? The mission comes up empty-handed. 3

 

The troops rest outside the cave, and Cooper quietly contemplates the idea that the genie is out of the bottle, that the world has been forever changed into a menacing, doom-laden place. He has a quiet conversation with a homesick paratrooper:

 

Paratrooper: Nice Sky.

Jesper: Sure is.

Paratrooper: Looks like the sky over my part of Ohio. I want to go back there, take off my suit, and never climb into it again.

Jesper: That's a good want. I hope you make it.

Paratrooper: Blue sky and birds singing. Guess I'll see my girl soon.

Jesper (smiles): Guess I will too.

 

And the movie ends on a weirdly calm note. There's no reason but political censorship to cut the original ending. The description makes it sound like an expensive and exciting scene, with the troops charging their objective like the swarming cops at the end of White Heat. It would have provided a jarring conclusion that people would remember. Cloak and Dagger is the missing link in the post-war nuke film, made just as national security concerns became the excuse for suspicion, lies and witch-hunts. I'm willing to believe that the conservative Jack Warner could very well have ordered the reshoot and re-edit on his own, without direct government interference, but the why is unchanged. Fritz Lang's work was betrayed, just as had happened before with Fury and Hangmen Also Die!.

 

For futher discussion on this please refer to Salvent's review of the dvd with spoiler information on the way the movie now ends.

 

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=6547&___rd=1

[coopsgirl]

Well good luck with *The Foutainhead*. I haven't been able to get all the way through it yet. The last time I made it about 3/4 of the way through and just couldn't take any more. I found all the characters to be unlikeable (even Gary which I thought was impossible) and the dialogue trite. I know it definitely has a fan base but I'm not in it. However, from a chick's point of view it's worth it just b/c Gary looks fantastic in it. The scene where he's working in the quarry and the bedroom scenes with Patricia Neal are super steamy. I much preferred *Cloak and Dagger*; better characters, better dialogue, and good storyline. To each his own though .

 

Now back to *Suspicion*, Joan definitely did a good job but the whole time I was watching it I kept waiting for the big "Oscar" moment and just never saw it. She and Cary Grant were both very good, I think he did a better job actually, but there were no Oscar worthy performances. It reminded me of *Sorry, Wrong Number* with Stanwyck in which she plays an invalid who suspects someone is trying to kill her. Now while I was watching that I was on the edge of my seat, just as nervous as she was and I didn't really feel that as much while watching *Suspicion*.

 

When I first learned that Stanwyck was nominated for an Oscar for '41 I assumed it was for *Meet John Doe* and I think she would have had a good chance of winning for that one. Her character starts off as a wise cracking ruthless newspaper woman just trying to make enough money to keep her family afloat. But over the course of the film we see her gradually change into a person with feelings and who tries to do right by the "John Does" and by John Doe (Gary) himself. The last scene where she's begging Gary not to jump rips my heart out every time I watch it. She's so sincere and believable in her intense love for this man. I better stop or I'll make myself cry - ha!

[coopsgirl]

This message board is gonna drive me crazy!!! I posted earlier this morning and now it's gone. Hopefully it will come back from the Twilight Zone at some point. Anyway here's something I found on another thread that I thought I would post here. It's from the administrator explaining exactly what movies TCM has access too. I know we've talked about this before but sometimes I forget exactly who owns what movies, so here's a refresher.

 

Below is an explanation of the films in our library.

 

The Turner library holdings consist of the pre-1986 MGM library, the pre-1949 Warner Brothers library, and the entire RKO library.

 

Turner Entertainment Co. Film Library:

1,707 MGM Feature Films (1915-1986)

854 Warner Bros. Feature Films (1924-1949)

787 RKO Feature Films (1929-1958)

948 MGM Short Subjects

320 MGM Cartoons

1,450 Warner Bros. Short Subjects

335 Warner Bros. Cartoons

51 RKO Short Subjects

 

Universal controls its own films, plus the pre-1949 Paramount talkies.

Paramount controls its own films from 1949 to the present, and all of its silent features.

Warner Brothers controls its own films from 1949 to the present, plus some independently produced films.

20th Century Fox controls its own films, plus the libraries of its pre-1935 corporate elements, the Fox Film Corporation and 20th Century Pictures, Inc.

The newly-created corporate entity Sony/MGM probably controls both the entire Columbia/Tristar library and the MGM library from 1986 to the present.

United Artists is a bit difficult to determine, because they distributed independent films in addition to producing their own films. I'm guessing that they have the rights to the latter, and not the former. Before merging with MGM in 1979, they controlled the pre-1949 Warners Brothers library.

[MissGoddess]

Great pictures, Kim! I take it some of those are from Maria's book about her father---I love that book.

[MissGoddess]

>>>All I gotta say right now is... wow. I'm currently at a loss for words. I'm sure I'll find some soon enough, though. Shutting me up ain't easy to do. <<<

 

Gee, Frank, what did I say?? lol, I can't even remember...was it the comment about Citizen Kane?

[MissGoddess]

>>>I know Barbara Stanwyck was nominated that year as well for Ball of Fire but I think her performance in Meet John Doe was more worthy of a nomination and was a better performance than Joan's.<<<

 

It's ridiculous that Barbara *never* won an Oscar.

[MissGoddess]

The woman in the picture with Gary and 'Papa' may be Hemingway's wife at the time (he had a few and I lose track).

[coopsgirl]

I figured the woman was probably one of his wives. It may sound shallow but I just don't think I could marry someone that looked like Santa Claus!

[MissGoddess]

I'm sorry Frank, *Citizen Kane* is important because so many like and admire it and I can see why people feel the way they do, but like Dan and the Valley, I'm just not impressed. I've seen every shot in that movie in John Ford's films among others before it and it just seems to me that Welles threw every trick in the book into it...because he had a free hand. I'm sure he had the time of his life making it, having no interference from the front office and getting to play a titanic character himself. For me, after repeated viewings it remains convoluted, trick-ridden and the characters are all unhappy (so of course everyone today loves it). I'm more like the people in the audience back in the day who probably scratched their collective heads and found the characters in HGWMV to be something deeply moving and resonant in comparison to Kane's.

 

And I repeat, I begudge not lest I be begrudged. I rather people call Kane the greatest movie ever made, than Fargo, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Pulp Fiction or some other similar horror---which I'm afraid one day they will do.

[MissGoddess]

Thanks, Dan, for sharing with us the original ending to Cloak and Dagger---it certainly sounds better than the rather abrupt, in my opinion, ending they edited in later.

 

Angie---I'm glad you posted the information about TCM's library and who controls what---I'm always uncertain whether I should even bother to request a movie here if they have no access to it.

 

Where it gets really crazy is when the studios start to double team with dvd releases, as Fox and Warner Bros have done recently.

 

Back to Joan Fontaine---I thought she gave more Oscar worthy performances in *Letter from an Unknown Woman* and *Rebecca* .

[butterscotchgreer]

i wish barbara stanwyk could have won at least one socar. she was so talented!! at least she got an honorary oscar. i think she deserved it for ball of fire, but thats me.

 

since we all seem to be on the subject of Cloak and Dagger, i watched it last night and loved it. i read many reviews about it, and was actually hesitating it, b/c a lot of people said that it wasnt that good, but then i asked anige and she said it was real cute, so i had to watch it. i thought it was a real good movie!!

 

i hate requsting a movie on here, b/c sometimes i feel noone is even reading it. thats so cool that you posted that angie!

 

i finally watched Rebecca and thought joan fontain gave a much better performance in that then in Suspicion. although i loved her in a Letter from an Unknown Woman too. there was also another cute one she was in called Maids Night Out, but it wasnt really and oscar performance type movie, just a cute romance.

[MissGoddess]

Hi Theresa---I don't think I've ever seen Maid's Night Out, but it sounds fun. I just watched part of a movie TCM just showed called Finishing School, with a young FRANCES Dee and Ginger Rogers. It was pretty funny and goes to show you that girls away at school have always been naughty.

 

Edited by me because I originally wrote "Sandra" Dee....duh....

 

Message was edited by: MissGoddess

[butterscotchgreer]

*Some great comedies to consider though they are not considered oscar worthy:*

 

*Buck Privates (Abbott and Costello's best movie)*

*Bride Came C.O.D. Great comedy with Bette Davis*

 

*There were a bunch more movies that I haven't seen released in that year as well but I don't* *know how often you get this many all time classic movies released in one year. Perhaps only in* *1939 and 1942 might this also be true.*

 

 

oh dan did you see Bride Came C. O. D.? what did you think of it? it is one of my favs of bette's films. i also love buck privates!! the andrews sisters are in that one and "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy" is one of my fav songs from the forties!

[cinemabuff64]

Was the movie good? I can't believe that I wanted to see it and didn't because the lightning storm here knocked the lights out for a while.

 

Just my luck !!

[CoopfanDan]

Hi April, Angie and Frank. I love the movie Cloak and dagger but some our turned off by its current ending.

 

 

I emailed John on it and this was his take on the movie and the cut

 

Hey, Dan:

 

Yes, it's a shame about Cloak & Dagger. Here's the line which most

frightened the government and which led to their demanding the

final reel be cut:

 

"Peace? There's no peace. It's year one of the Atomic Age and God have mercy on us all! ... if we think we can wage other wars without destroying ourselves."

 

Cooper's character, Jesper, says this after they've come out of the

cave and realize that the group has escaped with the atomic bomb

secrets. The U.S. had believed -- stupidly, naively -- that it could keep

the A-Bomb to itself. Cooper's line here was predicting just the

opposite. And, as it turns out, the truth.

 

I've often wondered if, after cutting the final reel, WB didn't insert

extra footage of Cooper/Palmer when they're hiding out in her

apartment. the scene goes on far too long, without telling us anything

we don't already knw. They did this, I believe, so that the film

wouldn't appear so short, with the final reel now deleted.

 

It's still a very good film. Better than Lang's other WW II thrillers --

Ministry Of Fear (based on a terrific Graham Greene novel) and Man Hunt

(also based on a much better novel, Rogue Male) -- even though the

auteurist Lang crowd believes the opposite. I especially like how

Jesper screws up, he's an amateur, and isn't some superman hero.

I think the Bourne trilogy is magnificent, but Cooper's hero is the

exact antithesis of Jason Bourne.

 

Cloak & Dagger is based, somewhat loosely, on Michael Burke's experiences

in the OSS. Michael Burke later went on to run Ringling Brothers and the

NY Yankees -- pre-Steinbrenner. Burke retired to Ireland and in his memoirs,

spoke highly of GC. They met during filming, and remained friends until

GC's death.

 

Best,

 

John

[butterscotchgreer]

heehee! you are making me laugh so hard april!!

 

i wanted to watch Finishing School, but my mother was recording something else when it on. it will hopefully come on again so i can see it.

[butterscotchgreer]

Are you mad at me Dan?

[CoopfanDan]

Yes Theresa, I have seen the Bride Came C.O.D and loved it as I have every single Bette Davis that I have watched. She is the best actress of all time in my opinion. She is ranked at numbe 2 on the AFI greatest actresses of all time behind Katherine Heburn but I feel that she should have been ranked at number one as Katherine Hepburn while a very good actress may be a little over rated in my estimate. She did win the most oscars and am not sure if they were all deserved or not. Bette Davis is a better actress in my view.

 

I'm glad you finally got a chance to see my favorite Hitchcock film Rebecca. I love his more action oriented films as well but this one is the best for creepy mystery. There was a joke in the Abbott and Costello movie Time of their Lives where the housekeeper was asked if she was in the movie Rebecca and she did look a great deal like the lady who played in it. I didn't understand the joke as a kid but now do after seeing Rebecca many times now.

[CoopfanDan]

No Theresa, I have seen that you sent me a private email but everytime I go to check my pm's the message board logs me out for some reason so I have been unable to check on them.

[MissGoddess]

Dan---fascinating stuff about Burke and Cloak and Dagger, thanks so much!

 

Theresa---I didnt' get to finish *Finishing School* , but I recorded the remainder so I can watch it tonight. So far, the girls went away for the weekend pretending to be staying with a maiden aunt who in reality was some old actress they hired to put up a front. Hee! I love it.