Any Gary Cooper Fans?

[CoopsGal]

Bad side? Well, I wouldn't count her among the list of my favorites.

 

 

I couldn't honestly say either way because I haven't given any of her movies a fair chance. From what I've seen of her alongside Gary; I'd have to say no. I suppose I just admire women who are strong, quiet, wise and beautiful yet aren't over-powering or dare I say...dangerous.

 

 

With Marlene I just feel she's too forceful and 'harsh'; as if she's better than everyone else on screen and she knows it.

 

 

I like the humble yet distinguished actresses that leave you in awe of their charm, beauty, grace and wit; yet also have that underlying depth of wisdom, patience, gentleness and humility that inspire you to dig deep within yourself and carry on their legacy. To be quite honest I don't think Marlene falls into that category.

 

 

I know I seem very picky and silly about describing all this, but in today's society hero's aren't found as easily as they were 'back in the day'. They just seemed to have disappeared and are now replaced by women who set the standard high for flakiness (I know it isn't a word).

 

 

I realize I set my standards high and not too many people amount to women such as Greer Garson, Theresa Wright or Ginger Rogers (a few of my personal favorites) but I suppose that's why I love these older movies so much; they teach others (myself included) that a true woman isn't always admired or praised for her physical beauty but it's on the inside that you find what matters most. And it's those women with such integrity that are, sadly, more forgotten than others.

 

 

All right, I'll step off my soapbox. I warned you guys: the slightest little thing could set me off! But, Frank, that's the best I could do to explain my feelings of why I don't care for Marlene.

[coopsgirl]

You are cracking me up!!! I went back and found the episode on my SNL dvd collection where Madeliene Kahn was the host and I watched the skit of her and Baba Wawa (ha!) and it was cracking me up!!

[CoopsGal]

Have you ever seen Blazing Saddles and Madeline Kahn's "Marlene"?

 

 

Oh for Heaven sakes, don't remind me, lol.

[CoopsGal]

Okay, I could not resist:

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Barbra Walters: Good evening, and welcome to "Not For Wadies Only". I'm Baba Wawa, and tonight we'll be talking to an actual wiving wegend - the incwedible Mawene Dietrich.

 

 

Marlene Dietrich: Thank you. It's gweat to be heah.

 

 

Barbra Walters: Mawene, what is it wike to be wiving wegend?

 

 

Marlene Dietrich: Wet me just say, it's been a weawy wich expewience.

 

 

Barbra Walters: I'm so impwessed. Mawene.. you are so with and swender. How do you stay so swim?

 

 

Marlene Dietrich: Swimming keeps me swim. My daily wegimen incwudes swimming twelve waps in my pool. It's wonderful for my wegs.

 

 

Barbra Walters: Mawene, tell us the secwet of your perpetual youth.

 

 

Marlene Dietrich: I only eat healthy foods. I get massaged weguwally, and.. I've had evewything wifted.

 

 

Barbra Walters: [ incredulous ] You mean you've had your wegs wifted?!

 

 

Marlene Dietrich: Evewything, even my weah.

 

 

Barbra Walters: Your what?

 

 

Marlene Dietrich: My weah.

 

 

Barbra Walters: Your wear?

 

 

Marlene Dietrich: What?

 

 

Barbra Walters: Dwop it.

 

 

Marlene Dietrich: You bwought it up. [ laughing in ] Of course, wooking gwamowous on film isn't all beauty secwets. A wot of it is wighting. I do all my own wighting.

 

 

Barbra Walters: I didn't weawize you wote.

 

 

Marlene Dietrich: I don't. I wight.

 

 

Barbra Walters: You're weferring to.. [ moves her fingers as though typing ] ..typewriter witing, wight?

 

 

Marlene Dietrich: [ pointing to lights ] I'm weferring to ewectwic wighting. You see, in pictures, bwight wighting can be vewy unfwattering, particuwawy if it makes my wegs wook white. Baba, am I wong to want to appear wadiant?

 

 

Barbra Walters: No, that's very weasonable.. [ to herself ] Hawy Weasonuh.. Hawy Weasonuh.. five million dollars.. I'm wich! [ to camera ] Well, we've wun out of time. Before we go, I wanted to mention what a beautiful fur you have on. Is it mink?

 

 

Marlene Dietrich: No, it's just a silly wabbit.

 

 

Barbra Walters: Well, Mawene, it's been a weal pweasure. I thank you. [ into camera ] Don't forget to dwop in next week when our guest will be Elmer Fudd. Good night.

[FrankGrimes]

Mrs. Cooper -- That's very funny.

 

Here's Madeline's "Marlene" song from *Blazing Saddles*:

 

Here I stand, the goddess of Desire

Set men on fire

I have this power

Morning noon and night it's drink and dancing

Some quick romancing

And then a shower

Stage door johnnies always surround me

They always hound me

With one request

Who can satisfy their lustful habits

I'm not a rabbit

I need some rest

 

I'm tired

Sick and tired of love

I've had my fill of love

From below and above

Tired, tired of being admired

Tired of love uninspired

Let's face it

I'm tired

 

I've been with 1000's of men

Again and again

They promise the moon

They always coming and going

Going and coming

And always too soon

Right girls?

 

I'm tired,

Tired of playing the game

Ain't it a crying shame

I'm so tired

G-dammit I'm exhausted

 

Tired, tired of playing the game

Ain't it a crying shame

I'm so tired

 

{Soldiers:}

She's tired (She's tired)

Sick and tired of love (Give her a break)

She's had her fill of love (She's not a snake)

From bellow and above (Can't you see she's sick)

Tired (She's bushed)

Tired of being admired (Let her alone)

Tired of love uninspired (Get off the phone)

She's tired (Don't you know she's pooped)

 

I've been with 1000's of men

Again and again

They sing the same tune

They start with Byron and Shelly

And jump on your belly

And bust your ballon

Aye!

 

Tired, tired of playing the game

Ain't it a freakin' shame

I'm so...

Let's face it everything below the waist is kapput!

 

{Soldiers:}

Tired!

 

I know we're now off the Cooper path right now, but don't you fret, I'll have a *Cloak and Dagger* review tomorrow. Hey, maybe even a review for *The Fountainhead*, too.

[CoopsGal]

The board is not user-friendly yet

 

 

You're right about that! I was almost bitten by the quote button yesterday.

 

 

I am starting to hate this forum. Sometimes it doesn't post and will erase all my work!

 

 

Why, Robert Osbourne; why do you hate me so?

[CoopsGal]

I know we're now off the Cooper path right now, but don't you fret, I'll have a Cloak and Dagger review tomorrow. Hey, maybe even a review for The Fountainhead, too.

 

 

Oh goodie-goodie gumdrop! I'll be looking forward to that, Frank!

 

 

I'm gonna make up for all my ramblings:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FrankGrimes]

Fantastic presentation, Mrs. Coop. I'll have to examine those pics a little since I'm unfamiliar with many of them.

 

I'm gonna make up for all my ramblings:

 

I love ramblings, but I know it can be off-putting to others. I just like having some fun sometimes.

 

Why, Robert Osbourne; why do you hate me so?

 

Trust me, you don't wanna know.

[CoopsGal]

I love ramblings, but I know it can be off-putting to others. I just like having some fun sometimes.

 

 

For me, rambling is what makes a conversation more interesting; you learn things about a person you wouldn't have known before if it were always on topic, but I know this forum is a little more strict because it's very popular and many people come here to read about Gary, not our fascination with Marlene's barely-there eyebrows.

 

 

But as you said, it may be off-putting to many others so I'll just use my sad excuse at posting another freakish amount of Gary pictures and not feel guilty because I know I have supplied enough eye-candy to distract them from my ramblings.

[CoopfanDan]

Marlene Dietrich gave one of the best co-starring perfromances with Gary Cooper of an any of his 30's films in Desire (a personal favorite). You are all quite right and don't think she was capable of giving good sweet girl perfomance as she was quite limited but as a jewel thief/swindler she was perfect. I have not seen any of her other movies except for the two she did with Gary Cooper. Her eyebrows were more than likely a reflection of the time and country of which she came from.

 

There are many actors and actresses that I admire a great deal less than Marlene from back then. First and formost would be Jean Harlow and next would probably be Joan Crawford. I pretty much dislike anyone that was trying to be a sex goddess with Marilyn Monroe very high on my dislike list. I find myself very much attracted to Bette Davis though and it might be that most people did not find her all that attractive and this may be a small part in what attracts me to her. I don't know what she was like as a person in real life but on the screen in Now Voyager and Dark Victory she played the part of a supremely good woman with intense inner strength so well that I now see her like this in real life or at least a part of her very complex and super intelligent real self. From what I have read she was quite a bit more intellegent than any other female star. She may have been more intelligent than all of the male actors as well and probably all of the directors as well. I also see Greer Garson in this way (smart, sophisicated, tremendous inner strength and supreme goodness) and they would be my two favorite actresses for sure at this point in my classic movie walk. Neither one of these actresses ever was in a movie with Gary Cooper but that makes little difference to me as it just means there are a great deal more movies that I have to enjoy.

 

As for the sex goddesses from back then or the one's that were poster girls I tremendoulsy dislike this sort of thing. I know there are many that post on here that are all very big on the pre-code movies. I for one support the code that was enforced on the movie companies one hundred percent. I think that this is what attracts me to movies from back then as they showed more decency than do movies of today. My only problem is that that they need to enforce the code again for modern movies. I have very little interst in watching pre-code Jean Harlow movies. They would rank last on my list for things to see.

[FrankGrimes]

Mrs. Coop -- For me, rambling is what makes a conversation more interesting; you learn things about a person you wouldn't have known before if it were always on topic, but I know this forum is a little more strict because it's very popular and many people come here to read about Gary, not our fascination with Marlene's barely-there eyebrows.

 

You said it, me lady. I enjoy reading the serious Gary Cooper talk here in this thread but I have to say, I cherish the Sugarbritches, Skirty, Wacky Obsessive, Carol Lynley stuff very, very much. I love the mix.

 

It usually takes just one post to turn a conversation, so I usually don't worry about my (and others) wacky, obsessive ramblings.

 

Dan the Man -- I guess we're at the opposite ends of the "sex appeal in film" table. I happen to love it. Barbara Stanwyck in *Baby Face* drives me crazy. I love, love, love femme fatales. A film with sexual tension will always capture my imagination.

 

So is this how I live my own life? Heck no. If I ever met up with a "Baby Face" in real life, I'd be ruined. I couldn't handle such a woman. I just like watching them. I'm a voyeur.

 

The Marlene film I want to see the most is *The Blue Angel*. It's the film that vaulted her to stardom.

[CoopsGal]

You are all quite and don't think she was capable of giving good sweet girl perfomance as she was quite limited but as a jewel thief/swindler she was perfect

 

 

On that I must agree.

 

She was superb at acting in the style she knew best and I'm glad she stuck with it -- knowing her limitations and talents for such genras. I'm just saying that she wouldn't be a particular favorite of mine because of my reasons stated above -- or...below. But I always love to know your thoughts, Dan; you bring up such wonderful debates in which many others would never bring to my attention.

[CoopfanDan]

I love the romance element in classic movies not the sexual aspect. There are quite a few Bette Davis movies I will never watch with top on my list being her early one's such as Of Human Bondage. Of course there are many movies that are tops on my list that only have a small romantic story attached to a larger threme such as many of the westerns I like and war movies. I am not a real big fan of the sexual element in The Fountainhead my least favorite aspect of the movie. I guess when you have been through all the stuff (a war included) that I have been through sex and sexual attrativeness means very little. It is all about what the people are like inside 100 percent of the time with me. Cheap hussies and love goddesses don't do anything for me. For example the female love interest for Gary Cooper in "One Sunday afternoon" may demonstrate this quite well on the one hand he has Fay Wray a very good looking person I guess on the outside but just a tramp inside and the women who he married a very attractive but plain, shy and decent lady Frances Fuller. Throughout the movie he regrets that he didn't marry Fay Wray, but in the end he comes to his senses and understands that the lady he married was the best choice. To me the character that Fay Wray did in this movie was at the bottom of the scale for me. Her character disquested me to my inner core much like all flirty women out there that flaunt themselves at men. I have no interest in this aspect of movies.

 

I only like this movie so much because Frances Fuller was so wonderful in it and balanced out Fay Wray's character and because Gary made the right choice.

[CoopsGal]

I adore Frances Fuller!!

 

 

It's such a shame she isn't in more films -- she'd be my next favorite actress!

 

 

I love the romance element in classic movies not the sexual aspect.

 

 

By golly, Dan, then you must love our adventures! LOL

[CoopfanDan]

Thanks Kim for your comments as well as you certainly contribute so much to all these boards in your appreciation of Gary Cooper and other classic movie stars.

 

I am not one to sugar coat things on my very strong views on things and hope that it doesn't get me in trouble some time here. If I like a movie, actor or actress I will certainly let everyone know about it and why, but in the same sense I am very much going to let people know if I don't like a movie, actor or actress and why I don't. I never look at any aspects of not offending people when I type these messages out, which may be my biggest strength or my biggest weakness to some.

 

There are some occasions that I come back later and delete a post or two when I feel that it is just to opinioned but for the most part I will stand behind anything I post and I do respect those that are polar opposites of me and strongly opinionated as well. Afterall we are all different in our tastes. I tend to graviate to those that are not as popular for some reason but this could be because I am so out of place in today's culture and values. I often fill like a fish out of water in my life. I truely wish there were a way to go back in time to the early 1900's when they had the gentleman's code and the values were so much different and everything wasn't about sex and violence.

[CoopfanDan]

Yes I have been know to sneak a peak at those adventures from time to time on your board.

 

I have never seen another Francis Fuller movie and this is a real shame as she had such a wonderful character in One Sunday Afternoon. I am going to have to go and see what else I can find on her.

[FrankGrimes]

Dan -- I'm pretty doggone greedy. I like romanticism AND sexuality in women, both in film and in real life. I like sweet AND dirty nothings whispered in my ear. I think this is why I love Hitchcock films. Hitch's films often feature both of these beautiful aspects. *To Catch a Thief* is the most sensual Hitchcock film for me. It contains wonderful romance and strong sexuality. The film sizzles.

 

Let me clarify one thing: sexuality does not mean a women has to act like Marilyn Monroe or Jean Harlow or Barbara Stanwyck in *Baby Face*. Not at all. I find the taste of sexuality is at its sweetest when it's subtle, although still quite palpable.

 

I'm a hopeless romantic. I don't like handing over my heart to just anyone. I'm about as far from a player as a straight guy can be. I just happen to find erotic films to be the most entertaining. That's not to say I don't like a good ol' fashioned love story. Hey, I own *The Ghost and Mrs. Muir* on DVD for goodness sake. I love films like *Portrait of Jennie*. I'm hoping *Peter Ibbetson* is on that level.

 

I am not one to sugar coat things on my very strong views on things and hope that it doesn't get me in trouble some time here. If I like a movie, actor or actress I will certainly let everyone know about it and why, but in the same sense I am very much going to let people know if I don't like a movie, actor or actress and why I don't. I never look at any aspects of not offending people when I type these messages out, which may be my biggest strength or my biggest weakness to some.

 

I wouldn't want it any other way, Dan.

[CoopsGal]

Let me clarify one thing: sexuality does not mean a women has to act like Marilyn Monroe or Jean Harlow or Barbara Stanwyck in Baby Face. Not at all. I find the taste of sexuality is at its sweetest when it's subtle, although still quite palpable.

 

 

THANK YOU for clarifying that, Frank; I must admit: I was getting a bit worried there.

[CoopfanDan]

I don't know I guess there is a fine line between romance and sexual appeal. I think there are inner connected to a great degree but prefer when the love aspect is brought forth over just the desire to have someone for the sexual aspect.

 

With Hitchcock films there is so much suspense that it really doesn't matter on the romance or sexual nature for me that much. In fact I can't even remember the sexual nature of To Catch A thief. There was just so much mystery and stuff going on in that movie to remember anything else but that for me.

[FrankGrimes]

THANK YOU for clarifying that, Frank; I must admit: I was getting a bit worried there.

 

Ohhh, I'm harmless. I am a straight guy though, so I do like women, and I'm not embarrassed to say so. Maybe it's the Gary Cooper in me coming out. By the way, I got one thing on Coop, though. I'm a serious loyalist. It's one and only with me.

[CoopsGal]

I am not one to sugar coat things on my very strong views on things and hope that it doesn't get me in trouble some time here. If I like a movie, actor or actress I will certainly let everyone know about it and why, but in the same sense I am very much going to let people know if I don't like a movie, actor or actress and why I don't.

 

 

We know it, Dan! And that's why we love you. We know you'll give us the truth and we can trust you'll speak them with good intentions -- either way. Your honesty is something that's inspired me to do the same and I'm so glad you stand strong to it. Most everyone here is honest in their opinions and that makes me cherish this board even more.

 

 

By all means, give it to us straight. It doesn't do a bit of good to make someone sound, or seem, better than they really are because you fear they may disagree; granted, everyone has their own opinions, but it's good to know where someone stands so we can better prepare ourselves for a good, healthy debate.

 

 

If these messages are confusing -- don't worry; not much sense finds its way into my head after 2am easily, so bear with me.

[CoopfanDan]

"Let me clarify one thing: sexuality does not mean a women has to act like Marilyn Monroe or Jean Harlow or Barbara Stanwyck in Baby Face. Not at all. I find the taste of sexuality is at its sweetest when it's subtle, although still quite palpable."

This is what I think I was trying to point out. There is always a sexual tension in any romance movie but with many of those you mention above, this sexual tension and twisted nature overides any love or romantic element. I don't like when that happens. I do remember seeing a commercial on forbidden Hollywood set and the one lady get's slapped and she refers to like that and to hit her again. To me the romance and love aspect is all done at that point. That forbidden hollywood collection commercial is what makes me very skeptical at watching any pre-code movies that don't have Gary Cooper in them as they don't seem all that much different than movies of today and that is a bad thing in my book.

[CoopsGal]

Ohhh, I'm harmless. I am a straight guy though, so I do like women, and I'm not embarrased to say so. Maybe it's the Gary Cooper in me coming out. By the way, I got one thing on Coop, though. I'm a serious loyalist. It's one and only with me.

 

 

Oh boy! You've hit it dead on.

 

 

I'm an extreme loyalist as well. Once I find an actor, I will dive deep into the obsession and not come out for, sometimes, years. I can't just pace myself and buy a couple movies each year on that one particular person -- I need to buy them all...immediately! If it's Gary Cooper -- it's only Gary Cooper. I need to find as much information about him as possible or else I don't feel as though I've mastered the obsession, lol.

 

 

I know it sounds crazy, but to love more than one person is foreign to me. I never have more than one crush; so I'm at least thankful to know that I'll be a good wife someday, lol.

 

 

Most people have more than one celebrity crush -- I suppose it's only natural -- and I know you're probably speaking about women in real life (such as dating and what-not) but I've never dated so I just stick with the men who are no longer living...it's so much safer that way and you don't have to worry about the unfaithfulness.

 

 

Wow...I am so done talking now; I'm actually beginning to scare myself.

[FrankGrimes]

Dan -- I don't know I guess there is a fine line between romance and sexual appeal. I think there are inner connected to a great degree but prefer when the love aspect is brought forth over just the desire to have someone for the sexual aspect.

 

I'm not for sleeping around. That has never been me. However, I don't mind watching Barbara Stanwyck sleep her way to the top in *Baby Face*. I can separate my own personal being with what I'm watching. Plus, Barbara's character (Lily Powers) in *Baby Face* sees the result of her selfish ways at the end of the film.

 

With Hitchcock films there is so much suspense that it really doesn't matter on the romance or sexual nature for me that much. In fact I can't even remember the sexual nature of To Catch A thief. There was just so much mystery and stuff going on in that movie to remember anything else but that for me.

 

That's why people are interesting... they may see or think differently than you. To Catch a Thief's sensuality surely connects with me. Grace Kelly and Cary Grant put on a show. A "fireworks show," if you will.

 

This is what I think I was trying to point out. There is always a sexual tension in any romance movie but with many of those you mention above, this sexual tension and twisted nature overides any love or romantic element. I don't like when that happens.

 

My favorite kind of film is film noir. The reason why I like noir is because it's very grey and it deals with dirty thoughts and deeds. Now, does this mean I wish to partake in these kinds of deeds? No. Dirty thoughts? Sure. One can imagine being with Gloria Grahame or Gene Tierney or Linda Darnell or Joan Bennett or Veronica Lake and so on. But what noir teaches you is that if you decide to chase these dirty thoughts and deeds, you may meet a horrible fate. In a way, they are morality tales. I find them to be captivating, just as many others find fairytale romances to be captivating. It's whatever moves you.

 

I'm an encourager, not a discourager. I love that ButterscotchGreer loves romantic tales. That is beautiful. I'm very curious to hear Mrs. Cooper's thoughts on film noir. She may hate them, she may like them, I just don't know. I like that she's branching out. I love that Coop's Girl loves MST3K. Others would find such a show childish. Oh, well. I like to look for the good and not the bad in a person. I try to connect with them on their level, someway, somehow.

[CoopfanDan]

I still find my greatest entertainment value in watching a good completly non-sexual romantic story be it a pure romance story, a western, a war movie or a comedy. Of course while I think most of Gary Cooper's movies to not have that much sexual appeal or tension, many of the women that post here state that for them there is a great deal of sexual appeal to them. So I guess as a guy I can watch a Gary Cooper movie for the story and never notice the things that others of the female persuasion pick up on.