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RETURN of the TCM Programming Challenge

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You rule! I love the schedule. And I love your crafty use of your previous premiere of "1776" as a previously scheduled feature. Even though you gave up the Saint and the Falcon, we still have some of the same flicks in common, which just goes to show, great minds think alike. I wish I thought of the great interview bonus feature from The Manchurian Candidate DVD, with Frankenheimer and Sinatra discussing how Frank broke his hand in the Judo fight scene, to show as a short.


I love the International Films, especially Bicycle Thief and Gate of Hell. As well as the Mask of Dimitrios and the rest of the Lorre/Greenstreet line up. Also, the Right Stuff and John Glenn's anniversary was a great touch. And thanks for showing some Ronnie Reagan in Kings Row. Your schedule is the equivalent of comfort food.


I was going to use Brief Encounter in my Escapism in the Movies theme, but couldn't fit it in.

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Hey, Matt, thanks very much. Always nice to hear after so much work went into it. But we all know that feeling who have done one (or two now).


You know, it's funny, but I was looking at the new August TCM schedule and at one point I found myself thinking, "Say, this is as good as one of our Challenge schedules", lol.


Waiting to see what others come up with here.

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Hi all, ignorant me again. I've enjoyed everyone's schedules so far and have been working on one of my own. Anyway, I have a question--If a film was made by one of those old silent companies, like FamousPlayers/Lasky, how do you find out who owns the rights now? Does Paramount?

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No problem. I'm still going with my remakes idea and was wondering about silent movies like "Male and Female" "The Cheat" "Four Horseman of the Apocalypse" and so on. I think they're Paramount, but I'm not sure.


Also wanted to work in a couple of silents by somebody like Constance Talmadge. Something like "Duchess of Buffalo" or "Venus iof Venice" or "Dulcy", but don't even know whether they are still available or not. They are First National Pictures.


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Hello traceyk65 -

Hope I can give you an assist on your questions. (Also hope I give you the correct answers).


Regarding "The Four Horsemen of the Apocaplypse", feel free to use it.

See this article on the website about the upcoming evening of Rudolf Valentino films on May 21st.




As for "Male and Female" or "The Cheat", I can't say if they have been presented in the recent past on TCM. (Is "Male or Female" a notorious film about an adrogynous male or male transvestite? If so, I am aware of the film and can say it hasn't been shown. I would've remembered that showing up.)


As for the films from First National, I am going out on a limb and say they are available for scheduling because Warner Brothers and First National merged sometime around 1929 and went by the full name of Warner Brothers/First National Pictures for awhile. I am betting that all the FIrst National films became the property of the newly formed company - which evolved into the Warner Brothers we've recognized since the '30s.


I hope that is the correct answer as I have a evening scheduled that is dependent on some First National films being part of the Warners library.


If you want to browse some silents that have been shown on TCM's Silent Sunday Nights, go to the "search the database" page. With the search window on the left side of the page. Search a topic. When those results come up, there is a new search window at the top of the page that has the option of searching the website. Select the site option and type in "Silent Sunday Nights" and hit enter. You will get a list of all the website articles about the "Silent Sunday Night" line-ups. (It will only display about five articles but you can click on the "display the next 40 results" link and get the entire list.)


Hope this is of some use to you. Looking forward to seeing the final schedule when it is ready.


Kyle In Hollywood

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Thanks, Kyle, and my apologies, Tracey, for not getting back to you sooner. I was at work until just a little while ago and I wanted to come home to check a few references I have here.


As Kyle mentioned, Four Horsemen can be listed as "ps" (meaning previously scheduled on TCM). It looks like (Metro) should be listed as production company (as opposed to (MGM)).


Also, if I may expand on a subject Kyle brought up about searching the website for info. I have found that if you search by the title of the film, you will get a list of films, for example one of the ones you chose "Male and Female," and there is a listing for the film from 1919 directed by DeMille. After clicking the title to get into the description, you will see a series of columns in the database. Going down the center two columns, you should find the listing for the Production company and the Distribution company. This should help you in determining where the proper credit lies.


If you then look to the left column called "Main links" ("Overview," "Full Credits", etc.) and go down the list, you will come to "User Reviews" and then "Articles". If "Articles" is in bold (i.e., Articles), that means there is a TCM article and thus has shown on TCM. If "Articles" is not in bold, there is no TCM article and likely isn't in the TCM library or been shown on TCM. (This is not written in stone, however, as some have been shown on TCM without an article.) For Male and Female, "Articles" is not in bold. And considering that TCM's library basically consists of Warner Bros., RKO, and MGM, and that "Male and Female" is Paramount, it is likely it hasn't been aired on TCM and would therefore probably be a Premiere.


If you were to do the search on Four Horsemen, you would see the Articles is in bold and there are TCM articles, so it has aired on TCM.


I looked up the three First National films and they all appear to be Constance Talmadge Productions that were released through First National. And First National, as Kyle mentioned, became part of Warner Bros.


The main thing I wanted to look at when I got home is a book I have that lists the WB film library (which, in the introduction, says it includes about 6,000 titles, consisting of films, shorts, and animated series, for WB, MGM, and RKO). I can't find Venus of Venice, Duchess of Buffalo, or the silent version of Dulcy listed in here. It is possible that Talmadge and her sister, Norma, may have kept the rights to the films. (It is amazing how astute many of the silent stars were when it came to big business.) There is also the other heartbreaking possibilty that they no longer exist. The book mentions that half of the films made prior to 1950 are lost due to nitrate deteriation.

If I can be of any other help, please let me know.

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Matt, filmlover, kudos on two wonderful schedules. Very creative way of mixing things up with the TCM programming. I particularly liked Matt's Rodney King themed Can't we all just get along? choices (very funny) and the Darkness After Dawn pick, Conflict; and filmlover's Ann Sheridan birthday tribute choices (love her) and the Lorre/Greenstreet teamups. Good stuff, both of you!



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No problem. I'm still going with my remakes idea and was wondering about silent movies like "Male and Female" "The Cheat" "Four Horseman of the Apocalypse" and so on. I think they're Paramount, but I'm not sure.


Also wanted to work in a couple of silents by somebody like Constance Talmadge. Something like "Duchess of Buffalo" or "Venus iof Venice" or "Dulcy", but don't even know whether they are still available or not. They are First National Pictures.>>




Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Am preparing another business trip.


On the Paramount silents, the "Four Horsemen" would be a previously screened. I think it is getting screened again this month as part of the Rudy V tribute. "The Cheat" and "Male and Female" may have screened a few years back when TCM premiered the DeMIlle documentary by Brownlow. If Path is out there, he may know for sure. Paramount is notorious for not knowing what is in their vaults but lately seems to be working to change that reputation.


As for First National, they merged with the Brothers Warner back in the late twenties or very early 1930s, so those films would likely be considered part of the Warners library and thus, part of the TCM library.


Now, do those First National films still exist or are they lost films? For the Challenge I would think since there is not a definitive list of lost films, that you can use them .


Hope this helps!

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Hi, Lynn,


The subject of "lost" films got me intrigued just now and I went online to see if anybody has done a list. Here is one I found for Silent movies "presumed lost":




(the whole site looks very interesting, in that it is dedicated to the the silent era.)


And good news, tracey, none of the films you mentioned are on the list.


I wonder if anyone has done a sound films "lost" list? it would be very interesting - and sad - to learn what may be gone forever. (Though I always have hope that somewhere sometime someone will find a print in a warehouse or a theater in some small town or something like that. It has happened.)

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...But What I Really Want To Do Is Direc...er, Program


Presenting The Second Edition of Kyle In Hollywood's Programming Challenge.

For The Week of July 2nd (Sunday) to July 8th (Saturday).

(Notes to follow in a separate post)

http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/message.jspa?messageID=7799016#7799016 (added 9June)


Sunday July 2nd

"Program 'Holiday' Films, right?"

3:00am Sinner's Holiday (1930) WB 60m

4:00am Holiday For Sinners (1952) MGM 73m

5:15am Holiday (1938) RKO 93m

7:00am Syncopation Station - Summer Holiday (1942) MGM 92m

9:00am Roman Holiday (1953) Para/ps 119m


"Oh! Did you mean "Holliday"?

11:00am Born Yesterday (1950) Col / ps 102m (Judy Holliday)

1:00pm Hour Of The Gun (1967) UA / ps 101m (Doc Holliday)


3:00pm The Essentials (reprise) - Destry Rides Again (1939) Para / ps 94m


===Primetime Hours===

Appearing Nightly - Marlene Dietrich - No Cover Charge

5:00pm - The Blue Angel (1930) Para / ps 100m

7:00pm - Manpower (1941) WB 101m


9:00pm Silent Sunday Nights - Modern Times (1936) UA/ps 89m

10:30pm "The Tramp And The Dictator" - Kevin Brownlow 2002 58m

11:30pm The Great Dictator (1941) UA/ps 127m

1:45 am To Be Or Not To Be (1942) Para / ps 99m


Monday 3rd July

3:30am Make Me A Star (1932) Para / ps 70m

4:45am Sing Your Worries Away (1942) RKO 71m

6:00am Sing, And Like It (1934) RKO 72m

7:15am The Meanest Gal In Town (1934) RKO 62m

8:30am Tish (1942) MGM 85m


Gene Kelly - Portrait of an Actor

10:00am Black Hand (1950) MGM 92m

11:45am The Devil Makes Three (1952) MGM 90m

1:30pm Living In A Big Way (1947) MGM 102m

3:30pm "Gene Kelly - Anatomy Of A Dancer" (2002) 82m


===Primetime Hours===

One Night Only - The Barrymores Together!

5:00pm Grand Hotel (1932) MGM 115m (John & Lionel)

7:00pm Rasputin And The Empress (1932) MGM 121m (Ethel, John & Lionel)

9:15pm Arsene Lupin (1932) MGM 84m (John & Lionel)

11:00pm Night Flight (1933) MGM 91m (John & Lionel)


12:45am None But The Lonely Heart (1944) RKO 113m (just Ethel)


Tuesday 4th July - Independence Day

E Pluribus Unum

(13 Films with a Historical Context or Cultural Significance related to each of the 13 Orig. Colonies)


3:00am Janice Meredith -silent- (1924) MGM 118m (American Revolution)


5:00am The Vanishing Virginian (1942) MGM 97m (Politics/Race Relations)

New Jersey

6:45am Bad Little Angel (1939) MGM 72m (Well, its just New Jersey)

Rhode Island

8:00am Mother Carey's Chickens (1938) RKO 82m (Newport Estates)


9:30am All The Brothers Were Valiant (1953) MGM 101m (Whaling Industry)


11:15am Drango (1957) UA / ps 92m (Reconstruction)

New Hampshire

1:00pm Our Town (1940) UA / ps 89m (Thorton Wilder's 'Grover's Corners')

South Carolina

2:30pm Reap The Wild Wind (1942) Para / ps 125m (Charleston Shipping Trade)


===Primetime Hours===


5:00pm Friendly Persuasion (1956) Allied Artists / ps 159m (Pennsylvania Quakers)


8:00pm A Connecticut Yankee... (1949) Para / ps 104m (Mark Twain's Classic)


10:00pm Adventure In Baltimore (1949) RKO 89m (Women's Suffrage)

New York

11:30pm The Toast Of New York (1937) RKO 109m (Jim Fisk/Wall Street & The Gilded Age)

North Carolina

1:30am Carbine Williams (1952) MGM 91m (Rifle Inventor)


Wednesday 5th July

Rich Man, Poor Man, Beggar Man, Thief ...

3:30am My Love Came Back (1940) WB 85m

5:00am Wuthering Heights (1939) Goldwyn / ps 103m

7:00am Kismet (musical) (1955) MGM 112m

9:00am The Thief Of Baghdad (1940) UA / ps 106m


...Doctor, Lawyer and Indian Chief

11:00am The Doctor's Dilemma (1959) MGM 99m

1:00 pm The People Against O'Hara (1951) MGM 102m

3:00pm Sitting Bull (1954) UA / ps 105m


==Primetime Hours==

Fredric March - Star Of The Month

5:00pm Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (1932) Para / ps 96m

7:00pm Design For Living (1933) Para / ps 90m

8:45pm Smilin' Through (1932) MGM 100m

11:00pm Sign Of The Cross (1933) Para / ps 125m

1:15m Death Takes A Holiday (1934) Para / ps 78m


Thursday 6th July

3:00am Festival Of Shorts #25 "Passing Parade" - 'Our Old Car/Annie Was A Wonder'

3:30am Anne Of Green Gables (1934) RKO 78m

5:00am Anne Of Windy Poplars (1940) RKO 86m


Billy and Bobby Mauch's Birthday

6:30am Penrod's Double Trouble (1938) WB 65m

7:45am Penrod and His Twin Brother (1938) WB 68m


9:00am The Broadway Melody (1929) MGM 102m

11:00am The Broadway Melody of 1936 (1935) MGM 110m

1:00pm The Broadway Melody of 1938 (1937) MGM 110m

3:00pm The Broadway Melody of 1940 (1940) MGM 102m


===Primetime Hours===

The Greatest Showman On Earth

Early Films of the Shows of Florenz Ziegfeld Jr.

5:00pm Show Boat (1929) Univ / ps 118m

7:00pm Glorifying The American Girl (1929) Para - PREMIERE 87m

8:30pm Sally (1930) First National 103m (w/Marilyn Miller)

10:30pm Whoopee! (1930) Goldwyn / ps 94m (w/Eddie Cantor)

12:15am Rio Rita (1929) RKO 135m


Friday 7th July


That's Just The Ticket

3:00am Sweepstakes Winner (1939) WB 59m

4:00am Lucky Partners (1940) RKO 99m

5:45am The Man With A Million (1954) UA / ps 89m


Yul Brynner's Birthday

7:30am The Brothers Karamazov (1958) MGM 149m

10:00am The Journey (1959) MGM 125m

12:15pm Solomon And Sheba (1959) UA / ps 141m

2:45pm The Magnificent Seven (1960) UA / ps 128m


===Primetime Hours===

"You're Getting Veddy Sleepy..."

5:00pm Fingers At The Window (1942) MGM 80m

6:30pm Nightmare (1956) WB 89m

8:00pm Carefree (1938) RKO 83m

9:30pm Svengali (1931) WB 79m

11:00pm TCM Imports - The Testament Of Dr Mabuse (1933) 111m

1:00am The Court Jester (1956) Para / ps 101m


Saturday 8th July

3:00am Slightly Dangerous (1943) MGM 95m

5:00am Darkness After Dawn - Scene Of The Crime (1949) MGM 95m

6:45am Algiers (1938) UA / ps 96m

8:30am Cartoon Alley -original - Pepe Le Pew

_______("The Cat's Bah" / "For Scent -imental Reasons" / "Little Beau Pepe")

9:00am Lone Star Cinema - Union Pacific (1939) Para / ps 135m

11:30am Knights Of The Round Table (1953) MGM 116m

1:30pm The Rounders (1965) MGM 85m

3:00pm Dead Heat On A Merry-Go-Round (1966) Col / ps 108m


===Primetime Hours===

James Mason Should Be 'Canonized'

5:00pm The Essentials - "A Star Is Born" - restored (1954) WB / ps 180m

8:15pm The Last Of Shelia (1973) WB - PREMIERE 126m

10:30pm Heaven Can Wait (1978) Para / ps 100m

12:30pm Mayerling (1968) MGM 127m

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Bleary eyed and half asleep at this late hour but all I can say is WOW!


These are all terrific schedules. There's still time to participate. The Challenge doesn't end until midnight (your time) on May 31st.


If my head is exploding at the riches in this thread I can only imagine what TCM Programmer must be thinking!

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Kyle, it is almost impossible to tell you what a great schedule you have placed. I can tell TCM programmer is going to be using your ideas again.


This particular schedule is so filled with great moments that I need to comment on several:


1. Going from "Holiday" to "Holliday" was not only clever, it was hilarious. I might have thought of Judy but never would have thought to remember Doc. That's why you are so good at this.


2. The Barrymores tribute is something I am really glad you did. I believe it is something that could be expanded to include more films into an all day tribute because I would love to see them all.


3. Independence Day. You have outdone yourself, Kyle. This grouping is completely genius, I really mean that. Thinking not only of including the original 13 colonies, but also important parts of Americana history at the same time...phew, wow! And then to slip easily into...


4. Rich Man, Beggar Man, Thief...sigh, this is going to be "drinks for all' again at the Roosevelt.


5. Terrific films that I would like to see in your Ziegfeld tribute.


6. Boyer and Pepe, of course.


7. And I love that you are premiering The Last of Sheila. I like this film very much. Stephen Sondheim and Anthony Perkins wrote a terrific mystery within a mystery. You make me want to get my DVD out and play it again.


I just looked again at the schedule and even in glancing at from bottom to top, it is hard to believe just how many great ideas and films you incorporated in one week. When I dare to look back at my schedule and then yours, I suddenly feel like an ugly stepsister when Cinderella came forth in all her glory.


Congratulations, Kyle, such an incredible accomplishment.

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Congratulations on completing this task so well, TWICE!!! For me, it was hard enough once;-)


What a tremendously creative way to do July 4th! And I love your tongue-in-cheek Sunday lineup as well. Plus, it seems you and I have similar B movie tastes! Fredric March is a good SOTM choice, one that will probably earn you feaito's vote if he "plays" this time. I'll be interested in seeing that James Mason premiere too!

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Hi path40a and filmlover -

Thanks so much for your kind words and sincere praise. Having taken on the challenge yourselves, you know what it takes to get the finished project to the boards.


I will be honest that the Independence Day line-up didn't start out the way it ended up. "On The Town" and "Christmas In Connecticut" were on the list at the beginning! Just using the 13 colonies idea seemed different enough to be interesting. (I was determined not to go the "Yankee Doodle Dandy" route on the day.) It was completely serendipitous to find all these films with American heritage links. I think "Adventure In Baltimore" focusing on Women's Suffrage spurred the search for more like-minded films. And I was all ready to leave out a colony or two and fill the day with selected shorts such as appopriate FitzPatrick "TravelTalks" and historical two-reelers. ("The Flag", anyone?) I was all set to create a new "Festival Of Shorts" if need be. As much as the film selections seemed too good to be true, that it all was able to fit into a single 24 hour day was even more shocking. The Karma Cops rewarded me almost too well this time.


Path - when you refer to our B-movie tastes, are you referring to Monday morning's line-up? If so, its like the 70's Lobo song - "Me and You and our gal ZaSu". And thanks for the advice you gave me about the 1929 "Show Boat". I don't know how much of the Ziegfeld vision made it into the films of his shows I chose, but I tried to choose titles that made some effort to be true to Ziegfeld with his stars or composers. (If anyone is interested, the list of Ziegfeld-based films could also include "Sunny", "Bitter Sweet", "Rosalie" and "Show Girl in Hollywood". I only wish there was a Friml-scored "Three Musketeers" on film.)


filmlover - Thanks for all your support during this challenge. Your periodic prodding to know how it was coming along kept me motivated. I guess you know why I was able to refuse your offer of "1776" now. And I apologise for being such a tease with the cryptic hints I gave you while I was sussing this out. I hope you don't hold it against me. Honestly, I had to fight to not tell you the Independence Day idea earlier. I was certain you would approve - being the man who created a list of films all related to the Blacklist - an achievement of which I am still envious.


Don't know what to think about the potential transfer of any of these ideas to the actual TCM schedule. TCMprogrammr has been silent around here this time. And I already have been singled out for that honor.(That's right. July 8th (Pulp Fiction Night) is a holiday in my house that week too! Glad I didn't try to program for that Holiday ) I really hope some of the others work gets selected. There is an abundance of good things to choose from.


Thanks so much to you both for the kind and positive critiques of my week. I am truly flattered.


Kyle In Hollywood

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"The Raisuli does not kill women and children."


"This Roosevelt, what kind of rifle does he carry?"


"Gentlemen, if we are killed I hope the world does go to war"


"Come children, we will make good our escape."


"And now, I would like to be alone with my bear."


And lastly, the introduction of Sean Connery's character is one of the top intros to characters on film. Right up there with the dolly in to Ringo's face in Stagecoach, Rhett Butler's intro and Bogie's in Casablanca. Ah, to be able to cut that montage.....


thanks, Sage, for the trip down memory lane of one of my favorite movies!

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I have been in awe of each of you that have contributed schedules on both of the challenges. It has been amazing to watch the considerable depth of thought that has been displayed.


The wit and the range of topics that have been covered is amazing. A feat accomplished out of love of film and love of the challenge cannot be minimized. You are all to be congratulated. I hope that if the programmer uses anyone's day, theme, salute, etc. that they might acknowledge it here. The viewers may not think it's a big deal but I certainly do (and I'm sure others will) and I look forward to seeing the results on TCM. Thank all who took the time and effort.

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Speaking for myself, thank you for the very kind words. Everybody that I have connected with through this thread agrees it is a lot of fun and it feels very fulfilling to be able to schedule a week of films you would like to see on TCM.


As Lynn (lzcutter, who is the host of this second challenge) said below, there is still time before the end of the month for everyone to give it a shot and do a schedule of your own. It would be great to see one from you.



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Toomany, I like to use the title bar as a kind of "Greek chorus" to comment on the overall gist of the discussion -- in a usually ironic fashion; I like to make puns and plays on words, obviously -- and my own specific comments.


The point is that the title of the thread doesn't change, as only the person who started that thread can make such an alteration. As such, I don't understand why anyone would find anything about it confusing.

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