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The Ultimate Film Noir Thread


speedracer5
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Some additions to the list:

 

Joseph Losey - The Prowler, the remake of M, The Criminal

Jean Negulesco - The Mask of Dimitrios, Deep Valley, Nobody Lives Forever, Three Strangers

John Brahm - The Locket, The Lodger, Hangover Square

Jules Dassin - add Thieves' Highway and Rififi

Anatole Litvak - The Long Night, Blues in the Night (a kind of noir musical)

Max Ophuls - The Reckless Moment, Caught

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John Brahm -  The Lodger, Hangover Square

 

I saw these two movies for the first time recently and I liked them a lot.  Laird Cregar was wonderful in both.  I can't say which movie I prefer more - I remember the eerie, terrific ending in "H.S." and "Lodger" had some striking moments also.

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Right now, I'm re-watching The Letter with Bette Davis.  I discovered this film last year during "The Summer of Darkness" (how great was that series?  I almost wouldn't mind them doing it again this year, lol) and absolutely loved it.  Davis plays cold-hearted (yet somehow sympathetic) women so well.  I love the overall aesthetic of the film and the beginning scene is chilling.  John Stephenson and Herbert Marshall have very similar sounding voices.  If one were just listening to the film, it'd be difficult to know who was who.

 

I'm looking forward to acquiring my own copy of this film.

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I rewatched "Fallen Angel" last night.  I haven't seen it since 2010, and I had put it on my "favorites" list in this thread, and I'm glad that my memory didn't fail me.  Terrific film.  Love the contrast between Linda Darnell and Alice Faye - both in looks (light; dark) and personality (sweet; hardened).  Otto Preminger did a nice visual transition at one point between their two faces that really pointed out the difference, in a single glance.  So many other good things to say about it, too, only I don't have a lot of time right now, lol.

 

And I love, love, love Dana Andrews.  I love his voice and I love his demeanor.  I thought he was a hot tamale in "Ball of Fire", too.  I always felt that he and Barbara Stanwyck had a strong chemistry (a lot more than she and Gary Cooper, even though she and Andrews didn't share a lot of screen time), and they would have been great in noirs, as a couple up to no good, or playing off one another.

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I rewatched "Fallen Angel" last night.  I haven't seen it since 2010, and I had put it on my "favorites" list in this thread, and I'm glad that my memory didn't fail me.  Terrific film.  Love the contrast between Linda Darnell and Alice Faye - both in looks (light; dark) and personality (sweet; hardened).  Otto Preminger did a nice visual transition at one point between their two faces that really pointed out the difference, in a single glance.

 

And I love, love, love Dana Andrews.  I love his voice and I love his demeanor.  I thought he was a hot tamale in "Ball of Fire", too.  I always felt that he and Barbara Stanwyck had a strong chemistry (a lot more than she and Gary Cooper, even though she and Andrews didn't share a lot of screen time), and they would have been great in noirs, as a couple up to no good, or playing off one another.

I haven't seen Fallen Angel yet.  It has been on my to-see list for a long time.

 

I love Dana Andrews movies too.  I've seen a lot of films because he was in them, even in genres where I normally would not see the movies more than once in terms of genre.

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DANA ANDREWS:

 

Dana Andrews made 8 traditional film noir titles as well as some nourish westerns.  Here are favourites of mine:

 

 

 

1. Laura

2. While The City Sleeps

3. Beyond a Reasonable Doubt

4. Where the Sidewalk Ends

5. The Ox-Bow Incident (nourish western)

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DANA ANDREWS:

 

Dana Andrews made 8 traditional film noir titles as well as some nourish westerns.  Here are favourites of mine:

 

 

 

1. Laura

2. While The City Sleeps

3. Beyond a Reasonable Doubt

4. Where the Sidewalk Ends

5. The Ox-Bow Incident (nourish western)

 

Love #4.  I have this on DVD.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I rewatched "Fallen Angel" last night.  I haven't seen it since 2010, and I had put it on my "favorites" list in this thread, and I'm glad that my memory didn't fail me.  Terrific film.  Love the contrast between Linda Darnell and Alice Faye - both in looks (light; dark) and personality (sweet; hardened).  Otto Preminger did a nice visual transition at one point between their two faces that really pointed out the difference, in a single glance.  So many other good things to say about it, too, only I don't have a lot of time right now, lol.

 

And I love, love, love Dana Andrews.  I love his voice and I love his demeanor.  I thought he was a hot tamale in "Ball of Fire", too.  I always felt that he and Barbara Stanwyck had a strong chemistry (a lot more than she and Gary Cooper, even though she and Andrews didn't share a lot of screen time), and they would have been great in noirs, as a couple up to no good, or playing off one another.

 

I have a funny story about "Fallen Angel". I'd always wanted to see it, had heard about it for years but it didn't seem to be available anywhere. (This was before TCM was aired in Canada.) So I rented it from some video rental place. At least, I thought I'd rented it - the Dana Andrews, Linda Darnell film directed by Otto Preminger. But this was back in the days when a video (yup, videotape) would often be rented out in an anonymous box, no details printed on it.  So, I get it home, put it on, and it turns out to be some yucky child porn movie ! Well, not child porn (that would have made me throw up), more a movie about child porn. I turned it off almost as soon as the opening credits were done and I realized what it was.

Didn't get to see the real "Fallen Angel" til I viewed it on TCM, a few years back.

 

Actually, this happened to me twice. Another time, I wanted to see "Kiss Me Deadly". This was before the "Fallen Angel" incident. Again, the video cover was blank, there was just the title on its spine. So I set it up, fondly  believing I was finally going to get to see this famous, late-cycle noir, only to discover it was a porn movie by the same name ! (thank god, no child theme in this one, at least.)

 

I actually did watch that one  - it was less than an hour, as I recall, and it wasn't the kind of nasty hard core stuff I've heard pornography is now. It was an English production (if you can dignify a movie like that as a "production"), and it was kind of funny, in a way. And the main guy in it was supposed to be a private eye detective ! It was obviously making a pathetic allusion to the real "Kiss Me Deadly". 

 

Sorry, I did not mean to derail this great thread by talking about porn movies. I just thought those two stories were kind of funny.

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I have a funny story about "Fallen Angel". I'd always wanted to see it, had heard about it for years but it didn't seem to be available anywhere. (This was before TCM was aired in Canada.) So I rented it from some video rental place. At least, I thought I'd rented it - the Dana Andrews, Linda Darnell film directed by Otto Preminger. But this was back in the days when a video (yup, videotape) would often be rented out in an anonymous box, no details printed on it.  So, I get it home, put it on, and it turns out to be some yucky child porn movie ! Well, not child porn (that would have made me throw up), more a movie about child porn. I turned it off almost as soon as the opening credits were done and I realized what it was.

Didn't get to see the real "Fallen Angel" til I viewed it on TCM, a few years back.

 

Actually, this happened to me twice. Another time, I wanted to see "Kiss Me Deadly". This was before the "Fallen Angel" incident. Again, the video cover was blank, there was just the title on its spine. So I set it up, fondly  believing I was finally going to get to see this famous, late-cycle noir, only to discover it was a porn movie by the same name ! (thank god, no child theme in this one, at least.)

 

I actually did watch that one  - it was less than an hour, as I recall, and it wasn't the kind of nasty hard core stuff I've heard pornography is now. It was an English production (if you can dignify a movie like that as a "production"), and it was kind of funny, in a way. And the main guy in it was supposed to be a private eye detective ! It was obviously making a pathetic allusion to the real "Kiss Me Deadly". 

 

Sorry, I did not mean to derail this great thread by talking about porn movies. I just thought those two stories were kind of funny.

Sure, Miss Wonderly.

 

C'mon, and you also thought "Goldilocks Meets Three Bare Men" would be an animated Disney movie.

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Didn't feel like posting in the Red River thread in General discussions, and since we already have this thread, herE are some favourite Noirish Westerns of mine  in no particular order:

 

High Noon

The Ox-Bow Incident

Bad Day at Black Rock (actually a genre in and of itself)

3:10 To Yuma

The Trap

The Gunfighter

Duel in the Sun

The Naked Spur

Rancho Notorious

The Man From Larramie

Yellow Sky

Winchester '73

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I have a funny story about "Fallen Angel". I'd always wanted to see it, had heard about it for years but it didn't seem to be available anywhere. (This was before TCM was aired in Canada.) So I rented it from some video rental place. At least, I thought I'd rented it - the Dana Andrews, Linda Darnell film directed by Otto Preminger. But this was back in the days when a video (yup, videotape) would often be rented out in an anonymous box, no details printed on it.  So, I get it home, put it on, and it turns out to be some yucky child porn movie ! Well, not child porn (that would have made me throw up), more a movie about child porn. I turned it off almost as soon as the opening credits were done and I realized what it was.

Didn't get to see the real "Fallen Angel" til I viewed it on TCM, a few years back.

 

Actually, this happened to me twice. Another time, I wanted to see "Kiss Me Deadly". This was before the "Fallen Angel" incident. Again, the video cover was blank, there was just the title on its spine. So I set it up, fondly  believing I was finally going to get to see this famous, late-cycle noir, only to discover it was a porn movie by the same name ! (thank god, no child theme in this one, at least.)

 

I actually did watch that one  - it was less than an hour, as I recall, and it wasn't the kind of nasty hard core stuff I've heard pornography is now. It was an English production (if you can dignify a movie like that as a "production"), and it was kind of funny, in a way. And the main guy in it was supposed to be a private eye detective ! It was obviously making a pathetic allusion to the real "Kiss Me Deadly". 

 

Sorry, I did not mean to derail this great thread by talking about porn movies. I just thought those two stories were kind of funny.

 

Yikes...........!!  :o

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Some additional noirish westerns:

 

Pursued - may be the most noirish of all

Blood on the Moon

Day of the Outlaw - Andre de Toth made some excellent noirs, like Crime Wave

Colorado Territory - may not feel quite so noirish, but it's a remake of High Sierra as a western

The Badlanders - a kind of remake of The Asphalt Jungle, though less noirish in feel than some of the others mentioned

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This is a thread to discuss one of the most ambiguous and most diverse film genres--film noir.

 

There are no rules with this thread: lists, discussion about specific films, noir actors, noir directors, photography, lighting, whatever aspect you wish to discuss.

 

My only rule: 

 

If you are going to discuss or reveal a specific plot point about a film, please add a disclaimer so that those who do not wish to have plot points revealed can ignore that aspect of conversation.  I know that I do not like when major plot twists or endings are revealed.  

 

I've quoted speedracer's original post because, other than that silly story about the mix-up with porn movies, I haven't really contributed to this thread yet, even though I love film noir, it's my absolute favourite kind of movie. So,not being sure how to start, I thought the original post might help me to focus a little.

 

I think I'll just list a few of my very favourite noirs, and say why I like them. Like, three.  Otherwise my post will be way too long. The fact that I'm citing only three does not mean there aren't many many others that I love. These are just three that came to my mind at random.

 

Laura: some might argue that it's debatable whether this is even a "noir". The Laura character isn't really  -SPOILER - what you'd call a "femme fatale", most of the scenes are set, not on rainy urban streets (ok, there's a bit of rain, not much) but in rich people's drawing rooms, and there are definitely comic elements to the film, not something traditionally associated with the noir genre (ok, noir style.)

It's fairly early on in the noir time cycle (roughly, 1942 to, say, 1959, if we're talking "classic" noir era), and for that reason alone is interesting, when comparing it to later film noirs.

Anyway, Laura is one hugely entertaining film, what with its colourful characters, twisty plot, and sophisticated dialogue (it's a hoot listening to Vincent Price and Clifton Webb bickering it out, for instance.) And who keeps an enormous portrait of themselves in a central place in their living room? Well, Laura does. I love stuff like that.

 

Pickup on South Street: Sam Fuller was an interesting director who made a number of off-beat noirish movies in the 50s and early 60s. This has to be his best. It's got fabulous noirish settings, what with Richard Widmark living in a decrepit boat in New York harbour and Thelma Ritter arranging  her ties for sale in her sad little inner city apartment. 

Pickup also has one of the sexiest scenes in any film noir (this is really saying something, given how important sex is to this genre), when Widmark (Skip McCoy) caresses Jean Peters' face for what seems like a full minute, then suddenly kisses her.  

This cool little noir is a lot of fun, I really recommend it to all film noir fans. My only complaint is that -SPOILER again - it has a happy ending; I think it would have been more effective if Skip had been killed in the end by the Commie he was fighting.  But then, we've already had one really moving death scene in the film, maybe Fuller felt another one would be too much.

 

Act of Violence: How can you go wrong with the great Robert Ryan and the almost as great Van Heflin? This is an under-rated noir about obsession, guilt, secrets, and revenge. All classic noir themes. It's also about how a seemingly normal happy family can have a dark past hovering just under the surface of this happiness.

And visually, you can't beat it for that deliciously noirish look I love so much. There's a scene filmed in San Francisco in which the main character runs through its rain slicked hills and streets, along winding urban stairways and abandoned rail yards and subway tunnels. Director Fred Zinnemann did not make many noirs, but he sure hit the ball out of the park  with this one.

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I have a funny story about "Fallen Angel". I'd always wanted to see it, had heard about it for years but it didn't seem to be available anywhere. (This was before TCM was aired in Canada.) So I rented it from some video rental place. At least, I thought I'd rented it - the Dana Andrews, Linda Darnell film directed by Otto Preminger. But this was back in the days when a video (yup, videotape) would often be rented out in an anonymous box, no details printed on it.  So, I get it home, put it on, and it turns out to be some yucky child porn movie ! Well, not child porn (that would have made me throw up), more a movie about child porn. I turned it off almost as soon as the opening credits were done and I realized what it was.

Didn't get to see the real "Fallen Angel" til I viewed it on TCM, a few years back.

 

Actually, this happened to me twice. Another time, I wanted to see "Kiss Me Deadly". This was before the "Fallen Angel" incident. Again, the video cover was blank, there was just the title on its spine. So I set it up, fondly  believing I was finally going to get to see this famous, late-cycle noir, only to discover it was a porn movie by the same name ! (thank god, no child theme in this one, at least.)

 

I actually did watch that one  - it was less than an hour, as I recall, and it wasn't the kind of nasty hard core stuff I've heard pornography is now. It was an English production (if you can dignify a movie like that as a "production"), and it was kind of funny, in a way. And the main guy in it was supposed to be a private eye detective ! It was obviously making a pathetic allusion to the real "Kiss Me Deadly". 

 

Sorry, I did not mean to derail this great thread by talking about porn movies. I just thought those two stories were kind of funny.

This is a hilarious, if unfortunate story. What a disappointment both times, excited about films you're looking forward to seeing.....and that happens (twice!). Something similar happened to me when I was young, abou 13 or so. I remember I feigned illness one day to stay home from school, because A LETTER TO THREE WIVES was going to be shown on Ben Hunter's Matinee, and I wanted to see it for Linda Darnell. .Well, some cheesy Butch Jenkins film.was shown, to my dismay. After it was over, host Ben Hunter could not be more apologetic, starting off with something like, "Boy, that was some turkey!" I'm sure the station got plenty of phone calls to complain.

 

At 13, I think I would've welcomed a mix-up with a porn movie lol.

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This is a hilarious, if unfortunate story. What a disappointment both times, excited about films you're looking forward to seeing.....and that happens (twice!). Something similar happened to me when I was young, abou 13 or so. I remember I feigned illness one day to stay home from school, because A LETTER TO THREE WIVES was going to be shown on Ben Hunter's Matinee, and I wanted to see it for Linda Darnell. .Well, some cheesy Butch Jenkins film.was shown, to my dismay. After it was over, host Ben Hunter could not be more apologetic, starting off with something like, "Boy, that was some turkey!" I'm sure the station got plenty of phone calls to complain.

 

At 13, I think I would've welcomed a mix-up with a porn movie lol.

 

eb8b4ad790934b6ba2d565661b49ed5d.jpg

 

Whadda ya mean, "cheesy"? Hey, I coulda been in 

that "letter" movie if I'd wanted, but I wuz busy making

"Big City".  Still, wouldna minded meeting that dish,

Linda Darnell.

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On a totally separate note = I always think of film noir as a type of 50's movie in B&W where the protagonist isn't a good guy and the themes are pretty dark.

Just my non-educated comment:

I think Kubrick's "Barry Lyndon" is a kind of a film noir made in the 70s and in color.  I have seen it a number of times and enjoy the "art" of the film but find the story depressing and a bit uncomfortable to watch.  The same but to a lesser degree with "The Duelists".

Just wonder how you knowledgeable film fans feel about this and if there are other 70's or later films that can be considered film noir.

Thanks.

 

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On a totally separate note = I always think of film noir as a type of 50's movie in B&W where the protagonist isn't a good guy and the themes are pretty dark.

Just my non-educated comment:

I think Kubrick's "Barry Lyndon" is a kind of a film noir made in the 70s and in color.  I have seen it a number of times and enjoy the "art" of the film but find the story depressing and a bit uncomfortable to watch.  The same but to a lesser degree with "The Duelists".

Just wonder how you knowledgeable film fans feel about this and if there are other 70's or later films that can be considered film noir.

Thanks.

 

Under the Summer of Darkness sub-forum there is a thread about neo-noir films.     One of the basic topics is when did the 'classic' film noir era end and when did the neo-noir era start.    Various opinions about this   (I use 1959 as the end of the classic noir era).

 

Anyhow a lot of folks post there that really know their stuff as it relates to noir and neo-noir films.

 

e.g. going on now is a discussion of Chinatown,   one of the most famous neo-noir films released in 1974 and if the Dunaway character is a femme fatale or not.       

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Under the Summer of Darkness sub-forum there is a thread about neo-noir films.     One of the basic topics is when did the 'classic' film noir era end and when did the neo-noir era start.    Various opinions about this   (I use 1959 as the end of the classic noir era).

 

Anyhow a lot of folks post there that really know their stuff as it relates to noir and neo-noir films.

 

e.g. going on now is a discussion of Chinatown,   one of the most famous neo-noir films released in 1974 and if the Dunaway character is a femme fatale or not.       

Thanks you two for getting this thread back on topic.

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Under the Summer of Darkness sub-forum there is a thread about neo-noir films.     One of the basic topics is when did the 'classic' film noir era end and when did the neo-noir era start.    Various opinions about this   (I use 1959 as the end of the classic noir era).

 

Anyhow a lot of folks post there that really know their stuff as it relates to noir and neo-noir films.

 

e.g. going on now is a discussion of Chinatown,   one of the most famous neo-noir films released in 1974 and if the Dunaway character is a femme fatale or not.       

 

jjg, thanks for the comments and help.

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I have a funny story about "Fallen Angel". I'd always wanted to see it, had heard about it for years but it didn't seem to be available anywhere. (This was before TCM was aired in Canada.) So I rented it from some video rental place. At least, I thought I'd rented it - the Dana Andrews, Linda Darnell film directed by Otto Preminger. But this was back in the days when a video (yup, videotape) would often be rented out in an anonymous box, no details printed on it.  So, I get it home, put it on, and it turns out to be some yucky child porn movie ! Well, not child porn (that would have made me throw up), more a movie about child porn. I turned it off almost as soon as the opening credits were done and I realized what it was.

Didn't get to see the real "Fallen Angel" til I viewed it on TCM, a few years back.

 

Actually, this happened to me twice. Another time, I wanted to see "Kiss Me Deadly". This was before the "Fallen Angel" incident. Again, the video cover was blank, there was just the title on its spine. So I set it up, fondly  believing I was finally going to get to see this famous, late-cycle noir, only to discover it was a porn movie by the same name ! (thank god, no child theme in this one, at least.)

 

I actually did watch that one  - it was less than an hour, as I recall, and it wasn't the kind of nasty hard core stuff I've heard pornography is now. It was an English production (if you can dignify a movie like that as a "production"), and it was kind of funny, in a way. And the main guy in it was supposed to be a private eye detective ! It was obviously making a pathetic allusion to the real "Kiss Me Deadly". 

 

Sorry, I did not mean to derail this great thread by talking about porn movies. I just thought those two stories were kind of funny.

Misswonderly, your story got me thinking. With FALLEN ANGEL and KISS ME DEADLY as porn titles, and the tendency to shoehorn films of all genres into Film.Noir, wouldn't it be something if there was a.body of films falling into a Porn Noir designation. It would put a new spin into Femmes Fatales and Private ****.....lol.

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On a totally separate note = I always think of film noir as a type of 50's movie in B&W where the protagonist isn't a good guy and the themes are pretty dark.

Just my non-educated comment:

I think Kubrick's "Barry Lyndon" is a kind of a film noir made in the 70s and in color.  I have seen it a number of times and enjoy the "art" of the film but find the story depressing and a bit uncomfortable to watch.  The same but to a lesser degree with "The Duelists".

Just wonder how you knowledgeable film fans feel about this and if there are other 70's or later films that can be considered film noir.

Thanks.

 

Nope. No way, no matter how far you try to stretch it, is "Barry Lyndon" a noir. It's not a question of whether it's a "latter day " or "neo-noir", (lots of movies made after 1960 can be called "noirs"), it's not about its being a colour film (quite a few film noirs are in colour); there are many films made in the 70s and in colour that could be regarded as noirs, but Barry Lyndon ?? Nah.

 

I have to be honest here: I hated "Barry Lyndon". But not because it was "depressing and a bit uncomfortable to watch". It was boring; it was all about what it looked like. Also, true to its literary source (the 19th century novel by William Thackery), it spans years. One thing I like about film noir movies is their brevity: they get in, tell their story, and get out. Short and sweet.

There's no such thing as a film noir epic, it's a contradiction in terms. And "Barry Lyndon", at a lumbering 187 minutes, is definitely an "epic".

 

I'm no expert, don't want to come across as someone who comes here and slaps your wrist or anything. But I love film noir, I discovered it many years ago, long before most people had even heard the term, and have continued to explore it ever since. And one thing I've noticed is this tendency, recently, for people to want to call almost anything that isn't entirely upbeat a "noir". "Film Noir" seems to have become this amorphous concept that can be applied to any movie with a hint of a dark theme.

 

The person who started this thread (thanks, speedracer) understands the complexity around defining film noir; she refers to it, in her original post, as:

 

"...one of the most ambiguous and most diverse film genres--film noir."

 

And it is that, absolutely. But I think, precisely because of its "ambiguous and diverse nature", a lot of people want to extend its definition to just about anything at all that isn't, say, a musical !

There are many movies that are depressing or have a "dark" theme that are not film noir.

 

Sorry if all this comes across as a huge rant. I'll just add one other comment about DJBeacon's post, and then I'll leave it. He said he thinks of noir as a genre having "a protagonist who isn't a good guy".

This is a major misunderstanding about film noir. A lot of people seem to think noir protagonists are "bad", or at least, "not good guys". But it's one of the central aspects of noir that its main characters are neither "good" nor "bad", but like most of us, somewhere in between. The majority of noir protagonists are NOT villains; they're ordinary guys who find themselves falling into a situation over which they have little control, usually as a result of some kind of weakness - they're in debt, something they did in the past has caught up with them, or (most famously) they're in sexual thrall to a woman who is using them. They fall into a vortex of self-doubt, crime, obsession....    They are average people (usually men ) who are caught in exceptional circumstances. I almost always like, or at least care about, these characters and what's going to happen to them.

 

The character of Barry Lyndon, on the other hand, is just a horrid self-centred guy, for whom I have no interest or empathy.

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I hardly think the detailed descriptions I gave a few posts back of three classic noirs was "off topic". We are allowed to joke around here, you know.

I`m not talking about that post. And sorry, but I had a very scary first date with someone recently who showed me what I was expecting to a romantic comedy and it was a porn movie.  I didn`t realize till the movie started  what was happening, but it was just another example of how a lot of men I know think women with any type of disability  (I have slight cerebral palsy in my right side) should be greatful because they are being shown any attention at all. 

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