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well here it is 4:00 a.m. and the wicked hand of insomnia has hit with a sledge hammer. I've been in bed trying to sleep since 12:30, finally gave up and watched 'the Notebook' on Starz. I finally figured out what's been wrong with my thinking the past couple of days (other than the norm, that is). I LIKE, LOVE, ADORE Sci-Fi, I Do Not Like Horror movies. I can easily handle giant ants, locusts, gorillas and martians tearing up the countryside and cities. Its the blood-soaked bodies, missing limbs, and grotesque faces and forms of horror that I can live without. Even the original 'the Thing' was campy in its way. My problem is the visual part of today's horror films. The early sci-fi evolved into these Halloweens, and Elm Streets. We still have sci-fi, I'm a faithful watcher of Stargate every week, and am proud of the fact that I've never missed an episode. I even liked the first three Star Wars, but the newer ones are too technical for my liking. I also watched Star Trek and ALL of its spin-offs. I enjoyed 'War of the Worlds' (both old and new), 'Independence Day', 'Frequency' (my favorite) and most other sci-fi. I swore I would not say anything else about Rob Zombie, so I won't, except the imdb bio said he collaborated with both Ozbourne and Cooper on some of his videos, and story lines for movies.


So, on the nights that the gloom and doom boys are on I'll have to be happy with HBO and Starz. I only wish the History channel was on all night, because just like a pendulum, I swing from history to the future with sci-fi.



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One thing I forgot, its unnerving when on a sunny Sunday afternoon, I stop for a red light , listening to a great rendition of Garth Brooks' 'The Dance' and some clown pulls up next to me with all 18 speakers blaring "slap the b**ch, and knock her down". Unfortunately its the likes of Cooper and Osbourne who led the way for these freaks, and I don't appreciate my six year old grand-daughter saying 'Grandma, did you hear that"? Some control and discipline need to be taken in hand here. I don't see any 'value' in examining new or old horror movies, there is nothing there to discuss intelligently, except how beautifully the camera caught the blood dripping gracefully into the dirt and spreading like an oil slick, while the sky darkens, and the dulcet tones of a wolf, howls delicately in the background amid the rosy tones of bats screeching in the nearby caves.



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Fans of Garth Brooks who complain about others' musical taste are folks living in glass houses.


Though I concur that the lack of consideration evidenced in people who blare music from their cars is a sorry state of affairs in America (e.g. when some country boy hereabouts pulls up with whining tinny c&w 'music' blaring out of his diesel-spewing pickup). But then when so many arrogantly proclaim freedom as their own personal right, what can one expect? Have never once experienced such noise pollution from an individual's car in my travels to Canada or abroad, so go figure.


The output capability of car stereos should be regulated at the industry level, and sub-woofers in car's should never have been permitted by law to be availaible to consumers.

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You're right about most of what you say, however, not being a fan of Garth Brooks, I used his SONG as an example, I like the Dance and The River, those are two beautiful lyrics and music. My taste runs to ballads by George Strait of whom I have 12 CD's. Not all country folk drive beat up trucks and certainly not in the city. Having been born and raised in the heart of Chicago, I found comfort in country music when I was a teenager back in the 50's, and have never become disillusioned by it. My friends teased me as some of these younger board members say their friends tease them, but nobody ever heard George Strait blaring from my car, I assure you.


And Sam, . . . my remarks were aimed at Rob Zombie, and an unknown ignoramus who abused his radio speakers, not a member of this board. This is how the feuds get started, if you want to pick me apart because of my musical tastes, do it on the Private Messages, if its a personal thing, you have that right, but let's not embarrass our fellow posters with our petty differences.



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Wow, I'm actually writing in response to a Rob Zombie forum - not exactly what I had envisioned for today.

To start: Rob Zombie is a heavy metal rock icon (anyone 12 - 25 will know him) and he's a very shrewd business man. He is also credited as a well informed "enthusiast" of classic films, with special insight into the history of horror. But that aside, he is most probably being invited into the spotlight at TCM to bring in the younguns! And I'm all for it - even though I hate his music. Halloween is an excellent time to get new people interested in classic film - I was loving F.W. Murnau, Karloff and Lon Chaney, Sr. long before I knew about Billy Wilder, Montgomery Clift, or Lubitsch (and now I love them all).


Zombie is the director of "House of 1000 Corpses" (2003) and "The Devil's Rejects" (2005). Both films (not exactly to my taste) were quite well done and much more cinematic than recent "slasher flix" I've seen. They are artfully made and feature very good performances by Karen Black, Michael J. Pollard, William Forsythe, Geoffrey Lewis, Bill Moseley (as Otis B. Driftwood) and Sid Haig (as Capt. Spaulding!). He will also be directing a reworking/remake of John Carpenter's "Halloween" films (a series in dire need of fresh blood - and I'm sure Mr. Zombie will be supplying buckets full).


I'm sure he's appearing as GUEST PROGRAMMER simply because he loves movies and he carries a fan base not currently regularly watching TCM.

His list is pretty exciting:



Friday, October 13

2:00 AM Plan 9 from Outer Space (?59)

3:30 AM Bride of the Monster (?55)


Friday, October 20

2:00 AM Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill! (?65)

3:30 AM Mudhoney (?65)


Friday, October 27

2:00 AM Night of the Living Dead (?68)

3:45 AM The Crazies (?73)


Friday, November 3

2:00 AM Sisters (?73)


Friday, November 10

2:00 AM Electra Glide in Blue (?73)


Friday, November 17

2:00 AM Freaks (?32)

3:15 AM Mark of the Vampire (?35)


Friday, November 24

2:00 AM The Sadist (?63)

3:45 AM Wild Guitar (?62)


Friday, December 1

2:00 AM The Conqueror Worm (?68)


Friday, December 8

2:00 AM The Honeymoon Killers (?70)


Friday, December 15

2:00 AM Deranged (?74)


Friday, December 22

2:00 AM West of Zanzibar (?28)

3:45 AM Unholy Three (?25)


Friday, December 29

2:00 AM Madhouse (?74)

3:45 AM The Last Man on Earth (?64)

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I can't tell if you admire him or not. But I question a couple of your remarks, first being, anyone between ages 12 - 25, 12 is too young for his type of music or video, and 25 is too old. By 25 I would hope a person has put aside childish things and started thinking about a career, family, and future. As someone else said, the 'younguns' may watch his crap, but as soon as a REAL CLASSIC movie comes on, the channel will be changed. That's how today's kids think. I showed my grand son both versions of 'The Alamo' and he didn't like the J. Wayne one because "there wasn't enough blood in it, they didn't show Jim Bowie getting killed". Today's kids don't know how to use their imaginations.


Secondly, I looked up some of the movies listed, and some of them aren't listed on imdb. I saw 'the Night of the Living Dead', in the theater, and there is nothing, absolutely nothing redeeming about that film. I don't care about what kind of lighting they used, or sets, or what acting there is in it. It's a piece of garbage from beginning to end. And I can't wait to see three STRIPPERS on a torture and killing rampage in 'Faster Pussycat, Kill, Kill', that should put the cherry on top of my sundae. Oh, I'll watch it, just to see how it compares to the original 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers'.


Finally, there was a big difference in horror movies made before 1960, they were not as stark or visual. I don't mind being scared and getting up to make sure my doors and windows are locked, but watching a daily news program is enough realism for me.



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Actually, when I was young (I'm talking about 12-14), White Zombie was a pretty popular band. They used to play them on MTV all the time. I think with the popularity of Beavis and Butthead (around 1994 or so), White Zombie (along with your Pearl Jam's and Nirvana's) was the perfect band for my age group. I never was a big fan, but I had friends who thought they rocked. And besides, kids these days are introducted to violence, sex and foul language at a much, much earlier age, so it's pretty useless to shield them from the stuff, unless you want to keep them in a glass house. Just look at your basic network channels and see the crap they have on. Desperate Housewives is filled with sex! CSI shows people how to drill holes into dead people's brains! And I choose to watch neither. TCM showing horror movies from the late 60's/early 70's seems pretty tame by comparison, especially since they're being shown on a Friday night/Sat. morning at 2 am!


Also, I'm in my late 20's myself, and I know plenty of people who aren't settled down yet, still living in apartments with roommates, unmarried, who don't want kids or who don't want to get married. Some are still going to school for their master's degrees, but still have time for "childish" things like music. Everyone needs mindless diversions, you know. At least I know I do. Not all 25 year olds are living the white picket fantasy that you seem to think all 25 year olds should adhere to. I guess I kinda take offense at your post, lumping everyone in the same kind of mindset because I do fall into that age bracket and while I do think about my future, I'm also not ready to settle down into a boring, old lady lifestyle yet.


I'm also on a lot of classic movie lists and the majority of the posters on there are in their teens! They love Laurence Olivier and Gene Kelly (to just name two), as well as the styles and music of classic eras. I feel like an old **** compared to them. So please don't assume kids don't want to see a "real" classic movie just because they're young! Sure, there will be kids who find them boring, but there are kids who are open minded.


I saw the list of movies oobleckboy posted a few days ago and was really excited by the choices Zombie picked. To be honest, I'm not a big fan of blood and gore, so I probably won't be watching those (I said it before, but "Sisters" freaked me out), but I have the choice of not watching them, sleeping, going out or watching something I taped or bought. I like the fact that he chose "The Honeymoon Killers" since it's being remade into "Lonely Hearts" (with Travolta, the guy from the Sopranos and Selma Hayek.) Why not show the original version, before Hollywood spits out another piece of badly remade modern junk? He's also showing a lot of Vincent Price movies in December and to my knowledge, Mr. Price IS classic. It's not like Zombie is showing Freddy Kruger movies or "Snakes on a Plane".


Plus, it's not like he's taking over the schedule. They're giving him one night a week. I've seen the rest of the monthly schedules for October and November and they're filled with a lot of great classic movies that I can't wait to see.

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I wrote a fairly long response to you last night, but lost it in a computer glitch. Blargh.


I sympathize with the fact that you don't really want to watch modern horror flicks, even if I don't share your view. And as you've pointed out, there are other channels to watch while that stuff is on.


However, I do think that Zombie's show is fully in line with TCM's mission, which is to make classic film available. "Faster Pussycat Kill Kill" is only available in the US on an out of print VHS tape which sells for around $50 on Amazon and eBay, not exactly affordable. I salute TCM for making this film available in the same way that they show forgotten pre-codes.


There's often a fine line between art and trash. "Last House on the Left" is a schlock remake of Bergman's "The Virgin Spring," and while I would agree that the latter is far and away the better film, it's not like "Last House" has no redeeming qualities.


I would argue that all film deserves to be preserved and made available. I'm offended by the blackface routine in "Babes in Arms" and the racism of "Birth of a Nation," but they need to be seen. Even the worst film says something about its time and place and the culture in which it was made.


Rick Prelinger has devoted his life to preserving educational and industrial films that were once considered completely disposable. He also does his best to make them available to the public. These were once thought to have no value, now they are considered an important record of the past. In the early days of sound film, many silents were considered obsolete and disposable, and now our record of this critical time in film history has many gaps. Even though you may see no redeeming value in these movies doesn't mean that none exists.


I'm looking forward to Zombie's show. He's extremely knowledgable about horror film history, and seems to be making excellent choices for TCM Underground. They are not to everyone's taste, but definitely deserve to be seen.

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Jon Parker:


I too, just wrote a lengthy reply to sugarpuss trying to explain my feeling, which are simply, I'm worried about my grandchildrens' future and what kind of world they will live in. I think when two people try to post at the same time, one gets lost, it's happened before when even a short post gets lost if there is another posting coming up at the same time.


For now as stated earlier, I will no longer talk about Rob Zombie, he's just not worth it.





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>I saw 'the Night of the Living Dead', in the theater, and there is nothing, absolutely nothing redeeming about that film.


Movies and music (all art for that matter) are thankfully perceived objectively. People will always disagree on what they like and dislike, that's a given, but how we discuss out differences is the key. I'm interested in discussing films, not dismissing them. I'm not trying to tell you (or anyone) they are wrong in their tastes, so don't do it to me.


>as soon as a REAL CLASSIC movie comes on...


Yipes! Real Classics? Is there are limited criteria involved here? Once again, we're all coming into this with differences and commonalities. 'Night of the Living Dead' is on my list of Classic films, but not yours, ok. You've got movies you love that I'm sure I won't put on my list.


>12 is too young for his type of music or video, and 25 is too old.


My mother was grounded for mentioning the name "Elvis" in her parents house in 1955. She was to young for THAT type of "sexually degrading" music. And in the 1920's Bix Beiderbecke was kicked out of clubs for playing "non-standard" notes. 'Dracula (1931),' 'The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1923)' and other classic horror was banned in many cities due to it's "deviant display of the grotesque."


I try to remember this as I wince at my nephew's music and ask what he likes about it. Thanks to him I've bought my first CDs recorded after 1985.

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[nobr]Actually, there is much western music I dearly enjoy listening too, but none of it is modern country (now modern bluegrass on the other hand...). [/nobr]


Like most modern music, that in the country category is a pale comparison to preceeding candidates, in my estimation.


Some of the Western music performers that I feature are: The Sons Of The Pioneers, Hank Williams (though - and here's a good example of the contrast I speak of - Williams Jr. is lousy in my estimation), Buck Owens, Tex Ritter, all Western Swing, Gene Autry, John Denver, Marty Robbins, Patsy Cline, Johnny Cash et cetera.


About the only decent album of western music, recently released, that I've heard is k.d. lang's Shadowland.


And, actually, I loathe Heavy Metal (CheeseZombie and any other 'OzFest' candidate included) and most RAP. And I have no use for misogyny wherever it manifests.


//And Sam, . . . my remarks were aimed at Rob Zombie, and an unknown ignoramus who abused his radio speakers, not a member of this board. This is how the feuds get started, if you want to pick me apart because of my musical tastes, do it on the Private Messages, if its a personal thing, you have that right, but let's not embarrass our fellow posters with our petty differences.//

[nobr]Oh bru-ther.eck09.gif[/nobr]

Thanks for explaining to me how I should post, Emily.


I was not picking you apart; my point was to make transparent and thereby invalidate the subjectivity apparent in your comparison and your subsequent argument on the matter.


Look, if you find disagreeable a reply of mine expressing something I find disagreeable, well I guess you can chalk it up to the reciprocity of debate.


In the meantime, I shall post whatever I wish and in whatever manner I wish.


[nobr]If you regard it as spam then report to the webmasterannounce-16x16.gif and let her/him be the judge.[/nobr]


[nobr]Otherwise, as the great Durante might have said: blow it out your kazoo.fest42.gif[/nobr]







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Thank you NortBanba, you said what I wanted to say.




If you recall, I agreed with your opinions, but another poster and I had been having a discussion on the connection between Zombie, Osbourne, and Cooper and I used a G. Brooks song to prove a point. You came in with "fans of Garth Brooks who complain about others musical tastes are folks living in glass houses", followed by something about country boy, diesel whining C&B 'music' blaring, which were a direct slap in my face. And again tonight you were personally derogatory with your "how I should post, Emily". When I agree, I say so, if I disagree, I give reasons why I disagree. I never embarrass a poster, and I never say they are wrong. As you say, to each his own, but that does not allow for personal affronts.


If I said something to offend you previously, I apologize for that, but I dislike being ridiculed on a public board.



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//I'm worried about my grandchildrens' future and what kind of world they will live in.//


I can understand what you mean by that, Anne. Even now, I look around at the world and try to remember it from when I was a kid. Speaking on a non-classic movie topic, when I was a kid, you could leave your screen door open until late at night (summer months, of course). Now? That's a nice way to invite robbers into your house. You might as well put a "Steal Our Stuff!" sign on the front lawn.


This influence extends into pop culture and also affects TCM as well. I know there's been disagreements on the new "modern" promos they've been showing, but if you look at the schedule, at heart, TCM remains true to the old black and whites they've always shown. I had mild hesitations about Zombie joining the lineup as well, but honestly, I don't think the average teenager wants to watch old Vincent Price horror movies. A teenage boy might want to watch the Russ Meyer movies for, uh, certain reasons (cough), but when there's the availbility of what's on the Cinemax/Showtime channels at night, I don't think they'd be that interested in waiting to see the "good" stuff on TCM when they can have it almost instantly.


I do respect your opinion on what you worry about, but rest assured there are many young people and even people in my age bracket who love "real" classic films and consider TCM their holy grail. I know I do. There will always be classic movie fans. Always! And like a poster said before, I'd rather see some of the stuff that Zombie is showing, than a Tom Cruise movie (shudder) from the 90's any time.

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I'm a newly registered user to the forum, but a VERY long time viewer of this great station...


Anyway, I have noticed one thing about the scheduled movies...


What happened to Dementia 13??


It's the one film that upon the initial promotion of Rob Zombie getting his own "show" on TMC that I definitely wanted to watch... Yet I find that it was somehow eliminated from the schedule?


Which spawns another question, did Rob Zombie have control over the movies or was he given a list and instructions to "pick from this"?


Having been a fan of his work dating back to about the same time sugarpuss had mentioned, I am pretty excited over his addition to the TMC lineup and for the films he has chosen to present as I have not seen a couple of them (especially not Dementia 13!).



Also as for all you people who started this 6 page thread saying that you don't know who Rob Zombie is and then on the last page saying that he isn't even worth talking about when you know nothing about this person... There's not harm in giving this broadcast a chance. That's just a harsh thing to say.



Anyway, I have to get back to my picket fence dreams now... (:


See you around.

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[nobr]You're still posting with the return address of a glass house.[/nobr]


You're trying to sound noble while at-the-same-time lacing your attempts at nobility with the very things you accuse and condemn me for doing - therefore you are not noble but hypocritical, truth be told.


You say that if you disagree, you do so and you say why.

So do I; you just don't like it when, in doing so, I contest your sensibilities.


You say you agree with the concept of tolerance (i.e. "to each his own"), but then accuse me of effrontery after prefacing your entire post with an appreciation for another post which was posted solely to call me (or Durante - it's not clear which) an ****, which, in your approval of it (indeed...moreover saying that it took the words out of your mouth), indicates that you are seeking to shame me (i.e. "embarass a poster") by confirming that I am an ****.

Doesn't that sort of smack of effrontery - calling me an **** even if by proxy?

I didn't call you a derogatory name.

I said that if you sought to shame me for my viewpoints then you could "blow it out your kazoo," which is a pretty tame vernacular by my estimation - far more tame than actually calling me, outright, an ****, which you clearly did by proxy.


There is no getting around that - you called me an **** by proxy.

So who of us is more truly guilty of effrontery?


You try and come across like you are a victim of effrontery for having someone challenge your comments (not you - your comments), but you do so in a manner that is sanctimonious and meant to garner sympathy.


That is why I said in response to your previous attempts to invalidate, that I expressed utter disagreement with you and I proceeded to illustrate why.


Finally . . .

If you so dislike being "ridiculed on a public board" (as you put it), then perhaps you should reconsider this sort of venue for proclaiming your pov's if you can't tolerate disagreement, for (case-in-point) you open your self up for dispute whether you like it or not.

And if you choose to perceive dispute as ridicule, well then . . .









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Again I'll respond with a defense. Another poster and I were discussing todays, music and lyrics and I felt the like of Osbourn and Cooper aided in the advent of Raps' vicious and filthy lyrics. I added a true life instance to prove my point.


It was then that you responded with the 'glass house' remark, making it personal. You did not have to open with that line, it was insulting to my intelligence.


Next you came back AGAIN with the Emily Post comment. I appreciated NortBanba's defense of me. I run into a lot of rude and ignorant people and no longer have a gentleman witrh me to say "You owe the LADY an apology", so it was nice for a change. Happily that was my generations' custom.


Also, at the end of that post, I apologized to YOU for offending YOU, but I see you prefer to continue picking at my character rather than admitting you MIGHT have been wrong.


Now you 'contest' my sensibilities - Well, regarding your printing of the Durante line, all I can say is "if it acts like a duck, sounds like a duck . . .


I never 'sought to shame you' for your viewpoints, you did that yourself by ridiculing my musical taste. I can "tolerate disagreement" but I cannot tolerate being insulted.


I apologize to all members of this board, for all that has been printed herein, but since Sam decided to make this public beyond my request, I decided to go along with him, however, he is not going to kick me off these boards, unless some of the rest of you wish it to be so, you can let me know here, or by P/M. Again I apologise to all of you.



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Zombie is a cool kat. I am into his music and his films. I know he is a huge film fan and has great appreciation of the classics. My fear is that TCM is bringing him on board so that the younger generation can relate. You can't force classics on people, no matter how they are presented or gift wrapped. Young ones today, need pop icons, extreme stunts, and hip music, to inhibit any form of interest in anything it seems like. I'm 31, and I had to acquire my appreciation for older films. You have to be interested in the days of yesteryear, the lifestyles, the actors/actresses, and the film styles, to appreciate older movies. There is an over abundance of stimulation that grounds the younger generation in the here and now. There's no reason for them to have any interest in the past. TCM, you have plenty of viewers who appreciate the oldies, please don't change to corral in younger viewers. The rise and fall of AMC comes to my mind.


Whats next.....Justin Timberlake hosting a civil war documentary on the History Channel?


Keep it real TCM.

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> Zombie is a cool kat. I am into his music and his films. I know he is a huge film fan and has great appreciation of the classics. My fear is that TCM is bringing him on board so that the younger generation can relate. You can't force classics on people, no matter how they are presented or gift wrapped. Young ones today, need pop icons, extreme stunts, and hip music, to inhibit any form of interest in anything it seems like. I'm 31, and I had to acquire my appreciation for older films. You have to be interested in the days of yesteryear, the lifestyles, the actors/actresses, and the film styles, to appreciate older movies.


Howdy dlonz, nice post. I see you're a new poster, I like your list of Fave Film Noir (I'm a big fan of They Drive by Night, also). It's good to see a new voice on the forums, so I hope you won't mind me disagreeing on a few points.


I think young ones from all points of history (not just today) are searching for 'current', 'new', and 'young' things to validate themselves (or generation). And pervious generations look at them and think, "what silly little idiots, MY generation has already found what's REALLY cool." It's a cycle that I really appreciate with much amusement. You find it in Family comedies since silents (and literature before that). The WALTZ was once considered extremely hip and outraged the older generation; as has Bing Crosby, Beethoven, matching 2 piece suits, cocoa, and I'm certain the WHEEL was a subject of generational discord.


What is most exciting is the inevitable exceptions to the rule. When an interest outside of one's own world happens - a connection across time. For my 16 yr old nephew it's his love of Led Zeppelin and 50's SciFi; my niece loves Black & White Mickey Mouse shorts and 30's Hawaiian music. Wow. For me it was 20's & 30's Horror. My Japanese cousin is crazy for all things Italian and is as knowledgeable in Italian Neo-Realism as my old film professors.


The exceptions runs the other way, also. I've been listening to recent pop (a surprise for this 47 yr old fuddie). My auntie (72) is nuts about Wes Anderson films (Rushmore is a recent favorite).


And that's what I like about Rob Zombie hosting the Underground Fest. on TCM. Early Horror, Grindhouse Flicks, and Indie "baddies" are not the typical connection to his "modern" horror films, but anyone who sees them will find the references and influences from a rich love of films long before his generation. Zombie is as much a "Classic Film" lover as anyone on this forum.


And more generally to other posts on this topic:

I don't think Rob Zombie's appearance on TCM (from 2am-5am) is a harbinger of TCM trying to get "HIP". I seriously doubt we'll see Robert Osborne sporting a backwards Kangol cap saying, "Yo homes, we've got Lana Turner all day . . . to the Max."

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I swore not to talk about Rob Zombie again, so I won't but there is one thing I want to say:


I think young ones from all points of history (not just today) are searching

for 'current', 'new', and 'young' things to validate themselves (or generation).


In this quote you are right, and the best way kids have of fighting 'the establishment' is in their music. I wore cotton in my ears thru heavy metal, punk rock, and all the other stuff my kids listened to, that was the advantage of starting to have kids at the age of 17, thru 21, I remembered what it was like to be a teenager that your parents couldn't understand. But now with my grandkids, it's a different story, 'metal' and 'punk' were 'noisy' but at least still decent. Rap is my downfall with teens, not because I'm older, but because (1.) it has the same monotonous canned 'beat' in the background and (2.) THE LYRICS!!! , they think nothing of using words like b**ch, F**k, and the big "C". I don't care if these words supposedly have different meanings today as the grand-kids claim. We made up our OWN words - funky, for my kids, daddy-o, for my generation, skiddo, for my parents and so on back. We didn't take universally unacceptable words and dare people to complain, which is EXACTLY what goes on in today's 'music'. Tell me I'm wrong!



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