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I agree about the negativity on the boards lately. However, I have started several threads about movies, stars, movie construction etc. but nobody wants to answer or input ideas, all anybody seems to want to do is talk about Zombie and Friday nights. I have found other things to watch or do on the last two Friday nights, and will continue to do so as long as he is on because horror is not my cup of tea. So, I have solved that problem for myself.

 

As to satellite questions, I asked a lot and was treated like a fool because I didn't understand and asked for clarification. "The only dumb question is the one that isn't asked." I don't know who said that, but he was right. I was under a few misconceptions, some were straightened out, but many remain, but rather than put myself up to ridicule again, I'll simply stop asking.

 

Kathleen:

 

No, I do not expect everyone to look like suburban housewives, or buy their clothes at LLBean, (I've never even been in one of their stores). But I do dislike little 11 year old girls walking around in clothes that hookers of the 50's wore. e.g. in the 80's my daughter was going to a Halloween party and decided to dress like a hooker, after she was done, she looked at herself in the mirror and said, "Mom, this is how EVERYONE dresses normally to go clubbing, and she was right! Do you really enjoy seeing your daughter or niece showing off everything they own to strange men on the street? Why do you thing date rape is so prevalent nowadays? Guys are getting messages that aren't really there.

 

I never complained about the 70's and 80's movies except to say I was surprised at TCM for veering off the studio type movies. When I said TCM was making a change, I was told I was wrong, but 3 years ago TCM never showed Ed Wood, Russ Meyer, or invited a Rob Zombie type on the channel. They showed some wierd movies, but they were buried at 3:00 a.m. with little or no advertising. Now it's all over the channel and advertised during hours that are not appropriate to see some of the scenes shown. Maybe I AM a prude, but this stuff was never prompted 3 years ago. I've said I change the channel on Friday night, so leave me alone and let me change, but while I'm sitting at 11:30a.m. seeing the end of Only Angels have Wings, and waiting for The Lady from Shanghai, why must I be 'treated' to the Friday Night Horror ad? TCM has scheduled great movies during the day which we 'Golden Age classic fans' prefer, and still watch. Why can't they at least save the horror commercials for nighttime, when we have gone to other channels to watch other stuff if we don't care for newer movies? As a woman I resented those three dizzy dames talking about how Russ Meyer liked to show off a woman's boobs, and wanted them to really push their endowments. What did we burn our bras for, do you want to go back to that mindset of being empty headed broads?

 

Okay, I'm done for now, but I would appreciate TCM showing a little concern for its loyal fans as well as drawing new fans. Am I really so wrong?

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> Where the heck were you guys a couple of months ago

> when everyone was calling me names because I said

> this character was not good for TCM, nor was he TCM

> material? I listed the movies like Mudhoney, and

> Pussycat, kill, kill, and was told I was over the

> hill, because these are classic movies and deserved

> to be shown in order to study them. How the heck can

> you study them when your hands are over your eyes?

> Now I know many of you like the September promo but

> I said then, that it was the beginning of a change.

> I said we would be getting 70's and 80's movies,

> and Zombie would be showing junk, but I was shouted

> down and quit talking. How many times in the past

> couple of weeks have you heard people say they're

> not watching TV so much, but watching their tapes

> and DVD's? I'm simply saying, I know trouble when I

> see it. It starts very slowly so you don't notice,

> then all of a sudden, boom.

 

Great post. Some people just don't recognize erosion when they see it.

 

This forum's become a real drag. Very little discussion of classic movies, unless you want to deconstruct the meaning of "classic movie" all out of recognition. It's become like a lot of other forums where you've got a vocal group of contrarians that always keeps "shouting down" posters who don't adhere to their self-styled brand of groupthink. And this group always calls themselves open-minded and tolerant - until someone disagrees with them.

 

I tell you, the longer I stay away from this forum, the less it changes - and the better I feel. I really should be watching another classic TCM movie - before they all completely disappear.

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The Wild Ones can be compared to well...maybe not MudHoney, but it was a sleazy exploitation movie. The film was your standard Hollywood violent biker film, it would only launch sleazier and more violent biker movies. The anti hero Brando, is a violent sociopath. This movie is worth watching, but be honest,.. it is sensationlist sleaze, hey it's well done sleaze but it is still sleaze. You can't put this film next to To Kill A Mockingbird, On the Waterfront, nor even Rebel without A Cause, which was a teen flick that had an underlying theme that was essentially about communication and genration gaps. So tell me why you think" The Wild Ones ",is not a sleazy flick.

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Okay, I'm done for now, but I would appreciate TCM showing a little concern for its loyal fans as well as drawing new fans. Am I really so wrong?

>>

 

Mrsl,

 

I think TCM is rewarding its loyal fans with the overall schedules for Novem, Dec and January.

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But I do dislike little 11 year old girls walking around

> in clothes that hookers of the 50's wore. e.g. in

> the 80's my daughter was going to a Halloween party

> and decided to dress like a hooker, after she was

> done, she looked at herself in the mirror and said,

> "Mom, this is how EVERYONE dresses normally to go

> clubbing, and she was right! Do you really enjoy

> seeing your daughter or niece showing off everything

> they own to strange men on the street? Why do you

> thing date rape is so prevalent nowadays? Guys are

> getting messages that aren't really there.

>

Why can't they at least save the horror commercials for nighttime, when

> we have gone to other channels to watch other stuff

> if we don't care for newer movies? As a woman I

> resented those three dizzy dames talking about how

> Russ Meyer liked to show off a woman's boobs, and

> wanted them to really push their endowments. What

> did we burn our bras for, do you want to go back to

> that mindset of being empty headed broads?

MRSL:

For decades now music has always influenced teenagers. Sometimes for the worse according to some people. But I don't think you can blame Rob Zombie for an 11 year old dressing promiscuously. At 11years old you should blame her parents! Children and teenagers should be able to mind their parents and wear what is appropriate. When I was a teenager, me and my friends dressed up for concerts in leather skirts, high heel boots and had a great time, we weren't the only ones. The concert was full of other teen age girls dressed the same way. Day to day dress was levis and concert t-shirts. My mother was strict (I couldn't have a boyfriend) but listening to my music and dressing up for the concerts was ok with her. It is all part of growing up, some of us still like that kind of music. I like everything from Brahms classical piano to the Doors and new alternative music. What I'm trying to say is lighten up, it's October and Halloween is coming and some of us really enjoy celebrating all month. Im glad TCM did something different for us who enjoy horror. Even cult films b grade are fun. As far as burning bras, we shouldn't forget. But, what is the harm in seeing these movies, will it change everything so drastically. Really it's only for what 3-4 hours late at night. Rob Zombie is not a bad guy and he does not promote date rape, or drugs. His music is about death & horror. Very appropriate for Halloween.

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I didn't mean to offend you and offer my sincere apology. Also if we couldn't / didn't voice a different opinion we all would still be under British domination. This is one of our basic freedoms in America.>>

 

Aftermath,

 

Not to worry, you did not offend me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that includes all of us.

 

All I was trying to say is that we have a little more rhetorical kindness towards those whom we disagree with and a great deal less rudeness.

 

I don't think anyone wants these boards to become the 'Stepford' boards with all of us agreeing in conformity.

 

But, we should be able to debate without calling people names, outright dismissing their opinion(s) because we don't agree with them or making fun of them.

 

That's not debate. That's the death of a once great board. And that is where, to me at least, we seem to be headed. :(

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I think this is a subject that is definitively split into two side, now, neither side is wrong, what is wrong is the idea of censorship. If you don't like a show change the channel, we obviously have cable. Hey I can't stand the racist themes in Gone With the Wind and Rythm of the River, but I just change the channel, I do not slam the people who enjoy this material, I just don't understand it. I do not see anyone name calling anyone on these boards, if people can not take debate their are other threads. If you do not like Rob Zombie, why did you come to this thread? If it was to stir the pot, then do not get mad at the stew.

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RTR's got it.

 

I can respect both sides of the debate, but when you start whining and trashing other's opinion, it totally makes your point irrelevant.

 

No one gets offended if you open your mind a little bit before posting. Same song and dance on this forum: older film buffs thinking their opinions make them more important, and the blazing young guns that don't want to hear it.

 

Everyone needs to chill the freak out....it's just television.

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> No one gets offended if you open your mind a little

> bit before posting. Same song and dance on this

> forum: older film buffs thinking their opinions make

> them more important, and the blazing young guns that

> don't want to hear it.

 

This sort of equivalency bothers me in the political arena, and it bothers me here. Most of the vitriol has come from those who object to TCMU being shown at all. There are different opinions, yes, but the hateful expression of them has been decidedly lopsided. You'd expect it to be the other way around, but it's not.

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The people who don't want TCMU aired, can take their eyes to another network, because TCMU isn't going anywhere.

 

Anyone get the TV Ratings for TCMU? Now think about regular Friday late night ratings...one plus one equals two.

 

I can assure you complaining about TCMU being aired isn't going to solve anything--not anything....so what's the point?. Ratings speak volumes louder than the loudest voice on here. The negative comments are most likely coming from people who are in bed by that time anyway.

 

Next thing will be someone actually saying FREAKS is a trash movie.

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>

> I can respect both sides of the debate,

>

> No one gets offended if you open your mind a little

> bit before posting. Same song and dance on this

> forum: older film buffs thinking their opinions make

> them more important, and the blazing young guns that

> don't want to hear it.

>

Moviegeek:

 

You just proved the contrariness of your own words. The partial sentence above (which is highlighted), does exactly what you say we should not do. I don't feel important, I just have the opinion that certain things are out of whack. I have never knocked or dismissed opinions of posters, I DO knock Rob Zombie by referring to him as a sub-human, but he looks like one to me. He is NOT new, his look is OLD. Teens and young 20's looked like that in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. Woodstock was full of them. I hated heavy metal until my kids asked me to listen, and once I got through the whining electric guitars, and the screech of the sound systems, I never liked it, but I could stand it. However, Rap is so extremely BORING to me. It all sounds alike. I'm from the age of songs with words you could sing along with, and dance with your boyfriend holding you. So when my kids started with heavy metal, and punk rock music, I closed the door. People have said Rap has different sounds, but all I hear is the same clickety, clack, sound over and over, and having read the lyrics, I haven't seen any that are nice. But for those who like it, let them. The same goes for horror films. I change the channel.

 

Kathleen:

 

RZ is not responsible for today's clothing styles, I know that, but all of his predessessors are. There was a time when 11, and 12 year olds could care less about fashion, style, and music. Previous to this generation of 11 and 12 year olds, that age still played with dolls and jacks, while the boys thought of nothing but sports and cars, girls were UUUGGGHHH. Pre-teens became teenagers during the summer of 8th grade and freshman year of high school. Most 8th grade babies became young men and women the day they graduated, or at their graduation parties. Now, please, I'm talking about middle-class white kids, me and my children, who were teens by the mid 80's. My 12 year grandson has had a (one) girlfriend since he was 10. When my boys (and their friends) were 10-12 they wouldn't let a girl within 10 feet of them. On the other hand the girls noticed the difference by about 11, but styles were different then, they were still complete cover-ups. T-shirts came down to hips, and jeans came up to waists. Shopping for school clothes for my FIRST grade 6 year old grandaughter, 90% of the skirts and jeans were hip huggers. That's disgraceful! What I mean when I complain about music and movies of today, is they all contribute to changing times, but not all change is to the good side, much of it is bad influence when it causes children to lose their childhood, and teenagers to become even more moody and anti-social than teens (up to now) have always been. If you doubt the sincerity of my words, Check out 'Rebel Without a Cause' directed by Nicholas Ray, in 1955. Teenagers never changed, in any generation, until now.

 

Message was edited by:

mrsl

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"I can assure you complaining about TCMU being aired isn't going to solve anything--not anything....so what's the point?"

 

Well, we're not going to stop complaining just because YOU say we shouldn't--so what is YOUR point?

 

If you find this disagreeable, go post somewhere else.

 

For the record, I don't give a damn what they show on Friday Nights anyway. I have long since given up looking to TCM for entertainment on Friday through Sunday. My beef is with the constant round-the-clock repetition of this obnoxious headbanging Rob Zombie promotion. They show it between every single movie all day long. It is at volume that is louder than everything else on TCM too.

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> I agree about the negativity on the boards lately.

> However, I have started several threads about

> movies, stars, movie construction etc. but nobody

> wants to answer or input ideas, all anybody seems to

> want to do is talk about Zombie and Friday nights.

 

Yes, that seems to be all that anybody posts about anymore. It's really getting dull. How can this topic still be going strong? You're either going to watch it or you're not. Let those who want to watch it, watch it. It's on past freaking midnight, after all. I can't imagine there's that many regular TCM viewers up that late, I could be wrong. I do agree the commercials on for it all hours of the day is inappropriate and annoying.

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All right. This may get a bit long, but I have to put my two cents in and defend TCM.

 

I realize there are a lot of people who don't appreciate TCM going beyond the 1960's but let's put it into perspective. 1979 was almost 30 years ago. Time marches on. There were a lot of noteworthy films during the 1970's and 1980's and if TCM wants to get into this realm so be it. I've actually enjoyed a lot of films they've shown from this time period -- Godfather, Close Encounters, Tootsie, American Graffiti, etc. Sure we've all seen them before, but it's nice when they're recognized as the classics they truly are and shown in a forum that's always uncut, commercial free and letterboxed.

 

Even TCM's occasional foray in the 1990's -- Ed Wood for example -- is justified because it's all quality stuff. I could even see the network eventually showing the works of Quentin Tarantino, Sophia Coppola, Woody Allen's later films and other Tim Burton pieces in the years to come. I mean, if they start showing junk like "Mannequin" or "Garfiled: A Tale Of Two Kitties" then you can panic. But so far, the programming choices have been brilliant.

 

Now as far as the Rob Zombie thing goes -- again, have an open mind. I've always thought that TCM has been programmed with the film buff in mind -- not the average Joe just looking to kill some time by watching a movie (that's what AMC is for). Sure, Zombie may look like a freak to the over 60 crowd, but the guy does know his stuff -- especially when it comes to cult films and exploitation films. And like it or not, these movies are an important part of cinema history...and they should be embraced as such.

 

I mean, think of it this way -- "Faster Pussycat Kill Kill" and "The Sound Of Music" were both released in 1965. Both movies are classics. Both are important, but in extremely different ways and for totally different reasons. Can't both peacefully co-exist on the same channel? If you appreciate one, why not the other?

 

Now...as far as the promos go...TCM has always been a little "too hip for the room" at times. But that's good! I think it's wonderful that all of these old films are surrounded by a bit of "modern attitude." The worst that could happen? A whole new generation gets turned on to classic movies. I'll give you an example. Last month TCM was running their promo for their salute to Janus films, star of the month, etc. That promo was set to the tune of Muse's "Time Is Running Out." My daughter actually walked into the room during that promo and asked me if it was the video for that song. Now if you can make a guy like William Holden look cool to a 16-year-old in the year 2006 -- you must be doing something right.

 

I don't know...these are just my thoughts on the matter. I guess it just comes down to what you can learn to appreciate...or at least what you're open to. Personally, I'm a a 35-year-old guy who loves movies -- ALL MOVIES. I can appreciate the technical achievements established by D.W. Griffith in Birth Of A Nation or the make-up effects achieved by Tom Savini for Friday the 13th - The Final Chapter. Hollywood epics. Cult films. Chick flicks. Slasher movies. Art films. Foreign cinema. It's all the same. If it's done well...it's all good. And it's nice to know that TCM isn't necessarily afraid to show all of it uncut, commercial free, and in the proper aspect ratio.

 

thanks for reading...mike

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> RZ is not responsible for today's clothing styles, I

> know that, but all of his predessessors are. There

> was a time when 11, and 12 year olds could care less

> about fashion, style, and music. Previous to this

> generation of 11 and 12 year olds, that age still

> played with dolls and jacks, while the boys thought

> of nothing but sports and cars, girls were

> UUUGGGHHH. Shopping for school clothes for

> my FIRST grade 6 year old grandaughter, 90% of

> the skirts and jeans were hip huggers. That's

> disgraceful!

 

MRSL:

Just out of curiosity who are the predessessors? I think todays young girls are influenced by someone like Britney Spears and Christina Aguilerra. As far as clothes I have shopped for my now 9 yr old step daughter, since she was 2 1/2. I have always found cute little girl clothes, but inevitably when she comes home from a weekend with her Bio-mom, she is dressed in short shorts, tiny tees, too tight jeans and platform flip flops! I don't know why she dresses her like this. I don't think it is influenced musically, it is more laziness on the mom's part.

 

I know you don't like Rob Zombie or horror, so I can understand your tired of the promos, also I just seen the women (now much older) from Faster Pussycat, I think they were happy to be getting recognition from that movie. But, they didn't sound like they were "real comfortable" when they were first offered the movie. At least 2 of them said they weren't.

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Mike, congrats on a well written post. Like myself, your one of the lucky movie buffs who enjoy variety.

Be prepared, cause there is plenty good stuff ahead on TCM, including hundreds of gold-mold oldies (although some tend to creak).

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KathleenT:

 

Predessessors?

 

Madonna

Cher

Kiss

Cyndi Lauper

The Rolling Stones

Guns N Roses

 

I could go on, but the little girls are not influenced by performers, their mothers are. That's what I meant when I used my daughters' Halloween costume as an example. We both realized that the clothes which, at one time were considered vulgar, and racy, were perfectly acceptable for normal evening wear by that time (the 70's & 80's). Most mothers between 25 and 35 who have never had 'professional' jobs (secretary, office clerk, receptionist, etc) have never had to dress within a code, therefore, the rest think it's cute for their little girls to be miniatures of themselves. My daughter is one, she doesn't understand why I get angry at children's clothes. She'll dress the little one in an outfit and say "doesn't she look cute?", and I answer "Yeah, for a 20 year old on the prowl." Then my daughter gets angry. Fashion designers have been doing this for years. At one time, you couldn't buy a knee length skirt, all that was offered were minis, and not everyone could wear a mini. Right now, everyone wears jeans, and lets face it, not everyone looks good in jeans, especially someone who is only 10 pounds overweight. (It's roll out the barrel time). Madonna is 52, Cher is 60, and Cyndi is 57 and they were my daughters' idols, the look has been adapted to the Britney Spears, and Aguilerras, only the look has been 'modernized' to bare midriff, and no bra. Just as someone wrote that 50's movies began being aimed at teens, the trend has continued, but teens are seeing more and more now, and learning, and knowing, more now. So instead of raising the bar, movie makers are lowering it, with a few exceptions. I hate to keep repeating myself but, change, my dear, takes time, and starts verrrrry slowly, until all of a sudden you look around at your world and wonder What the hell happened!?

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