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Caddyshack is Classic


TBickle
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So many times I've read through the TCM blogs wondering why viewers choose to date the network with definative time frames of "Classic" and its relevence to what is shown.

So what is classic?

I start with - "Caddyshack is Classic"

as is Lee Marvin's "Point Blank"

as is "Blue Velvet".

unfortunately, they all get aired after 12 am.

 

P.S -Nelson Macdonald and Jennette Eddie films that aired in March are dated, not classic. The promo far outweighed the miserable experience in operatic nightmare I was privelidge enough to watch.

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No offence TBickle *(yes I'm talking to you) While the films you mentioned are good films,this is a Classic Movie site and yes, some are dated but they are Classic Films with Classic Actors and Actresses.(The stuff that dreams are made of...) There is a strong line as to what some people consider classic. If Nelson Eddy and Jeanette Macdonald films are not your cup of tea, turn to another channel. TBickle:I got some bad ideas in my head.(I know)

 

vallo

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Pat's analogy: The 1967 and 2006 Ford Mustangs are both great cars. The 1967 will always be considered a classic (sorry, I never liked pre-1967), while the 2006 most likely never will. And though the 1958 Edsel will always be remembered as a loser, it is still a classic. I loved Caddyshack, and it's a great movie, but I'll never call it a classic, not even after 50 more years. Classic to me denotes early, not necessarily old. I can't call anything after the first 50-odd years of filmmaking classic. And I love all old movies, good or bad. "Nelson Macdonald and Jennette Eddie" [sic] movies are classic and fun to watch. Wow, how many times did I just use the word "classic"? Oops, that's one more. Now I'll step off my rather tall soapbox.

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Hi,

 

Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

To me Classic has more to do with the quality of a film. A subjective opinion to be sure but a better measure than if it's "old" or "of an era".

 

By definition Classic means 'of the first class' and was first applied to the civilization of anceint Greece and Rome. It's also been applied to everything from Renaissance Art to the original Coke formula. While I think it has less to do with time (age) and is more a measure of quality, I suppose there should be some weight given to the age of a film with regard to whether or not it's to be considered classic.

 

Age and Era cannot be the only criteria for Classic. There's some pretty lame films from the "20's, 30's, 40's and 50's...no?

 

Caddyshack a classic? Why not? Ok, ok...it features a Kenny Loggins song, but...

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Careful Vallo13, all of us that consider classics as the golden age of the 30s, 40s and 50s will be labeled as narrow minded classic movie bigots. I don't know, maybe we are. Classic is, I suppose, a subjective term. All I know is if you want to watch "Caddyshack," "Blue Velvet," "Spaceballs" or "A Few Good Men" just tune into TBS, TNT, HBO and few hundred more channels such as these and I'm sure you'll find it playing. On the other hand, those of us that like the movies from the 30s and 40s have very little options outside TCM. So those that like Jeanette and Nelson, Fred and Ginger or Gable and Harlow can really only find them on TCM.

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Well, add one more narrow-minded bigot to the pot! Here in "our little world," most of us think of classic as a "period" containing fabulously glorious films from a studio system that no longer exists. This period of "The Golden Age of Hollywood" peaked in 1939 and then rolled gracefully into oblivion by the end of the fifties. So, keep your Greek definition. It is accurate and literal. However, even though Caddyshack may be considered a classic of its time, it does not belong in the "classical" period of "studio" film making. This is a distinction many forget to make. Therefore, simply due to it chronological emergence, it does not meet the criteria!

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most of us think of classic as a "period" containing fabulously glorious films from a studio system that no longer exists. This period of "The Golden Age of Hollywood" peaked in 1939 and then rolled gracefully into oblivion by the end of the fifties.>>

 

Historically speaking, the decline of the studio system took many years and there are those who would argue that the final nail in the coffin was when Jack Warner retired and Warner Bros was sold in 1967. He was the last mogul standing, still "in charge" of the studio he helped create.

 

Plus, many stars and directors of the studio system continued to make some good and occasionally great films throughout the 1960s and I still contend it would be a pity for TCM to adhere to a rigid "no films after 1959" policy.

 

I'm just trying to defend films like "Mockingbird", "Lawrence", "Dr Zhivago", "Liberty Valance" and many, many others that are part of TCM and should be part of TCM.

 

Message was edited by:

me because I forgot to include the date

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Well, add one more narrow-minded bigot to the pot! Here in "our little world," most of us think of classic as a "period" containing fabulously glorious films from a studio system that no longer exists. This period of "The Golden Age of Hollywood" peaked in 1939 and then rolled gracefully into oblivion by the end of the fifties. So, keep your Greek definition. It is accurate and literal. However, even though Caddyshack may be considered a classic of its time, it does not belong in the "classical" period of "studio" film making. This is a distinction many forget to make. Therefore, simply due to it chronological emergence, it does not meet the criteria!

 

 

 

 

Once again GarboManiac, I agree with you! I have just one question-when most of first discovered Turner Classic Movies and cheered,were we happy that we would FINALLY get to see such movies as "The Maltese Falcon" or "Male And Female",and such actors as Norma Shearer and Mary Pickford,and Charlie Chaplin and Clark Gable,and all the "little" lesser-known films from the Golden Age Of Hollywood,or was our first thought,"Yippee,now I can watch anime and Caddyshack and Sonny & Cher"? When I first became a regular fan of TCM many years ago,I know what I thought I would be seeing on a channel calling itself Turner Classic Movies,and it wasn't any of the latter! No,all movies from the silent era and from the Silver Screen era aren't "classics",and it's difficult to set parameters by era,but it can be loosely done(not too loosely!)

 

 

 

I think that most all of us had an idea from the start that Turner Classic Movies meant movies from the silent,pre-Code,and Golden era,and any other definition is changing the rules.When you go to buy a book on "classic" Hollywood films,what are you expecting to read about? This definition has served well for a long time,and trying to torture it into meaning something else is disingenuous! It doesn't matter what it means,technically-it's been generally understood for a long long time to refer to movies(great and not so good) from a particular,only somewhat loosely defined,era of Hollywood movie-making.

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I have just one question-when most of us first discovered Turner Classic Movies and cheered, were we happy that we would FINALLY get to see such movies as "The Maltese Falcon" or "Male And Female", and such actors as Norma Shearer and Mary Pickford, and Charlie Chaplin and Clark Gable, and all the "little" lesser-known films from the Golden Age Of Hollywood, or was our first thought, "Yippee, now I can watch anime and Caddyshack and Sonny & Cher"?

 

Oh, what a riot! I was on the floor! Good for you daddysprimadonna! That is exactly how we all felt! Now, we must "fight for the right to P-A-R-T-Y! Oops! Sorry, I got carried away.

 

Man! TBickle sure opened a can o' woims!

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It doesn't matter what it means,technically-it's been generally understood for a long long time to refer to movies(great and not so good) from a particular,only somewhat loosely defined,era of Hollywood movie-making. >>

 

I may always be the odd woman out in these discussions. I am old enough to have gotten my love of films from the days of the Million Dollar Movies, the Late, Late Show (and not C. Ferguson) and art and revival houses.

 

I love silent movies and movies from all eras. I don't need to see current 21st Century movies on TCM as there are plenty of opportunities to see them in my everyday life.

 

However, in my everyday life, I appreciate that TCM includes films from the 1960s (Sonny and Cher notwithstanding) and 1970s as there were many great films made during that time and I saw most of them firsthand in a movie theatre. TCM is the one channel that will show them letterboxed and uncut.(Baring problems with the rented print every now and then).

 

While we like to heap scorn on TCM for showing the Sonny and Cher film the channel didn't implode as witnessed by the scheduling gems we have had and will continue to have throughout the summer.

 

While TCM Programmer took a chance with the anime feature films earlier this winter I would wager to bet that there are lurkers and posters here who appreciated seeing films they might never have given a second look at. It's not like TCM is running an Anime Festival every week or even every month.

 

I give them credit for trying to program for the big tent crowd that is their viewership. Will every choice be brillant? Of course not. They'll stumble periodically and then wow us with months like May, June, July and September.

 

We all seem to focus on the stumbles and hide behind the argument that we are protecting them from becoming AMC. This argument works only once or twice. After that it becomes like crying wolf.

 

As filmlover, path, coffeedan and others have pointed out (so often they must be blue in the face), the programming we are seeing now in terms of films from the 1960s-1980s is the same as it was 8 years ago.

 

Perhaps part of the problem is that 8 years ago, the classic era films were newer to us because it had been 40-50 years since we had been able to see them with a click of the remote.

 

TCM can't show every film from the silents to 1959 because the simple truth is that not every film still exists, not every film is on a digital format that TCM can air, no film has elements that are so pristine that they don't need preservation or restoration, and no studio has the $$$$ to throw open the vaults and pay for that preservation, restoration and transfer to a digital format of every film in their vaults.

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lzcutter,I'm not quite ready to say that the ship is sinking(going the way of AMC),but everytime they incrementally add another more-or-less modern movie to the line-up,that's less space for one less classic movie that could've been screened. And the incrementalism is what makes me cynical.

 

 

I don't have to like every classic movie that TCM screens-there are plenty that just aren't my cup of tea-but I will NEVER argue with the schedule,as long as it's still classic movies. I just don't see why valuable scheduling time needs to be sucked up by these modern movies,when even given what you say about all the classic movies that aren't in circulation at any given time,there are still plenty that don't get a showing that often. "Silent Sundays",for instance,is so often pre-empted,and I know that silents are shown at other times,but it's a shame that more often than not,the silents and pre-Codes are shown in the wee hours.

 

I,along with some others,can remember when we could turn on TCM any time of the day or night and see a classic movie-ie,some little pre-Code I'd never seen,in the afternoon. That hardly ever happens anymore. There are whole days that I skip TCM now-in the past,I'd watch almost anything that was showing,because even if it wasn't on my list of favorite films or genres,it would be a classic,and I could appreciate it for that reason.

 

If I wanted to see modern movies(as I've said before,my defintion roughly-roughly-coincides with the studio era-the silents are somewhat outside of that,and a very few at the tail end of the studio system),there are plenty of channels showing them. Why must TCM also be infested with them? Is there no refuge ANYwhere from modern films,for lovers of classic movies?

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Hi,

 

Since "Caddyshack" is now a classic movie, we can all champion bringing on those wonderful 'Osmond movies' that that dork from another thread is crowing about every 2 minutes.

 

Can you imagine it: we all look on adoringly at Donny and now all together -- "My Donny, what big teeth you've got!"........

 

Larry

 

Ps - I just know I'm going to resurrect 'El Dorko' with this post. Sorrrry...

 

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vecchiolarry

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Its an interesting perspective that "classic" has been cornered by several of the respondents to a specific time in film history. I disagree, obviously. Yet I hear a perpetrating fear of somehow the network losing focus on film history by showing movies of the last thirty years.. Thats funny last time I checked, a car is considered a classic after 20 years. Caddyshack was 1980. You do the math.

It has a slew of comedians that had never been on screen together before, and could not be afforded in the present era of filmmaking. Someone mentioned, seeing the film 50 times, and if you ask most who are fans of the film, they've seen it that many times. Sounds like a classic to them. Maybe your impression of Classic relates more to the relative point where we as viewers first saw a film, verses discovering it for the first time years after its release. TCM is simply changing with the times...and we are forgeting how old we are.

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daddysprimadonna I wholeheartedly agree with you. Others say that movies from the 70's and 80's are now classic, but that is just not true. There are maybe a handful of decent movies from those years but they can all be seen on other channels and are on DVD or VHS. TCM is our only source for the good old movies from the 20's to 50's many of which are not available on VHS or DVD.

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"I think that most all of us had an idea from the start that Turner Classic Movies meant movies from the silent, pre-Code,and Golden era, and any other definition is changing the rules. . . . This definition has served well for a long time,and trying to torture it into meaning something else is disingenuous!"

 

 

What you're saying is that TCM itself has been "disingenuous" for many years now.

 

 

Here's how the 1999 version of this website defined TCM's format at that time --

 

 

?TCM presents films from the 1920s to the 1980s - from Hollywood?s heyday through more contemporary eras.?

 

 

Here's how TCM's general manager, Tom Karsch, defined the network's format in a January 2006 interview --

 

 

?The bread and butter of the network is movies from the 1930s to the 1970s. But we will always continue to sprinkle in some of the newer films.?

 

 

If you "had an idea" that TCM's format was something other than this, you were incorrect to think so.

 

 

Again, the evidence I've seen indicates that TCM's format has been remarkably consistent over the years.

 

 

If you have evidence that it's changed, fire away.

 

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Yes, I do think that it's disingenuous. I am perfectly aware that TCM has shown a few newer movies since its inception,but they were VERY few and far between. Every year it seems that there are a few more,and they are newer and newer,and shown more often. There have been some days that were nothing except newer movies,recently. I've watched TCM for a long long time,and until recently,I don't recall not bothering to watch TCM for days at a time because of the plethora of "modern classics"(HA!)

 

Now we have this upcoming "reality show" in the works-ye gods! Yet more time taken away from classic movie programming.For all the people who love all these "modern classics"-why not watch them,then,on one of the many channels that show them as a matter of course? Why insist that they be shown on TCM,the ONE place to see "older classics" (since the word "classic",in the context of movies,now needs to be qualified)? Why can't TCM,the last bastion of true,classic,"silver screeen" Hollywood movies,be left to show just that? I swear,some people just aren't happy unless they're fixing what isn't broke,all in the name of "progress" and "keeping up with the times". And no,I'm not an old curmudgeon!

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Yes, I do think that it's disingenuous. I am perfectly aware that TCM has shown a few newer movies since its inception,but they were VERY few and far between. Every year it seems that there are a few more,and they are newer and newer,and shown more often. >>

 

But the old Now Playing Guides and the old schedules that have been found and posted have shown that TCM is NOT playing more modern films than before.

 

I looked at the June schedule today and there are days with a mix of films from the 1930s-1980s and there are days when all the films are pre-1959.

 

Are we (the universal we) spending less time watching TCM because our lives are not what they were ten years ago when we started watching (meaning busier, other interests, etc) or maybe because we have more choices now with DVDs and the classic films in our own collections that make us less likely to turn on TCM just to watch a classic film?

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You know,actually,I hardly ever discuss this topic anymore,because it's pointless.Obviously what will be,will be-as we shall see by the upcoming addition of the new "reality" show. Ugh! One of the main aspects of the appeal of TCM and classic movies,for me,was the escapism factor.

 

So I shall join stoneyburke and some others in taping those films that TCM shows that I like,or may like sometime(lucky for me that I'm an insomniac,as a lot of the best stuff is shown during "vampire hours",LOL),and filling in the gaps when possible by buying the DVDs as they're released. I can't wait to learn how to use my VHS-to-DVD player/recorder! I have so many old movies on tape that I haven't seen shown on TCM in ages! If TCM would just show "Chance At Heaven" one more time,so that I can get a good copy-the one time they showed it,something went screwy with the screening. And then "Hollywood Revue Of 1929" and "Let Us Be Gay",and I'll take it from there,and TCM can add all the "modern classics" and reality programming they like to the line-up :)

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lz, you may be perfectly correct-but why does it seem like there are more modern movies on TCM,shown more often? I just don't see why I'm noticing it,if nothing's different at all.

 

 

 

I do remember not too many years ago,being able to turn TCM on in the afternoon,and catching some B-movie that I'd never heard of,or a pre-Code that I'd always wanted to see,being shown-it doesn't seem like these movies were parcelled out as if they were water in the desert,the way it seems now. It feels(yes,this is emotionally based,not statistically,but I "see" a difference,so there it is) as if TCM didn't used to be so "stingy" with the good stuff. I was amazed to discover how many good movies(not necessarily great,but good to view,for one reason or another) there were that I never dreamed existed,and not a modern one in the bunch-big movies,little unknown movies,pre-Codes,back when I wasn't cognisant of such a genre,and on and on.

 

 

 

Now it's like panning for gold to see these movies,unless you're like me and have insomnia and will stay up all night just to catch one,and even then,lately,you won't necessarily catch one-it used to be a given that these types of movies would be on all night,a while back! It was great! All the early talkies that would on in those hours,the "transitional" period movies-you could almost always count on catching some of those if you stayed up all night! I used to love it!

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Obviously what will be,will be-as we shall see by the upcoming addition of the new "reality" show. Ugh!>>

 

For the record, the "reality" show is not a done deal with TCM. It is a pilot idea that has to be written, produced, edited and then TCM has to decide to make it part of the schedule.

 

It may very well fall by the way side (as pilots on other networks are known to do) and being written off without ever seeing the light of our respective tv screens.

 

As for afternoon screenings on TCM, perhaps it is because I am on the West Coast but most afternoon screenings are filled with pre-1959 films.

 

I suspect that part of the problem for all of us may be that the wonderful films like "Hollywood Revue", "Wonder Bar" and others that were aired in the early days when TCM had a tape based server are not available in a format that TCM can run on their digital server . (Blame technology and the hi-def revolution for that one, not TCM). Another part of the problem I suspect is that since we have had TCM for over ten years, we are more inclined to look at TCM for appointment television (unless we are all childless, spouseless, roommateless, etc and have complete control of the remote controls and televisions in our homes).

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I suspect that part of the problem for all of us may be that the wonderful films like "Hollywood Revue", "Wonder Bar" and others that were aired in the early days when TCM had a tape based server are not available in a format that TCM can run on their digital server .

 

 

 

Well, that explains that,because those are exacly the type of movies that I used to love to catch on TCM in the afternoon or especially late at night/early morning-those,and the lesser known types of them. It seems that Helen Twelvetrees was rather ubiquitous in the type of movie I'm thinking of,the "teacup dramas" and courtroom dramas which were so prevalent because they worked well with the still primitive talkie technology. Those are so difficult to catch anymore,at any time! And I can watch any time,because I have the spouse,but not the children,and control all the TVs except one(I should be embarrassed to admit that I even have one in my bathroom-but I'm not,LOL)

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