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Bollywood Movies?


nickdimeo
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I just received my June issue of Now Playing today in the mail and noticed TCM is running a tribute to Bollywood all month in June. Is there anybody out there that is looking forward to this complete waste of precious airtime next month? And if so can you please explain to me what the kick to it is. I notice whenever I go into my local liquor store, the guy at the counter always has these movies on and I stare at the screen dumbfounded. I guess I need someone to explain it to me. Are there American's that watch these movies. I enjoy foreign films but these films are a bit beyond foreign for me.

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I completely agree with you Nick - I didn't post a similar complaint because I wanted to be "politically correct" - but I'm glad you had the cahones to do it.

 

I never had any interest in these films, nor have I been exposed to them much. Unlike the other foreign films that TCM shows, these films are so far removed from mainstream American society that it actually shocks me that they're showing them. I guess they want to appeal to everyone, and broaden their viewership - which is all good, but in the meantime, us loyal fans have to suffer.

 

I don't want to knock TCM in any way, but the whole "Bollywood" thing is a bit much. It's like if I went to India and started showing John Wayne movies - they'd be a little perturbed, don't you think?

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I have a feeling that this topic might spark some serious debate, but I kind of have a problem with the programming as well. A few months back there were some heated posts about what makes a movie "CLASSIC" and I think the general consensus was that a "CLASSIC" is a film that has the ability to endure and transcend over time. I really don't feel this to be the case with the "Bollywood" movies (especially the ones from the '90's through 2001 which are the majority of the films TCM is showing next month). Now I'm all for movies that don't usually appeal to the "mainstream" public (I enjoy cult movies, independents, etc.) but I'm a little weary of the upcoming selection next month. But maybe I'll give a couple a try and be pleasantly surprised...who knows?

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To nickdimeo, I have as yet to see the June TCM schedule & for years got "Now Playing," but stopped awhile ago & will get a sub. to-it again-(just moved)

What in the... Is BOLLYWOOD? From what you were sayin' is it foreign-flicks? Or is it the likes of what AMC has turned into. (spencer64@ij.net)

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Spencer, Bollywood refers to movies brought to us from India and mostly in Hindi language. However, I think I would rather watch movies like GUNGA DIN, THE JUNGLE BOOK, BOWHANI JUNCTION, and even the recent KAMA SUTRA (although, I think the sexual content might be too much for TCM to air).

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Spence, these Bollywood movies are so beyond anything mainstream it's ridiculous! The only thing I can think of less mainstream is a Snuff Movie! TCM is really dissapointing their viewers by showing these type of movies in prime time in June. Look around on your cable there is probably some obscure channel that shows these movies late at night. Very Dissapointing!

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Hi Nickdimeo,

 

I was just surfing the site for the name of this wonderful movie I saw on May 11th, it was with a all chinese cast. I simply loved that movie. I adore all these old classic movies, I guess thats a bit odd for my age. I'm 20, and my friends get bored pretty fast watching TCM with me. Anyway, I wanted to say, Yes, I am an american and I love indian films. Bollywood makes some of the greatest films, and they remind me of a few old hollywood classic movies, (the musicals). I guess you have to actually sit down and take the time to watch one, and perhaps you may enjoy it. I think its great TCM will play few bollywood movies, but thats only because I like them. It would be nice if other stations played such movies, so I say way to go for TCM for taking a chance.I've only seen three listed on June 5th, Im not really looking forward to them, because I've seen better indian flims, but once you start looking at them you surely get hook on these movies. (well some ppl do) I took my friend to see K3G (Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham),and she fell asleep during the movie. haha I thought it was great, but she hated it.

 

If you want to try a film out Nickimeo rent...

Devdas

Dil se

K3G

....just give it a try *smileee

 

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Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I have to agree...I was a bit surprised that TCM was showing Indian Cinema not from the 30's, 40's or 50's or even the 60's, but from what I understand they're pretty recent. That is pretty much my only objection. There are some films that don't appeal to me on TCM, but somehow this just strikes me as strange?

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I must disagree. I always try to approach all art forms, especially film, with an open mind and a sense of some appreciation. Someone asked if Americans actually watched these films. To them I would say look around at the millions of Indian Americans living in the United States, but more so, you do not have to be Indian to appreciate Indian Cinema. I am American born and raised, dating back more generations than I can count, but I am increasingly becoming disappointed at the growing lack of tolerance or appreciation for other cultures in this country. I thought we were making progress, but it seems recently that we've jumped back 70 years. Let's stop the ethnocentrism, especially when it comes to art. There is a world of cultures and diversity beyond our borders. If we stopped living in a gigantic bubble we may be able to see it. I for one, will watch the bollywood and perhaps learn something in the process.

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Good golly Miss Molly its Bollywood! Why not? I'm game for something a little different during the summer when re-runs are all over the place.

Let's face it TCM also shuffels re-runs throughout the months especially "Mildred Pierce" and "Citizen Kane".

Who knows? It could be interesting.

 

Mongo

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Listen Oscar, why don't you get off your elitists soapbox for a second...This message board has a more open minded and tolerant audience than any other I ever been on. As for myself, I feel that TCM is so successful because they stick to what their audience is comfortable with. Every once in awhile they'll show a movie like "Metropolis;" not exactly mainstream, and I'm sure that viewers were intrigued by this foreign silent, even though it wasn't your average TCM film. That is why this network is great. We don't need a lecture from you about cultural awareness. It seems you are the one who isn't open to others opinions.

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It is not elitism to recognize diversity in art. I am very open to varying opinions - even yours. Point being, to actually have diversity of opinions. Do you see? Diversity in opinions, diversity among TCMs audience, and diversity among the films and programming they air. I believe the producers implemented some demographic research prior to airing the bollywood films. Do not become defensive my friend. It is, after all, only entertainment.

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I just read the article about the Bollywood movies under TCM's movie news page and now I'm kind of looking forward to the festival. The style is described as "over the top and operatic" as well as using lots of color and "elaborate choreography". These elements are what made MOULIN ROUGE so enjoyable for me...Supposedly the tribute is hosted by Ismail Merchant, whose films I enjoy also. Now I'm really excited...BTW, has anyone seen THE GURU that was to come out a couple of months ago? It looked really fun and was supposed to be a smash, but it doesn't seem to have been that successful??

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Thanks for answer! & now I do agree 100 per cent with you guys. What I am pretty-certain TCM is, no not attempting they are doing-it, in all honesty! Is counterprogram what those "moronic" people did to AMC-(Emphasis on the word "MORONIC"-particularly when it comes to the commercials!!!) It's metaphorically kinda' what Jay Leno has done on the "Tonight Show"-(musical guests) Compared to the Johnny Carson crowd! This is also part of this country & this "PC"/"multiculture" nonsense, that started on college campuses' of all-places? They are attempting to "dust-off," TCM's image of just being Hollywoods Golden Age/Studio System-(which this phenomenal network is not all just that, there have always been some flix shown that were not 40 years old to begin with?) But my gut-felling is that this is the reasoning behind this & several other bits last few months. Ving Rhames, Alan Rickman drawing,etc. Trying to appeal to a broader/younger crowd!

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I think you hit the nail on the head Spencer - TCM is trying to appeal to a broader audience, and showing these Bollywood movies is one way of doing so. I hope and pray that they never go the way that AMC did. I don't believe that they will, considering all of the flack that AMC received once they started showing new 'B' films, and adding commercials to boot.

 

I actually like the newer "look" that TCM gives to its original programming, like the "painting with light" ads, as well as their other filler programming. It keeps the station from looking old hat, and gives it more appeal to the general public. Even their commercial for "Metropolis" was very modern, and could rival any of the commercials that we see for new movies. I am all for giving the classics a fresh, cool look to entice more viewers. I also like the fact that they show newer films that can hold their own with the greats of the past. However, I have to reiterate the fact that the showing of "Bollywood" movies does not fit in with TCM's programming. It's not that I am against them - I just don't want to see them on TCM - I want TCM to stay the way it is, which is just perfect.

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I disagree with the detractors of this month's special: I'm a fan of (many) Bollywood films, and I think that these movies will gain an additional following once people actually have a chance to see them. The films they're showing are not all recent movies, but span several decades. DDLJ itself (one of my favorite movies ever) has run continuously in Indian theatres for well over 300 weeks - how can people not be curious about a film that has such a devoted following? Sholay is a classic of Indian cinema and will give people a chance to get acquainted with Amitabh Bachchan, a deservedly world-famous star everywhere but here, I think. I have to agree with a previous poster's friend about some movies like K3G being less than thrilling (you'll rarely hear me say that about a Shah Rukh Khan/Kajol movie, but K3G just didn't appeal) but it's not fair to write off the entire Mumbai film industry just because it has a reputation for making its share of shallow, fluffy movies. I wish they'd show Devdas or Lagaan as another recent flick, and throw in Kuch Kuch Hota Hai for sheer fun and mass appeal. I've shown KKHH to all my Very Average American friends and relatives and they've all loved it. Lately I've been watching the independent film network and Trio just to get a bit of variety in my TV life, so it's great that I don't have to scroll quite so far up the dial. And aren't the comparisons to the B-movies on AMC just a bit insulting? Watch the movies first and make the comparisons later. And for those who say that this festival doesn't cater at all to popular tastes, it's worth noting that Bollywood IS a popular commercial trend these days. There's a big-budget Andrew Lloyd Webber Bollywood-inspired musical. There are all the Bollywood themes in movies like Moulin Rouge, and the success of movies like Bend It Like Beckham. There are musical crossovers from Bollywood soundtracks to popular music and back again. There's a Bollywood actress on the panel at Cannes. TCM can't be faulted for jumping on a hot trend. With luck, they'll fan the flames a bit. :)

 

Please, give the movies a chance. There is variety in Indian cinema as there is in Hollywood. You may not like all of the movies shown, but you just might find yourself hooked. It happened to me, it can happen to you!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think it's great that TCM is showing these movies. Like previous posters have said, they're hugely influential on flicks like "Moulin Rouge!" and as to their popularity, "Lagaan" was a huge hit here in Nashville, so there.

 

Actually, I've found that the atmosphere on these boards is hugely parochial and sometimes racist, so do with that what you will.

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I have always been a huge fan of musicals and classic movies; they have made me the person I am today by the morals, imagination and personalities they possessed. I basically thought these types of movies were gone though and that people weren?t interested in good wholesome movies anymore; that is, until I saw Lagaan. I found Lagaan in the video store and thought I would take a chance on a four hour film from India. As soon as I popped it in the VCR, I knew it was special. Lagaan had everything that I thought had been lost in films today. It had a good storyline, an innocent romance, action without violence, a great lesson/ moral to learn and best of all, it was a musical. Ever since I saw Lagaan I've wanted to see more from Bollywood but didn't know where to start. I'm really happy that TCM is showing these. I thought they would program older films than 1995, but I'm still interested in seeing them.

haha and they better not change into another AMC.

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I just saw the listing for DDLJ in our onscreen guide channel, and it looks like the festival's organizers didn't really do their homework in the listing: the two cast members listed are Anaita and Farida Jalal. LOL! Anaita is Anaita Shroff, who has maybe a dozen lines as Sheena. Farida Jalal's Lajjo is a more important character, but certainly not the star of the film (she does have one of the best scenes, though). I was so looking forward to seeing Shah Rukh Khan and Kajol credited!

 

If you like the films in the festival, I'd recommend http://www.planetbollywood.com/ for more film info, and either eBay or http://www.vistaindia.com/ for a DVD source. I think I have more Hindi-language films than English ones at this point, and my collection's growing.

 

Really, I'm about as typically WASP-y as you can get, stodgy and middle-aged, and I am addicted. I hope more people give these films a chance. They might look a bit different than the films one sees every day, but themes like love and family and war and rebellion translate very well.

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If a classic is a movie that endures, then some of the selections for the Bollywood festival definitely fit the definition (especially the older ones). A classic is a classic in any language and genre and Bollywood is just another genre or a mix of genres. India has its Satyajit Rays and other non-Hindi language, non-Bollywood artsy film makers who make great "realism" films that Americans would probably prefer watching to Bollywood films, but nothing can match the reach and charm of the best of Bollywood. The best of Bollywood appeals to basic human nature: music, singing, dancing, poetry, a simple love of life, colours, no vulgarity - a desire to just throw caution to the wind and let go of your inhibitions and all your worries in this world and escape into a fantasy world where it's okay to suspend your disbelief (after all why should films and books always reflect reality? We get a huge dose of it everyday.)

I do agree that some of the more recent selections are a bit strange for a channel like TCM (example Rangeela, which has been given an 8pm time slot instead of the cult classic and far better film Sholay which has been relegated to 2 am. What were they thinking?) I would have left out a few of the choices and replaced them with what I consider far better, more classic Bollywood films. It's not going to appeal to everyone, especially most Americans - so this was a very risky move by TCM and one they'll probably not repeat again.

A lot of Americans tell me they find people breaking into song and dance a bit strange (and the poorer Bollywood films don't mix the songs and narrative very well, but the best ones do it incredibly well), whereas in cultures like India, in Africa etc. there are songs for every occasion from the time you're born, you're married, you die, there are songs for working in the rice paddies, for harvesting, - it's so normal to see people in these cultures singing and dancing in their everyday lives.

I think a lot of the better Bollywood films are far more human, watchable and downright enjoyable and uplifting in a lighthearted, silly, fun way than a lot of mainstream, special effects, sex-driven Hollywood movies today or those that take themselves way too seriously --- the music, the choreography, the camera work, the lush colours and clothing, the leading ladies in the best Bollywood films are stupendous, beautiful and vibrant, like in the old Hollywood musicals. There's nothing wrong with a movie that aims for all out entertainment for the masses as long as it does it well and with style, without taking itself too seriously and without catering to the lowest common denominator -- so there's good Bollywood films and incredibly bad Bollywood films.

As for mixing genres: isn't life like that? Aren't our everyday lives a mix of tragedy one minute, comedy the next, happiness, sadness, adventure, mystery - can't we experience all these in a single day? Why does a film have to be boxed into a genre?

The themes of family values, boy meets girl, good always triumphing over bad etc., little or no overt graphic sex (but sensuality aplenty) -- although these days that's changing to cater to a more sophisticated, urban India, sometimes it's good and sometimes it's just vulgar and pointless -- may seem simplistic and cliched to a Western audience but they are the reason why Bollywood films have appealed to the more conservative cultures of Africa, Asia, the Middle East, the Caribbean and even the former Soviet Union, more so than many Hollywood movies. Wherever I go in Africa, the Middle East, Afghanistan, parts of Asia etc., I'm inevitably asked (by non-Indians) about Bollywood and Indian movie stars like Amitabh Bachchan - he may not be known in America but to millions around the world he's a legend. I'm always asked about the ravishing Bollywood heroines - by the men of course, who want to know all about them. They still ask about Bollywood heroines from the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s (and of course the present ones, especially Devdas heroine Aishwarya Rai), even though a lot of them don't act anymore. The strangest thing was to go to a really small island off Kenya's coast and find not one but two big cinemas - both showing Indian movies -- in a really conservative society with only a handful of Indians actually living there, as opposed to mainland Kenya. One tour guide didn't speak a word of Hindi but had memorized hundreds of famous songs and dialogues and serenaded tourists with these songs. Whatever the language, music transcends cultures.

It's a phenomenon that Americans probably don't understand because of the great differences in American and Indian cultures and because the glory days of the musical are long gone in American cinema. But in a lot of the non-Western, developing world -- especially those without a big mass market cinematic tradition of their own, but with strong folk/classic music and dance traditions of their own and where people aren't embarassed by too much emotion, crying, breaking into song and dance -- Bollywood is the only mass market entertainment industry that appears more in keeping with their cultural values (despite the cultural differences, certain values always transfer) and which can successfully take on the Hollywood/Western global hegemony of popular culture (movies and music). The only other one I can think of is the Chinese martial arts films (also very popular in some of these areas). So while it's outside the American/Western mainstream, and I don't expect it to ever be really mainstream in America, it actually is mainstream in a vast swath of the globe.

As for the person below who asked what Indians would think if he came to India and showed John Wayne movies? It's already been done decades ago. Indians were watching John Wayne movies not too long after they were released in the U.S. and have been watching Hollywood movies and some American TV shows (I remember watching I Love Lucy while growing up) for decades. Now with the proliferation of a million cable TV channels in India, American movie classics and more recent films can easily be found on some of them. But just as mainstream America prefers its own movies and music, fortunately mainstream India still prefers its own movies and music and hasn't been swamped by Hollywood and MTV like a lot of other countries. But that doesn't stop us from appreciating what is foreign or borrowing liberally from it and then remaking it in our own image and according to our own sensibiitlies - fusion at its best (and worst at times). No one complains that American movies shown on cable, including John Wayne's westerns, don't represent the Indian mainstream because Indians have always admired the American love for movies and a good movie is a good movie, whatever the culture, language or genre. No one will complain as long as Indian movies and music remain the people's choice and reflect Indian culture. When foreign movies start to dominate the local market or foreign movies offend local sensibilities, then some people will complain. The same would be true in America. I doubt Bollywood movies will ever dominate TCM or the American mainstream so don't worry :).

It's no surprise that the U.S. and India are home to the two largest movie industries in the world (with the Indian one being bigger in terms of number of movies produced) -- they are home to the two most avid movie watching publics in the world. It was the American musical that inspired many of India's early film makers, and since music is an integral part of Indian culture, the musical genre stuck as India's most popular movie form -- India just adopted it but reinvented it according to its own culture. Films became the perfect mass communication method and the musical was the natural choice because it encapsulates the soul of India (well at least the best ones do).

I think TCM's Bollywood festival is not a terribly bad idea, although a lot of people will complain and disagree with me (don't worry it's only four Thursdays and will soon be over :) and I doubt TCM will make it a regular thing) , but the movie selection could have been much better. Perhaps TCM is not the best place to show these movies. It would be great if there was a FMC or IMC (foreign movie channel or international movie channel) which could just show popular commercial movies from around the world and arthouse ones as well.

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I think the whole idea of showcasing Bollywood movies is great but I think there are some far better films out there then some that they are showing such as Rangeela. What about Kuch Kuch Hota Hai Kahbi Khushi Kahbie Ghum and Devdas? Those where the top three best movies in the Bollywood film industy in terms of totally grossings and I personally think that they are great movies but I still love this idea to be showing Bollywood movies on a regular American Channel. Now a lot of my white and black friends can watch the movies that I love so much and many of my non Indian friends enjoy Bollywood movies so much because of the dancing, singing and their outfits. I hope they do a showcase like this again.

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Agreed. Rangeela is a poor choice to introduce an American audience, especially one used to watching TCM, to classic Bollywood. Devdas, Umrao Jaan or even the more recent Asoka, Lagaan, Dil Se or Hum Dil De Chuke Sanam are better choices. I wonder who chose a couple of of these movies? There doesn't seem to have been much thought put into it.

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TCM?s decision to make all these Bollywood movies accessible to so many Americans is simply brilliant.

I have not been a fan of Bollywood for very long, but I do believe that Hindi popular cinema is perhaps the most vibrant, expressive, and entertaining form of cinema there is. I first took an interest in Bollywood after I saw Baz Luhrmann?s Moulin Rouge, which is pretty much a homage to the genre?what with the stylized acting, singing, dancing, sets and such. I then went to my local video store and rented Lagaan, which is an excellent movie on it?s own?not simply a "Bollywood" film. I suggest that anybody looking to see a couple Bollywood films for the first time rent Lagaan. In fact, I watched it with many of my friends and the majority of them enjoyed it immensely.

I enjoy more recent Bollywood releases, like Kutch Kutch Hota Hai, Devdas, Kabhie Kushi Kabhie Gham, more than the older titles, but there are some classics like Sholay and can withstand the test of time. What?s so interesting, to me, is how a typical American audience will reject this sort of film so vehemently, simply because it is so unlike anything we have over here. In my opinion, the majority of Americans approach movies with a mindset that is almost too "Western"?the Bollywood genre embraces emotion and entertainment, whereas most successful films in America rely on a sense of realism. This, in part, explains why critical feedback for Moulin Rouge was so divided. Some people "got it", others did not. I?m a big fan of that film and have watched many interviews with the director, and in these interviews he mentions a need to accept a sort of "heightened world." The key to Bollywood is just being able to accept the context without any sense of resignation?and many modern Bollywood directors today are making their films more and more accessible to younger, American audiences. Lagaan, for one, seems heavily influenced by western genres, and while traditional Bollywood conventions remain, the setting and songs fit very nicely into the storyline. In general, though, it?s best to think of Bollywood films as more "stylized" than "structured." Where American musicals get many of their conventions from the stage, Bollywood takes full advantage of the camera and cinematic techniques. What remains, then, is not a film that depends upon "realism" or "content" to be entertaining, but rather a film that relies on emotion itself. Many western viewers have a problem with the song-and-dance sequences, or stylized acting in Bollywood films. I believe that these conventions are an excellent way of expressing emotion through cinema, and work off of each other very effectively. These two conventions, when combined, do create that "heightened world" Baz Luhrmann was talking about. I find it very unfortunate and sad that some western viewers feel too uncomfortable or embarrassed to surrender to an experience that is so unfamiliar. Then again, Bollywood is a sort of acquired taste. Some people get it, others don?t. One thing is certain: I?d definitely say that anybody who is going to sit through a Bollywood film here is going to have to come with an open mind.

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Everybody should take the time and watch these movies. TCM?s decision to make all these Bollywood movies accessible to so many Americans is simply brilliant.

I have not been a fan of Bollywood for very long, but I do believe that Hindi popular cinema is perhaps the most vibrant, expressive, and entertaining form of cinema there is. I first took an interest in Bollywood after I saw Baz Luhrmann?s Moulin Rouge, which is pretty much a homage to the genre?what with the stylized acting, singing, dancing, sets and such. I then went to my local video store and rented Lagaan, which is an excellent movie on it?s own?not simply a "Bollywood" film. I suggest that anybody looking to see a couple Bollywood films for the first time rent Lagaan. In fact, I watched it with many of my friends and the majority of them enjoyed it immensely.

I enjoy more recent Bollywood releases, like Kutch Kutch Hota Hai, Devdas, Kabhie Kushi Kabhie Gham, more than the older titles, but there are some classics like Sholay and can withstand the test of time. What?s so interesting, to me, is how a typical American audience will reject this sort of film so vehemently, simply because it is so unlike anything we have over here.

In my opinion, the majority of Americans approach movies with a mindset that is almost too "Western"?the Bollywood genre embraces emotion and entertainment, whereas most successful films in America rely on a sense of realism. This, in part, explains why critical feedback for Moulin Rouge was so divided. Some people "got it", others did not. I?m a big fan of that film and have watched many interviews with the director, and in these interviews he mentions a need to accept a sort of "heightened world." The key to Bollywood is just being able to accept the context without any sense of resignation?and many modern Bollywood directors today are making their films more and more accessible to younger, American audiences. Lagaan, for one, seems heavily influenced by western genres, and while traditional Bollywood conventions remain, the setting and songs fit very nicely into the storyline. In general, though, it?s best to think of Bollywood films as more "stylized" than "structured." Where American musicals get many of their conventions from the stage, Bollywood takes full advantage of the camera and cinematic techniques. What remains, then, is not a film that depends upon "realism" or "content" to be entertaining, but rather a film that relies on emotion itself.

Many western viewers have a problem with the song-and-dance sequences, or stylized acting in Bollywood films. I believe that these conventions are an excellent way of expressing emotion through cinema, and work off of each other very effectively. These two conventions, when combined, do create that "heightened world" Baz Luhrmann was talking about.

I find it very unfortunate and sad that some western viewers feel too uncomfortable or embarrassed to surrender to an experience that is so unfamiliar. Then again, Bollywood is a sort of acquired taste. Some people get it, others don?t. One thing is certain: I?d definitely say that anybody who is going to sit through a Bollywood film here is going to have to come with an open mind.

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