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Bernie Sanders’s Climate Plan Is More Radical Than His Opponents’ — And More Likely to Succeed

 

".......... Sanders outlines an expansive system, building on the resolution introduced by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Ed Markey in April, that would generate publicly owned clean energy and 20 million new jobs, end fossil fuels imports and exports, revivify the social safety net, redress historical injustices like environmental racism, and make prolific investments toward decarbonization at home and abroad — among many, many other things. It would not only transition American society away from fossil fuels but renegotiate decades-old nostrums, championed by the right, about the respective roles of the government and the economy. ......

Outlining how the plan will be financed, it notes that he will get $3.085 trillion by making “the fossil fuel industry pay for their pollution, through litigation, fees, and taxes, and eliminating federal fossil fuel subsidies.”

“Most importantly,” he says, “we must build an unprecedented grassroots movement that is powerful enough to take them on, and win........

 

The upshot here is that Sanders’s Green New Deal plan offers an approach that couldn’t be more different than the climate push on the Hill a decade ago — and by abandoning that insiders-only strategy, it has a real shot at succeeding. ....

" The political tide can be turned over the next decade only by the creation of a climate-change politics that includes broad popular mobilization on the center left. That is what it will take to counter the recently jelled combination of free-market elite opposition and right-wing popular mobilization against global warming remedies. … In the meantime, liberals and friendly moderates need to build a populist anti-global warming movement on their own side of the political spectrum. "........

"... a handful of billionaires and their lobbyists and politicians are the reason we’re in this mess. If we’re going to make real progress on the crisis, I think people need to be told that truth, and need to get angry about it and know that if we get these folks out of the way, we can have a better world for everyone.”

https://theintercept.com/2019/08/22/bernie-sanders-climate-policy/

:unsure:

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Elegy for Bernie?

Not quite yet: Sanders 2020 poses a conundrum Democrats must solve

Can Bernie still win in 2020? Maybe not — but without his issues, his voters and his movement, Democrats are doomed....

"...He has dragged universal health insurance and a living wage and the crushing unfairness of student debt and the Green New Deal and the general rapaciousness of late-stage vulture capitalism into mainstream political discourse, against the vigorous pushback of nearly the entire elite class — and has made clear that most Americans agree with him, and not with them.

Furthermore, the always-dubious premise that Sanders’ supporters are overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly male has been exposed as a blatant falsehood....

 

.... Sanders also represents a wide range of policy positions that remain outside what many or most commentators and reporters view as responsible, mainstream politics — despite mounting evidence that actual voters do not share that view. It’s funny how the head-to-head polls that show Biden defeating Trump are seen as evidence of electability, while similar polls that show Sanders defeating Trump are seen as something else — snowflake-driven flukes .....

Bernie Sanders has built and nourished an important, likely transformative, political movement. He stands for critically important policies that the Democratic Party must engage, even though it conspicuously doesn’t want to.

He represents a rising progressive generation that it desperately needs

— but that also threatens the party’s governing assumptions and institutions on a fundamental level. Democrats almost certainly won’t nominate him, but they can’t possibly win without him.

Leading Democrats and their supporters in the media — guardians of a regular-order politics that no longer exists — keep hoping that if they close their eyes Bernie Sanders will go away

It’s not working."

https://www.salon.com/2019/08/25/elegy-for-bernie-not-quite-yet-sanders-2020-poses-a-conundrum-democrats-must-solve/

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Sanders previews plan to cancel all past-due medical debt

.....Sanders's plan would cancel $81 billion in existing past-due medical debt, repeal parts of the 2005 bankruptcy reform bill and ensure that unpaid medical bills do not impact one’s credit score. Sanders has hit the 2005 bill for eliminating "fundamental consumer protections," accusing it of making it difficult for Americans to pay back medical debt by imposing stringent means tests.

“In the United States of America, your financial life and future should not be destroyed because you or a member of your family gets sick,” Sanders said in a news release previewing his plan. .......

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/459518-sanders-previews-plan-to-cancel-all-past-due-medical-debt

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3 hours ago, mr6666 said:

Sanders previews plan to cancel all past-due medical debt

.....Sanders's plan would cancel $81 billion in existing past-due medical debt, repeal parts of the 2005 bankruptcy reform bill and ensure that unpaid medical bills do not impact one’s credit score. Sanders has hit the 2005 bill for eliminating "fundamental consumer protections," accusing it of making it difficult for Americans to pay back medical debt by imposing stringent means tests.

“In the United States of America, your financial life and future should not be destroyed because you or a member of your family gets sick,” Sanders said in a news release previewing his plan. .......

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/459518-sanders-previews-plan-to-cancel-all-past-due-medical-debt

My bet is that Republicans facing bankruptcy over health care bills will not go for this.

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36 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

My bet is that Republicans facing bankruptcy over health care bills will not go for this.

Well, they may not because they'll be worried about how this may benefit too many minority groups, like Progressive women, black Americans, Latino Americans, gay Americans mixed-race Americans, Muslim Americans, transgender Americans, Asian Americans,  Jewish Americans and legal and illegal immigrants-- just to name a few groups.

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17 hours ago, mr6666 said:

Sanders previews plan to cancel all past-due medical debt

.....Sanders's plan would cancel $81 billion in existing past-due medical debt, repeal parts of the 2005 bankruptcy reform bill and ensure that unpaid medical bills do not impact one’s credit score. Sanders has hit the 2005 bill for eliminating "fundamental consumer protections," accusing it of making it difficult for Americans to pay back medical debt by imposing stringent means tests.

“In the United States of America, your financial life and future should not be destroyed because you or a member of your family gets sick,” Sanders said in a news release previewing his plan. .......

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/459518-sanders-previews-plan-to-cancel-all-past-due-medical-debt

This is more desperate pandering to the far left.  It will never happen.

Of course, what is this $81 Billion in past due debt?  Is it debt that medical facilities, physicians, dentists and whoever else never really expects to be paid anyway?

Still no real method to pay for all his panderings.  

Polls aren't worth much, but the latest shows that a majority of Democrats do NOT want Medicare For All, but rather to build on the ACA to provide better care at lower costs.

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17 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

My bet is that Republicans facing bankruptcy over health care bills will not go for this.

As Cid notes this latest idea is a total joke since it would never see the light of day (even if Dems held a majority in all 3 branches),  and is just shameless pandering by Sanders in his attempt to stop the momentum of Warren.

 

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5 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

As Cid notes this latest idea is a total joke since it would never see the light of day (even if Dems held a majority in all 3 branches),  and is just shameless pandering by Sanders in his attempt to stop the momentum of Warren.

 

I guess if you say something that you really believe in that others might not agree with it is now shameless pandering.

I don't care one way or the other but this is probably something he believes in.  If it doesn't work for you, so be it.

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5 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

I guess if you say something that you really believe in that others might not agree with it is now shameless pandering.

I don't care one way or the other but this is probably something he believes in.  If it doesn't work for you, so be it.

If a politician knows there is ZERO chance their idea will see-the-light-of-day,  then yes,  it is shameless pandering to tell your sucker base that you're going to make it happen.     Its an empty promises.

At least Harris said she would use executive powers to make some of the changes she wants (mostly related to illegal immigrants),  that she knows Congress (mostly the Senate), would never pass.

And yes, Trump does all of this crap 100 times more than any Dem  (just in case anyone suspects folks like Cid and I don't know that).

   

 

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1 minute ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

If a politician knows there is ZERO chance their idea will see-the-light-of-day,  then yes,  it is shameless pandering to tell your sucker base that you're going to make it happen.     Its an empty promises.

At least Harris said she would use executive powers to make some of the changes she wants (mostly related to illegal immigrants),  that she knows Congress (mostly the Senate), would never pass.

And yes, Trump does all of this crap 100 times more than any Dem  (just in case anyone suspects folks like Cid and I don't know that).

   

 

I thought it was interesting and my comment was that I didn't think Republicans facing bankruptcy over health issues would go for it.  It's like the woman who said Obamacare saved her life but she voted for Trump and now her cancer is coming back but she doesn't regret her vote.  It certainly takes all kinds.

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1 minute ago, Bogie56 said:

I thought it was interesting and my comment was that I didn't think Republicans facing bankruptcy over health issues would go for it.  It's like the woman who said Obamacare saved her life but she voted for Trump and now her cancer is coming back but she doesn't regret her vote.  It certainly takes all kinds.

I hear you on that;  I can't explain why morons would continue to support Trump when the majority of what his admin does, doesn't make their life better.      

 

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29 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

I guess if you say something that you really believe in that others might not agree with it is now shameless pandering.

I don't care one way or the other but this is probably something he believes in.  If it doesn't work for you, so be it.

Nothing wrong with believing in something, but this cancelling $81 Billion in private debt is in addition to all the Medicare For All programs he previously put forth.  So yes, in this case he is pandering and a last desperate effort to fend off the others.

Doesn't matter if if works for me or not, it is still a really dumb idea to the vast majority of Americans.  The latest polls show that even Democrats are not that much for Medicare For All.  More importantly, the vast majority of VOTERS are not for it.  And they sure as hell aren't for blanket cancelling of debts.  Of course, Sanders plan is probably illegal anyway.  When has the Federal government cancelled private debt?

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Just now, TheCid said:

Of course, Sanders plan is probably illegal anyway.  When has the Federal government cancelled private debt?

Clearly it would be illegal for the Feds to cancel private debt.   So the real plan was to have the Feds buy-off this debt.    The same goes for student-loans from non-government sources;  The Feds can't cancel such debts.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheCid said:

Nothing wrong with believing in something, but this cancelling $81 Billion in private debt is in addition to all the Medicare For All programs he previously put forth.  So yes, in this case he is pandering and a last desperate effort to fend off the others.

Doesn't matter if if works for me or not, it is still a really dumb idea to the vast majority of Americans.  The latest polls show that even Democrats are not that much for Medicare For All.  More importantly, the vast majority of VOTERS are not for it.  And they sure as hell aren't for blanket cancelling of debts.  Of course, Sanders plan is probably illegal anyway.  When has the Federal government cancelled private debt?

Sort of a weird way of "pandering" - campaigning on something that most people do not support.

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26 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

Sort of a weird way of "pandering" - campaigning on something that most people do not support.

That's why he would lose B I G in the general election if he were able to get the nomination.  He is pandering to the people he thinks will vote in the Democratic primaries, not to the American voters.

Unfortunately one aspect of American politics is that it has become one of pandering to a base or group of voters rather than trying to appeal to the general population at large.  While this has always been somewhat true, it has gotten so much worse.  Trump is the epitome, but now too many Dems are following his path.

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My point is he is not "pandering" if it is something he truly believes in.  I don't think Sanders' motives are the same as Trump's at all.  Maybe they are out of touch and misguided but they are genuinely his ideals.  Now Trump's wall that Mexico was going to pay for was pandering all the way because I don't think Trump believed in it because I know he doesn't believe in ANYTHING but his own aggrandizement. 

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3 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

My point is he is not "pandering" if it is something he truly believes in.  

I don't think Sanders was "pandering" when he mentioned Medicare-for-All or Free-college since he has had those ideas for a while now (back when running against Clinton) and,  yea,  he truly believes in them.

My point about Sanders and pandering was only related to this release-of-private-debt.   I don't recall Sanders ever mentioning this before and as Cid pointed out it is likely to be illegal.     

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2 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

My point is he is not "pandering" if it is something he truly believes in.  I don't think Sanders' motives are the same as Trump's at all.  Maybe they are out of touch and misguided but they are genuinely his ideals.  Now Trump's wall that Mexico was going to pay for was pandering all the way because I don't think Trump believed in it because I know he doesn't believe in ANYTHING but his own aggrandizement. 

Trump may not have believed in the wall, but he wants it, especially after seeing how his base eats it up, and after someone told him "no". Trump can't handle people telling him no, so he's put a lot of effort into getting money allocated to the building of his wall. He sees it as part of his legacy, something that will be around long after he is, and we all know how much he likes to see his name on things. They'd barely replaced some old fencing when he had them put up a plaque with his name on it.

I recall some people saying repeatedly that Trump never wanted an actual wall, and that his supporters didn't want an actual wall, that it was all metaphorical for improved immigration enforcement. And as I said all along, no, they all want an actual wall. And that is the case, as the White House wouldn't continually go out of its way to tout "progress" on the wall if it was never intended to be built.

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3 hours ago, Bogie56 said:

I guess if you say something that you really believe in that others might not agree with it is now shameless pandering.

I don't care one way or the other but this is probably something he believes in.  If it doesn't work for you, so be it.

did he believe in giving the vote to Charles Manson in san quentin?

:P

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14 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

Trump may not have believed in the wall, but he wants it, especially after seeing how his base eats it up, and after someone told him "no". Trump can't handle people telling him no, so he's put a lot of effort into getting money allocated to the building of his wall. He sees it as part of his legacy, something that will be around long after he is, and we all know how much he likes to see his name on things. They'd barely replaced some old fencing when he had them put up a plaque with his name on it.

I recall some people saying repeatedly that Trump never wanted an actual wall, and that his supporters didn't want an actual wall, that it was all metaphorical for improved immigration enforcement. And as I said all along, no, they all want an actual wall. And that is the case, as the White House wouldn't continually go out of its way to tout "progress" on the wall if it was never intended to be built.

I agree.  It has morphed into a legacy issue.  While I think Trump is very capable of self-delusion I still don't believe that he really thinks it really necessary from a national security point of view.  At least not at its cost and what else could be done with that money for border security and immigration.

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9 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

did he believe in giving the vote to Charles Manson in san quentin?

:P

I think he was coming at the voter's rights issue from the slippery slope angle.  Right or wrong mind you.  Sort of the same when you say homosexuality can lead to beastiality or that buy-backs of automatic weapons will lead to a ban of all guns.

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It's irrelevant whether he genuinely believes it or he is just pandering to get people to vote for him. What he proposes will not be supported by voters and certainly not politicians in Washington DC.May as well campaign on installing world peace.

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44 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

I recall some people saying repeatedly that Trump never wanted an actual wall, and that his supporters didn't want an actual wall, that it was all metaphorical for improved immigration enforcement. And as I said all along, no, they all want an actual wall. And that is the case, as the White House wouldn't continually go out of its way to tout "progress" on the wall if it was never intended to be built.

You may also recall,  that I was one of those people.    I see now that I was mistaken;  I.e. a majority of Trump supporters really believe in an actual wall.    I should have never given these morons the benefit-of-the-doubt.

 

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Just now, jamesjazzguitar said:

You may also recall,  that I was one of those people.    I see now that I was mistaken;  I.e. a majority of Trump supporters really believe in an actual wall.    I should have never given these morons the benefit-of-the-doubt.

Yeah, I had a feeling that your belief was that no rational adult would believe in the efficacy of such a thing, and there can't be that many irrational people out there. Unfortunately, there apparently are.

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