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Bernie Sanders!


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13 hours ago, mr6666 said:

 

The best thing Bernie Sanders can do for the Democratic Party and America at this point is shut up until after November.

The major difference most people will see is that tax cuts for wealthy and corporations are just that.  Whereas not requiring people to repay loans is giving people money as loans and then not collecting it back.

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1 hour ago, ElCid said:

The best thing Bernie Sanders can do for the Democratic Party and America at this point is shut up until after November.

The major difference most people will see is that tax cuts for wealthy and corporations are just that.  Whereas not requiring people to repay loans is giving people money as loans and then not collecting it back.

I think Biden is considering forgiving 10K of debt, not the whole debt regardless of how high. I was an undergrad in the 1970s at a public college. My full load (16-18 hours) cost 250 dollars a semester the entire time I was an undergrad. I graduated with no debt. Nobody I knew at the time graduated with any debt. I'm OK with giving these students some relief, but the problem is that the states no longer subsidize college tuition, making state tuition as pricey as private tuition. 

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13 minutes ago, LsDoorMat said:

I think Biden is considering forgiving 10K of debt, not the whole debt regardless of how high. I was an undergrad in the 1970s at a public college. My full load (16-18 hours) cost 250 dollars a semester the entire time I was an undergrad. I graduated with no debt. Nobody I knew at the time graduated with any debt. I'm OK with giving these students some relief, but the problem is that the states no longer subsidize college tuition, making state tuition as pricey as private tuition. 

The price you paid, approx. adjusted for inflation, is $990.00 in 2022 dollars. 

The most popular image about this topic is a copy of someone's loan statement where it shows that the initial loan was for slightly over $70,000, that the former student had thus far paid $90,000, and that $103,000 was still owed. 

Here's a table I found of current college costs:

Annual Cost of College
Public Institutions Cost of Tuition Additional Expenses** Cost of Attendance
4-Year In-State $9,349 $16,138 $25,487
4-Year Out-of-State $27,023 $16,138 $43,161
2-Year In-State $3,377 $12,371 $15,748
Private Institutions Cost of Tuition Additional Expenses Cost of Attendance
4-Year Nonprofit $35,807 $17,410 $53,217
4-Year For-profit $14,957 $20,168 $35,125
2-Year Nonprofit $16,898 $17,121 $34,019
2-Year For-profit $15,333 $17,046 $32,379

 

**Additional expenses do not account for potential lost income nor student loan interest.

https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college

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2 minutes ago, LsDoorMat said:

I think Biden is considering forgiving 10K of debt, not the whole debt regardless of how high. I was an undergrad in the 1970s at a public college. My full load (16-18 hours) cost 250 dollars a semester the entire time I was an undergrad. I graduated with no debt. Nobody I knew at the time graduated with any debt. I'm OK with giving these students some relief, but the problem is that the states no longer subsidize college tuition, making state tuition as pricey as private tuition. 

Same here.  I went to college in the early to mid 80s.  My first semester's tuition and fees was about $300 (15 hours at $18/hour tuition and a $30 "facility" fee, whatever that may have been), but that was covered by a scholarship.  My textbooks cost more than tuition and fees!  The largest expense, by far, was room & board in the dorms.  Where I went to school, at that time, tuition was set by the state, and it varied by course level (frosh/soph classes were cheaper than junior/senior classes, which were cheaper than graduate level classes).  I think my tuition my last year was nearing $1000/semester.

Same school today has switched to a supposedly flat tuition and fees structure, if you take at least 12 hours per semester.  The cost is $4700 per semester for in-state residents.  It's about 3x for out-of-state students.  Then, there's a university-wide $90/credit hour fee (another $1300 for 15 hours), and a per credit hour technology fee that varies depending on the college offering  a particular course (ranges from $40/hr to $150/hr).  That adds another couple of thousand to the total.

You're looking at $50K, at least, for a 4 year program, at an average state institution.   Only a minority of families will be able to save that much money to send their kids to college.

I don't mind some kind of income-indexed debt relief (but not full forgiveness).  Student loan regulations/oversight needs to be strengthened.   Loan programs can be overly aggressive (I'm assuming the loan officials are paid, in part,  on some sort of commission basis?) and I've known students who have used loan money to take extravagant (for college students) overseas trips with their loan money that's supposed to be used for school.

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22 minutes ago, LsDoorMat said:

I think Biden is considering forgiving 10K of debt, not the whole debt regardless of how high. I was an undergrad in the 1970s at a public college. My full load (16-18 hours) cost 250 dollars a semester the entire time I was an undergrad. I graduated with no debt. Nobody I knew at the time graduated with any debt. I'm OK with giving these students some relief, but the problem is that the states no longer subsidize college tuition, making state tuition as pricey as private tuition. 

Personally I can agree with some amount of loan forgiveness and even greater amounts for those in public service.  However, will the voters see it that way?  My point is that Sanders needs to shut up because he is advocating the extremes that most voters will not support.

I was fortunate that when I went to college, my parents were able to pay my education costs and I worked some as well.  The VA paid for my graduate studies.

However, college costs were much lower back then even compared to income levels of the time.  As you note, states have pretty much abandoned support of public colleges.  BUT, the colleges today have far too many very expensive programs, activities, facilities and staff.

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This goes back, but in late 60's it cost $1,200 per 9 month year for me to go to college.  This included tuition, books, fees, haircuts, laundry, 21 meals per week, infirmary services.  In other words - everything except personal spending money.

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5 minutes ago, ElCid said:

Personally I can agree with some amount of loan forgiveness and even greater amounts for those in public service.  However, will the voters see it that way?  My point is that Sanders needs to shut up because he is advocating the extremes that most voters will not support.

I was fortunate that when I went to college, my parents were able to pay my education costs and I worked some as well.  The VA paid for my graduate studies.

However, college costs were much lower back then even compared to income levels of the time.  As you note, states have pretty much abandoned support of public colleges.  BUT, the colleges today have far too many very expensive programs, activities, facilities and staff.

And I get your point about Sanders. If Rowe V Wade is overturned as expected though, it will not go well for the GOP in the midterms. That and the fact that the GOP is taking their midterm victory for granted and nominating all kinds of human oddities to run for office will hurt them. You need candidates who act and sound reasonable if you want to win elections. 

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2 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

And I get your point about Sanders. If Rowe V Wade is overturned as expected though, it will not go well for the GOP in the midterms. That and the fact that the GOP is taking their midterm victory for granted and nominating all kinds of human oddities to run for office will hurt them. You need candidates who act and sound reasonable if you want to win elections. 

You are more optimistic than I am.  I think between voter suppression, gerrymandering and better messaging (although usually false), the GOP will win back the House and probably the Senate.

I do not see Roe v. Wade as being a big issue in the mid-terms.

You can look at who is in the House and Senate now and lots of them on both sides are not "reasonable."  A legacy of Reagan, Trump, Tea Party, et. al. is the polarization of politics in America.  The Dems have also put forward a few extremists as well.

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1 hour ago, ElCid said:

You are more optimistic than I am.  I think between voter suppression, gerrymandering and better messaging (although usually false), the GOP will win back the House and probably the Senate.

I do not see Roe v. Wade as being a big issue in the mid-terms.

You can look at who is in the House and Senate now and lots of them on both sides are not "reasonable."  A legacy of Reagan, Trump, Tea Party, et. al. is the polarization of politics in America.  The Dems have also put forward a few extremists as well.

And you may be right. But then you have things like this little news item:

Today, former president Donald Trump is headed to Nebraska, where he is slated to appear at a rally with Republican gubernatorial hopeful Charles Herbster, a longtime political ally who has been accused of sexually assaulting several women. Trump’s appearance with Herbster underscores the risky play Trump is making by trying to be a kingmaker in GOP primaries. Herbster, who has denied the allegations, is only one of several Trump-endorsed candidates in close primaries on the ballot next month.

Of course there's always the danger that somebody like this could actually be elected. 

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4 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

And you may be right. But then you have things like this little news item:

Today, former president Donald Trump is headed to Nebraska, where he is slated to appear at a rally with Republican gubernatorial hopeful Charles Herbster, a longtime political ally who has been accused of sexually assaulting several women. Trump’s appearance with Herbster underscores the risky play Trump is making by trying to be a kingmaker in GOP primaries. Herbster, who has denied the allegations, is only one of several Trump-endorsed candidates in close primaries on the ballot next month.

Of course there's always the danger that somebody like this could actually be elected. 

The problem is in the House districts, Senate races and other state races where the Republican is almost assured of winning in Nov.  

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