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Strange Truths


CaveGirl
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As one who loves learning strange facts about films, I am sure not many here will be nescient of any that I impart on this TCM board. But that still will not keep me from trying for in my quest I hope that others will share with me oddities about films they have learned during their sojourn watching and reading about films that I may become even more filled to the brim with such knowledge.

 

So, I'll start. I doubt that anyone here is not aware that the song "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" which was written by Bacharach and David and sung by the incomparable Gene Pitney, is nowhere to be heard in the actual film. So the story goes, John Ford didn't like the song and refused to put it in the film so if you have been waiting for it while watching Jimmy Stewart, give up now!

 

Anyone who already knew that little bit of trivia, probably knows lots more than I, so please share anything weird about film lore that you have garnered in your filmic travels. And thanks in advance!

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Yes, I expected the song to be in The Man Who Shot liberty Valance as well.

 

I remember that when I saw Dr. Zhivago for the first time, I kept expecting Lara's Theme  to be sung.  But the lyrics were added later.

 

I have the music book 100 Years, 100 songs, and there are several songs where the lyrics that appear in the film are different than in the movie.

 

High Noon is one of them.:

 

The film lyrics:

The Noon day train will bring Frank Miller

If I'm a man I must be brave,

and I must face that deadly killer....

 

Do not forsake me oh, my darling

You made that promise when we wed

Do not forsake me oh my darling.

Although you're grieving

I can't be leaving

Until I shoot Frank Miller dead.

 

The sheet music:

I do not know what fate awaits me

I only know I must be brave

And I must face  a deadly killer...

 

Do not forsake me oh, my darling

You made a promise as a bride

Do not forsake me oh, my darling

Although you're grieving

Don't think of leaving

Not when I need you by my side.

 

But the largest difference is from Snow White and the seven Dwarfs.  The song "Someday My Prince Will Come" bears no resemblance in the lyrics.

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Yes, I expected the song to be in The Man Who Shot liberty Valance as well.

 

I remember that when I saw Dr. Zhivago for the first time, I kept expecting Lara's Theme  to be sung.  But the lyrics were added later.

 

I have the music book 100 Years, 100 songs, and there are several songs where the lyrics that appear in the film are different than in the movie.

 

High Noon is one of them.:

 

The film lyrics:

The Noon day train will bring Frank Miller

If I'm a man I must be brave,

and I must face that deadly killer....

 

Do not forsake me oh, my darling

You made that promise when we wed

Do not forsake me oh my darling.

Although you're grieving

I can't be leaving

Until I shoot Frank Miller dead.

 

The sheet music:

I do not know what fate awaits me

I only know I must be brave

And I must face  a deadly killer...

 

Do not forsake me oh, my darling

You made a promise as a bride

Do not forsake me oh, my darling

Although you're grieving

Don't think of leaving

Not when I need you by my side.

 

But the largest difference is from Snow White and the seven Dwarfs.  The song "Someday My Prince Will Come" bears no resemblance in the lyrics.

Thanks, GPF, that's very interesting about HN.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the song SMPWC. Do you mean the lyrics in the film are different from your songbook. I actually have the film soundtrack [don't ask!] and will have to listen to it. What are the main differences and was it written at the same time the film came out?

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Yes.  That is what I mean, CaveGirl.

 

There is no way I would try to type out all the lyrics in the sheet music that are different as it seems that the song in the movie takes place at a DIFFERENT TIME than the sheet music suggests.   The sheet music suggests that she has already met the Prince and that he has gone off and left and she wants him to come back.

 

High Noon's lyrics, on the contrary, are just a change in focus.  The story is the same in the song even though Miller is named and it is either Cooper who should not leave or Grace Kelly who should not leave.

 

Thanks, GPF, that's very interesting about HN.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the song SMPWC. Do you mean the lyrics in the film are different from your songbook. I actually have the film soundtrack [don't ask!] and will have to listen to it. What are the main diffeces and was it written at the same time the film came out?

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I also have a book of sheet music from Disney songs as well as a lot of Disney Vinyl Albums.

 

Edit: I meant to add that I could look that book up to see if the lyrics were the same or different.

 

I looked up the book and  the lyrics to Some day My Prince Will Come is the same as in the movie.

Edited by GregoryPeckfan
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There seem to be some different lyrics to "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" floating around. There's an oft-aired between-movies featurette on TCM that discusses the evolution of the lyrics prior to Judy Garland recording it for the film, but that's not what I'm talking about. Growing up, the only way way I ever heard it sung was with the line "Hang a shining star upon the highest bough" following the line "If the fates allow", but that's not how it's sung in the movie. In the movie, it's "If the fates allow/Until then, we'll have to muddle through somehow," and since seeing the movie for the first time maybe 15 years ago, I've heard other versions of the song with those lyrics.

 

My guess is sometime between 1944 and the first time I ever heard the song in the early '70s someone decided the song needed to be "Christianed up" a little bit, and changed a line so we could get a reference to the star on the Christmas tree, a symbol of Jesus.

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In the "Games And Trivia" forum a few days ago, April 16th, I posted a question about this in the "Musicals On Tap" thread.  After a poster named Azure answered it, I explained the situation.  Here it is:

 

 

Posted 16 April 2016 - 07:33 PM

Very good, Azure.  If you remember in the 1944 movie, which was just shown on TCM last night, the Smith family was unhappy about the prospect of leaving St Louis for New York.  Margaret O'Brien is very distraught.  Judy Garland consoles her with the song. Around 1957, Frank Sinatra was about to record the song for an album called "The Joy Of Christmas".  He thought that there was nothing joyous about the line "We'll have to muddle through somehow", so he asked the original lyricist, Hugh Martin, to change it.  Apparently, when Frank asks, people don't say no, so Martin changed the line.  That became the standard line for all subsequent recordings.  In "The Monuments Men", in a scene in a camp in the Ardennes Forest in December 1944, Bill Murray receives a phonograph record from home.  While he takes a shower, Bob Balaban plays the record over the camp's loudspeaker.  It contains the line "Hang a shining star upon the highest bough".  When I saw the movie in a theater, I knew immediately that it was a goof on the part of the producers.  I wanted to tell the others in the theater, but I stayed quiet.  George Clooney starred and he also directed the picture.  He was also one of the screenwriters and one of the producers.  His aunt, Rosemary, had recorded the song with the new line, although it was not her recording that was used in the movie.  Apparently she never told him or her brother Nick, who was in the movie playing George many years later as an old man, that the line had been changed.

 

Here's Judy with Margaret:

 

 

 

Now, "Hang a shining star upon the highest bough" has become the standard line, but I understand that when Judy Garland would sing the song in concerts, she still used the original line "We'll have to muddle through somehow".  I hope that answers your question, Sewhite2000.

 

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I have a feeling that what you were attempting with this thread was NOT a thread about movie songs and/or movie song lyric changes.  Too bad that many in here can't really comprehend nor keep focus......but I digress(too)

 

For instance, much of what you seem to be looking for are stories and/or tales that while long believed to be true, turned out to just be "urban legend".  But they CAN be interesting also.

 

One I liked was supposed to have happened during the shooting of CASABLANCA.  There's a scene in which there's a knock at the door of Rick's cafe, and Bogey opens the door, and Claude Rains rushes in.

 

Director Michael Curtiz initially didn't like the first take, and asked Rains to enter more quickly.  After several takes in which Curtiz STIILL wantd Rains to enter MORE quickly, the exasperated Rains said he'd give it one last try.  After a few minutes, Curtiz again yelled "Action!" and awaited yet another knock at the door.  When the knock came and Bogart opened the door, in flew Rains on a fast moving BICYCLE!

 

How he manged to set it up without Curtiz catching on still mystifies me, considering IF it's all true!

 

Sepiatone

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I have a feeling that what you were attempting with this thread was NOT a thread about movie songs and/or movie song lyric changes.  Too bad that many in here can't really comprehend nor keep focus......but I digress(too)

 

For instance, much of what you seem to be looking for are stories and/or tales that while long believed to be true, turned out to just be "urban legend".  But they CAN be interesting also.

 

One I liked was supposed to have happened during the shooting of CASABLANCA.  There's a scene in which there's a knock at the door of Rick's cafe, and Bogey opens the door, and Claude Rains rushes in.

 

Director Michael Curtiz initially didn't like the first take, and asked Rains to enter more quickly.  After several takes in which Curtiz STIILL wantd Rains to enter MORE quickly, the exasperated Rains said he'd give it one last try.  After a few minutes, Curtiz again yelled "Action!" and awaited yet another knock at the door.  When the knock came and Bogart opened the door, in flew Rains on a fast moving BICYCLE!

 

How he manged to set it up without Curtiz catching on still mystifies me, considering IF it's all true!

 

Sepiatone

Yes, somehow CaveGirl and I got started on music because we love music.

 

All these music examples do fit, however, Sepia. And I think they are good entries.

 

Another music entry is that composer Jerome Kern missed the sailing of doomed Luisitania by ten minutes because he forgot his ticket and had to back home and get it.  So he did not get suck.

 

But for some more non-music strange truths:

 

Paul Newman got the role in Somebody Up There likes Me because James Dean died.

 

Fred McMurray did not want to be in The Apartment.  But Paul Douglas died and Billy Wilder asked him to do it.

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...But for some more non-music strange truths:

 

Paul Newman got the role in Somebody Up There likes Me because James Dean died.

 

 

And Alec Guinness would claim he told Dean that he'd die in his newly purchased Porsche 550 Spyder within a week's time.

 

(...and strangely enough, Guinness' prediction turned out to be true)

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There seem to be some different lyrics to "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" floating around. There's an oft-aired between-movies featurette on TCM that discusses the evolution of the lyrics prior to Judy Garland recording it for the film, but that's not what I'm talking about. Growing up, the only way way I ever heard it sung was with the line "Hang a shining star upon the highest bough" following the line "If the fates allow", but that's not how it's sung in the movie. In the movie, it's "If the fates allow/Until then, we'll have to muddle through somehow," and since seeing the movie for the first time maybe 15 years ago, I've heard other versions of the song with those lyrics.

 

My guess is sometime between 1944 and the first time I ever heard the song in the early '70s someone decided the song needed to be "Christianed up" a little bit, and changed a line so we could get a reference to the star on the Christmas tree, a symbol of Jesus.

Interesting, SE! As many times as I've seen the film I never noticed that. 

 

I'm sure I like the movie version best though, thanks!

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I have a feeling that what you were attempting with this thread was NOT a thread about movie songs and/or movie song lyric changes.  Too bad that many in here can't really comprehend nor keep focus......but I digress(too)

 

For instance, much of what you seem to be looking for are stories and/or tales that while long believed to be true, turned out to just be "urban legend".  But they CAN be interesting also.

 

One I liked was supposed to have happened during the shooting of CASABLANCA.  There's a scene in which there's a knock at the door of Rick's cafe, and Bogey opens the door, and Claude Rains rushes in.

 

Director Michael Curtiz initially didn't like the first take, and asked Rains to enter more quickly.  After several takes in which Curtiz STIILL wantd Rains to enter MORE quickly, the exasperated Rains said he'd give it one last try.  After a few minutes, Curtiz again yelled "Action!" and awaited yet another knock at the door.  When the knock came and Bogart opened the door, in flew Rains on a fast moving BICYCLE!

 

How he manged to set it up without Curtiz catching on still mystifies me, considering IF it's all true!

 

Sepiatone

Well, no Sepia not really looking for corrections to urban legends though that would be okay too.

 

Just offbeat facts about films in any avenue that most people don't know about. Your submission definitely fit the bill though and thanks!

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And Alec Guinness would claim he told Dean that he'd die in his newly purchased Porsche 550 Spyder within a week's time.

 

(...and strangely enough, Guinness' prediction turned out to be true)

Of course I knew about the replacement by Newman for Dean but did not know that Guinness told Dean he'd die soon.

 

Good one, Dargo!

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Thanks for the info, Miles! Now I know ... the rest of the story. Good .. day! (Sorry, went into Paul Harvey mode)

 

I saw MONUMENTS MEN, and I remember that scene, but I guess I wasn't paying attention to the lyrics, because that anachronism slipped past me.

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Well, no Sepia not really looking for corrections to urban legends though that would be okay too.

 

Just offbeat facts about films in any avenue that most people don't know about. Your submission definitely fit the bill though and thanks!

Thanks for clarifying CaveGirl that you have a much broader mind in your posts and that if people want to talk about music in movies that is okay, too.

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Thanks for the info, Miles! Now I know ... the rest of the story. Good .. day! (Sorry, went into Paul Harvey mode)

 

I saw MONUMENTS MEN, and I remember that scene, but I guess I wasn't paying attention to the lyrics, because that anachronism slipped past me.

I have both Sinatra's versions: recorded the movie version lyrics to "Have Yourself a Merry little Christmas" and the newer version.

It is one of my favourite Christmas songs.

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So, I'll start. I doubt that anyone here is not aware that the song "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" which was written by Bacharach and David and sung by the incomparable Gene Pitney, is nowhere to be heard in the actual film. So the story goes, John Ford didn't like the song and refused to put it in the film so if you have been waiting for it while watching Jimmy Stewart, give up now!

I remember the first time I watched Autumn Leaves, and the opening theme wasn't overwrought piano music, but a Nat King Cole song.

 

Likewise, Percy Faith didn't do the music in the movie A Summer Place. (The music is by Max Steiner.)

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Well, no Sepia not really looking for corrections to urban legends though that would be okay too.

 

Just offbeat facts about films in any avenue that most people don't know about. Your submission definitely fit the bill though and thanks!

AKK!

 

I really NEVER said anything about "corrections to urban legends".  Only that many of the "fun facts" many of us hear or heard about what happened in movies turn out to BE just urban legends.  But I can't really say which ones are which.

 

And I'm glad you liked my entry.  I'm hoping to see more of that sort of thing in here.  :)

 

Sepiatone

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Yes, somehow CaveGirl and I got started on music because we love music.

 

All these music examples do fit, however, Sepia. And I think they are good entries.

 

Another music entry is that composer Jerome Kern missed the sailing of doomed Luisitania by ten minutes because he forgot his ticket and had to back home and get it.  So he did not get suck.

 

But for some more non-music strange truths:

 

Paul Newman got the role in Somebody Up There likes Me because James Dean died.

 

Fred McMurray did not want to be in The Apartment.  But Paul Douglas died and Billy Wilder asked him to do it.

 

Fred was great. When someone starts a thread “Greatest Slimeball Ever?” I may nominate him. Beauttiful modulated performance. Paul probably would have been okay but I worry he might have been too cardboard-y.

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Fred was great. When someone starts a thread “Greatest Slimeball Ever?” I may nominate him. Beauttiful modulated performance. Paul probably would have been okay but I worry he might have been too cardboard-y.

 

Fred did a fine job of acting in The Apartment but can one say the character he played is even in the running for greatest slime ball ever?

 

But what did he do that was really so bad?   All he did was what many men in his position were doing at the time; cheating on his wife with a younger women and placing his needs above those of the women in his life as well as using his power as an executive against underlings.      

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Fred did a fine job of acting in The Apartment but can one say the character he played is even in the running for greatest slime ball ever?

 

But what did he do that was really so bad?   All he did was what many men in his position were doing at the time; cheating on his wife with a younger women and placing his needs above those of the women in his life as well as using his power as an executive against underlings.      

 

The role conforms with a certain definition of “slime.” Usually older guy preying on younger women, usually moneyed and sophisticated, which he pulls off quite well. Within that scope, he doesn’t necessarily have to be “that bad” to be considered slime. How common it is is besides the point. It is a type of role that is ubiquitous and Fred is exquisitely adept at it here ... 

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The role conforms with a certain definition of “slime.” Usually older guy preying on younger women, usually moneyed and sophisticated, which he pulls off quite well. Within that scope, he doesn’t necessarily have to be “that bad” to be considered slime. How common it is is besides the point. It is a type of role that is ubiquitous and Fred is exquisitely adept at it here ... 

 

I agree the character is slime.    No question about that, but he wasn't in the running for greatest slime ball ever.

 

I.e. he was just a run of the mill slime ball.   :D

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Fred did a fine job of acting in The Apartment but can one say the character he played is even in the running for greatest slime ball ever?

 

But what did he do that was really so bad?   All he did was what many men in his position were doing at the time; cheating on his wife with a younger women and placing his needs above those of the women in his life as well as using his power as an executive against underlings.      

The acting was fabulous.

 

I am not talking about Fred the man.  But people who loved Disney movies wanted him to bee Disney-friendly.

 

The fact is, he did not give a damn about the fact that Shirley tried to kill herself and wanted to give her 100 bucks for Christmas.  He is the kind of man who makes me wish I were a lesbian.

 

I feel the need to point out that this is a satire thread, however.   Remember I was responding to Limey's comment.  Remember too that most people in this film need pitchforking.

 

The fact that everyone might do it does not mean that it is okay.

 

 

And remember too that one of my nominees was the weather network.

 

 

EDIT: I SEE THIS I IN STRANGE TRUTHS INSTEAD OF THE PITCHFORK.  HAS THE PITCHFORK THREAD BEEN DELETED?

Edited by ColumboFan
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The acting was fabulous.

 

I am not talking about Fred the man.  But people who loved Disney movies wanted him to bee Disney-friendly.

 

The fact is, he did not give a damn about the fact that Shirley tried to kill herself and wanted to give her 100 bucks for Christmas.  He is the kind of man who makes me wish I were a lesbian.

 

I feel the need to point out that this is a satire thread, however.   Remember I was responding to Limey's comment.  Remember too that most people in this film need pitchforking.

 

The fact that everyone might do it does not mean that it is okay.

 

 

And remember too that one of my nominees was the weather network.

 

 

EDIT: I SEE THIS I IN STRANGE TRUTHS INSTEAD OF THE PITCHFORK.  HAS THE PITCHFORK THREAD BEEN DELETED?

 

Fred was in more Disney movies as a good guy AFTER The Apartment was made than BEFORE it was made.  Therefore doing the film didn't hurt his career as far as I can tell.

 

As for the character in the film;    Remember that this is not a real person but just a fictional character. 

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