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I Saw A Deadhead Sticker on a Cadillac-- Don't Look Back


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In general, I don't like Cole's style. I like Sinatra , Echstine, and Tony Bennett a lot better among male vocalists. I find Cole similar to Johnny Mathis, and like them about equally.

 

I agree with you that Cole's later (post-40s) style is similar to Mathis and I don't like that style much either.

 

That is why I only listen to Cole's 40s trio work;  like I said one still gets that smooth sounding voice but in a jazz trio setting (and yea, I have to have a ripping sweet sounding guitar solo!). 

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I agree with you that Cole's later (post-40s) style is similar to Mathis and I don't like that style much either.

 

That is why I only listen to Cole's 40s trio work;  like I said one still gets that smooth sounding voice but in a jazz trio setting (and yea, I have to have a ripping sweet sounding guitar solo!). 

I think Eckstine may be the most underrated singer ever, male or female. He has been largely forgotten. Without Eckstine, there would have been no Sarah Vaughan. The inimitable Mr. B.

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I find NO similarity between Cole and Mathis.  Maybe in the style of SONGS they did, but not in delivery. 

 

But back to James:

 

I like both Cole's late '40's AND post-'40's stuff.  But one of my prized possessions is a recording I found( on a CD) of Nat singing "The Christmas Song"  by Nat with the trio.

 

And +1,000 on Oscar Moore.  He IS an underrated guitarist,  AND way ahead of his time.  Much like Howard Roberts was.  That is,   underrated except by other guitarists.  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

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I find NO similarity between Cole and Mathis. Maybe in the style of SONGS they did, but not in delivery.

 

But back to James:

 

I like both Cole's late '40's AND post-'40's stuff. But one of my prized possessions is a recording I found( on a CD) of Nat singing "The Christmas Song" by Nat with the trio.

 

And +1,000 on Oscar Moore. He IS an underrated guitarist, AND way ahead of his time. Much like Howard Roberts was. That is, underrated except by other guitarists. ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

I gotta completely disagree - - Mathis copies very much-- or I should say maybe it's a natural inclination-- the style of Nat King Cole. The two were close friends and I believe that it was something that was conscious on Mathis' part.

 

My mother had a whole collection of all those Nat King Cole Trio 78's.

 

I must have listened to a half dozen of them before I ran to her and I said there's something terribly wrong with these records-- I can't hear Nat King Cole singing.LOL

 

"Straighten Up and Fly Right" was her favorite Nat King Cole song; she really thought that was a good example of his style.

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In general, I don't like Cole's style. I like Sinatra , Echstine, and Tony Bennett a lot better among male vocalists. I find Cole similar to Johnny Mathis, and like them about equally.

 

In general I think that Sinatra's the best all-around singer in American pop music.

 

I've never cared much for Tony Bennett's singing style. But I have to admit his early records that I had in the mid- 1950s displayed a fantastic voice and range, which apparently he lost later in the 60's and 70's due to cocaine addiction.

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I gotta completely disagree - - Mathis copies very much-- or I should say maybe it's a natural inclination-- the style of Nat King Cole. The two were close friends and I believe that it was something that was conscious on Mathis' part.

 

My mother had a whole collection of all those Nat King Cole Trio 78's.

 

I must have listened to a half dozen of them before I ran to her and I said there's something terribly wrong with these records-- I can't hear Nat King Cole singing.LOL

 

"Straighten Up and Fly Right" was her favorite Nat King Cole song; she really thought that was a good example of his style.

 

Your mom had great taste.   I love Straighten Up and Fly Right and this 1943 song is a great example of the Trio style which is jazz music and not pop like what Mathis was doing a decade or so later  (and also what Nat mostly did in the 50s). 

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I like both Cole and Mathis.  They're BOTH good.  But to me different in that Cole to me, sounds smoother and more natural.  Mathis sounds as if he's had some training.  Not that he HAS mind you, it just sounds like it to me.

 

Plus, you must admit each had their own SOUND, despite what might be a similar STYLE, insomuch as I've never heard ANYONE  who, while listening to a recording of Mathis say, "That's Nat King Cole, isn't it?"  Or vice-versa.

 

Y'all are beginning to appear to be trying to "one up" each other with your self proclaimed "expertise" and dropping names like rain.

 

We like who we like for reasons as varied as the people giving opinions.  Liking ONE doesn't neccesarily mean the other one sucks, just that one appeals more to someone for reasons of some personal nature.  And those people may not even KNOW what THEY might be.

 

Just like there are some who might "split a gut" laughing at some joke that someone else might just sit there bland faced after hearing it too.

 

Sepiatone

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I like both Cole and Mathis.  They're BOTH good.  But to me different in that Cole to me, sounds smoother and more natural.  Mathis sounds as if he's had some training.  Not that he HAS mind you, it just sounds like it to me.

 

Plus, you must admit each had their own SOUND, despite what might be a similar STYLE, insomuch as I've never heard ANYONE  who, while listening to a recording of Mathis say, "That's Nat King Cole, isn't it?"  Or vice-versa.

 

Y'all are beginning to appear to be trying to "one up" each other with your self proclaimed "expertise" and dropping names like rain.

 

We like who we like for reasons as varied as the people giving opinions.  Liking ONE doesn't neccesarily mean the other one sucks, just that one appeals more to someone for reasons of some personal nature.  And those people may not even KNOW what THEY might be.

 

Just like there are some who might "split a gut" laughing at some joke that someone else might just sit there bland faced after hearing it too.

 

Sepiatone

I don't claim expertise, but I've recently been listening to multiple versions of the same songs back-to-back by these different artists. That gives me a unique insight into the distinctions between the artists. Of all these legendary artists the one with the least "gimmicky" style was Ella Fitzgerald. She had a completely natural sound.

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In general I think that Sinatra's the best all-around singer in American pop music.

 

I've never cared much for Tony Bennett's singing style. But I have to admit his early records that I had in the mid- 1950s displayed a fantastic voice and range, which apparently he lost later in the 60's and 70's due to cocaine addiction.

Sinatra was the best--no question.

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I gotta completely disagree - - Mathis copies very much-- or I should say maybe it's a natural inclination-- the style of Nat King Cole. The two were close friends and I believe that it was something that was conscious on Mathis' part.

 

My mother had a whole collection of all those Nat King Cole Trio 78's.

 

I must have listened to a half dozen of them before I ran to her and I said there's something terribly wrong with these records-- I can't hear Nat King Cole singing.LOL

 

"Straighten Up and Fly Right" was her favorite Nat King Cole song; she really thought that was a good example of his style.

My second favorite song by Cole is "Somewhere Along the Way".

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My second favorite song by Cole is "Somewhere Along the Way".

 

I just listened to that song.   I don't see how you can claim that the style of that song as well as the singing is NOT very similar to what Mathis did (i.e. what Mathis learned from listening to Nat songs like that one). 

 

Anyhow,  just not my cup of tea with the strings, and all of that cuteness.    I like my Nat with boogie and jive.

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I

 

I just listened to that song.   I don't see how you can claim that the style of that song as well as the singing is NOT very similar to what Mathis did (i.e. what Mathis learned from listening to Nat songs like that one). 

 

Anyhow,  just not my cup of tea with the strings, and all of that cuteness.    I like my Nat with boogie and jive.

I'm missing you. I'm the one that said that Cole and Mathis were similar.

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I just listened to that song. I don't see how you can claim that the style of that song as well as the singing is NOT very similar to what Mathis did (i.e. what Mathis learned from listening to Nat songs like that one).

 

Anyhow, just not my cup of tea with the strings, and all of that cuteness. I like my Nat with boogie and jive.

 

Nat may have been the first black artist who was accepted by white audiences, who had the courage not to do the stereotypical expectation of Boogie and Jive.

 

Nat presented himself in much the same way as Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, or Perry Como.

 

I remember Nat King Cole's TV show very well. It was a great musical variety program; in my opinion much better than what Perry Como was doing.

 

NBC said they had to cancel it because they could not find a permanent sponsor.

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Nat may have been the first black artist who was accepted by white audiences, who had the courage not to do the stereotypical expectation of Boogie and Jive.

 

Nat presented himself in much the same way as Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, or Perry Como.

 

I remember Nat King Cole's TV show very well. It was a great musical variety program; in my opinion much better than what Perry Como was doing.

 

NBC said they had to cancel it because they could not find a permanent sponsor.

 

Interesting POV.    I'm not sure why Nat changed the style of his music to be more like white artist but I wish he didn't.

 

To me his trio 40s style was unique and the best trio music ever made.   Yea, ever,  IMO as a jazz musician.   The music had great rhythm (without the need for drums),  fantastic improvisation (solos),  and of course the singing (but Nat but also the other two as back-up vocals). 

 

As for the Nat show;  Yea,  sadly that was canceled due to racism (i.e. sponsor where threated by white NBC viewers not to support the show).    

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Interesting POV. I'm not sure why Nat changed the style of his music to be more like white artist but I wish he didn't.

 

To me his trio 40s style was unique and the best trio music ever made. Yea, ever, IMO as a jazz musician. The music had great rhythm (without the need for drums), fantastic improvisation (solos), and of course the singing (but Nat but also the other two as back-up vocals).

 

As for the Nat show; Yea, sadly that was canceled due to racism (i.e. sponsor where threated by white NBC viewers not to support the show).

 

I would not say that Nat changed his style to sound like white people - - Nat simply evolved his style to go where he wanted to go as an artist-- with everything that he had as a person.

 

I was privileged to see Sammy Davis jr.'s last concert tour in Kansas City. He was another black artist who was allowed to go where he wanted to go and to throw off stereotypes.

 

After the war, he was doing a lot of imitations of Hollywood movie actors like James Cagney and Humphrey Bogart. Many people said he didn't have the right to imitate white people because he was not white - - he continued anyway.

 

Sammy was probably the second black man to have his own variety show on television.

 

I wouldn't say Sammy's singing style is white; it's simply an American singing style where he brings to the table what he has learned from all American music.

 

I remember in the audience that night there were a number of women who had their old 33 & 1/3 Sammy Davis jr. albums from the 1950s. He signed them during the concert.

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I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to all for my abrasive comment (the "expertise" bit) in my post down there.  It was one of those mornings.  Or possibly I was still seething over something my sister in law said and did the night before.  It was TOTALLY unfair and untoward for me to take it out on all YOU good folks.  I'm truly hangdog about it.

 

As for the matter at hand, it matters not to me who sings in whatever style or such.  I like a song or not for a variety of different reasons.  Genre doesn't matter.  I MIGHT like someone's version of a song better than a version someone ELSE might prefer, but It doesn't mean I think that person has no taste, it's just what appeals to THEM, and that's fine.  My Grandmother used to say, "No ONE MAN  should be the yardstick by which all others should be measured."  And  that goes for ME as well.

 

 

Sepiatone.

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I would not say that Nat changed his style to sound like white people - - Nat simply evolved his style to go where he wanted to go as an artist-- with everything that he had as a person.

 

I was privileged to see Sammy Davis jr.'s last concert tour in Kansas City. He was another black artist who was allowed to go where he wanted to go and to throw off stereotypes.

 

After the war, he was doing a lot of imitations of Hollywood movie actors like James Cagney and Humphrey Bogart. Many people said he didn't have the right to imitate white people because he was not white - - he continued anyway.

 

Sammy was probably the second black man to have his own variety show on television.

 

I wouldn't say Sammy's singing style is white; it's simply an American singing style where he brings to the table what he has learned from all American music.

 

I remember in the audience that night there were a number of women who had their old 33 & 1/3 Sammy Davis jr. albums from the 1950s. He signed them during the concert.

Sammy also did a great job on a lot of songs------"Hey There", "Who can I Turn to", etc.

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I just finished an excellent book, Petty: The Biography, by Warren Zanes. It's the story of the life and career of Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers. They were local boys, most of them from nearby Gainesville, but I didn't realize how close they got. Apparently in the early 70's , Petty's early, pre-Heartbreakers, band held a residency at a bar here in Lake City for a couple of months. I recall the place (it's been gone for decades now), but I never saw them there. It was more of a country bar.

 

Anyway, I bring the book up here because I was surprised to learn that in the early 80's, Heartbreakers lead guitarist Mike Campbell, Petty's closest collaborator in the group, decided to try writing some songs. He came up with one that he thought sounded like it had promise, so he approached Petty with it for the next album. Petty gave it a listen, then turned him down. Campbell was disappointed, but a producer friend put him in touch with another artist who did record the song. The artist was Don Henley, and the song was "The Boys of Summer", which went on to be one of the biggest singles of the year, as well as the source of this thread's title. According to the book, Tom Petty would frown every time the song came on the radio, which was often, and he never turned down Campbell again!

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Yeah, the music AND movie biz are rife with those kind of stories.  One of my favorites.....

 

Bob Dylan first approached VANGUARD records about a possible record deal.  Vanguard was well known to feature folk singers at the time, like Joan Baez.   The exec who makes those decisions turned him down as not being "sellable".  A couple of years later, the exec ran across the memo of his refusal and reportedly went out and got drunk.

 

Not a big Petty fan here, but I liked that story. 

 

 

Sepiatone

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Yeah, the music AND movie biz are rife with those kind of stories.  One of my favorites.....

 

Bob Dylan first approached VANGUARD records about a possible record deal.  Vanguard was well known to feature folk singers at the time, like Joan Baez.   The exec who makes those decisions turned him down as not being "sellable".  A couple of years later, the exec ran across the memo of his refusal and reportedly went out and got drunk.

 

Not a big Petty fan here, but I liked that story. 

 

 

Sepiatone

I there's ANY group that I think I'm qualified to answer trivia questions about their music, it's Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. Yet I've recently stumbled upon a great song of theirs which I had never heard. I thought this was impossible. It's "If Your Mother Only Knew".

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