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I Saw A Deadhead Sticker on a Cadillac-- Don't Look Back


Princess of Tap
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Dick Clark, Brian Wilson, Phil Spector, Ed Sullivan, Brian Epstein, George Martin, The Wrecking Crew, The Chess brothers who founded Chess Records at 2120 South Michigan Avenue recorded Chuck Berry, Burt Bacharach Hal David and their artists like Dionne Warwick, Gene Pitney Jerry Butler and the Isley Brothers, David Geffen with the Eagles and John Lennon, Art Rupe's Specialty records with Little Richard and Larry Williams-- just to name a few of my favorites.

Please explain "The Wrecking Crew".

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This comment would give the impression that you're stating SMOKEY ROBINSON was somehow a competitor of Gordy's.  Which of course, he wasn't.  After his Miracles failed an audition for Brunswick records, he met Gordy,  and Gordy liked both Robinson and the Miracles and was also impressed with Smokey's songwriting.  He helped them get a single released on END RECORDS( "Got AJob")  and after Gordy formed TAMLA records, later reincorporated  into MOTOWN, they began a long colaboration.  Smokey eventually beame an execuive at Motown while still a recording artist too.

 

The others mentioned are inconsequential due to Gamble and Huff not hitting the scene with any discernable notice until Motown started it's decline due to changes in  public musical tastes and Motown's diversification into movies and the move to LA.  in the early '70's.

 

And Brown didn't do what could be called a lot of production outside of his own music.

 

And PRINCESS:

 

You must be easy to please if you can single out only a few songs as "favorites" in such a "greats" filled genre.  Certainly your stated picks ARE very good songs, and among the EXTREMELY LONG list of MY "favorites", as I can't honestly whittle it down that fine. 

 

And WHAT does Brian Wilson's personal opinion as to HIS favorite rock'n'roll tune have to do with the price of tea, or ANYTHING?

 

But just to have a bit of debate fun, and since rock'n'roll made it's biggest impact on the "young adult" and teen market, I'd place The WHO's "My Generation"  over "Hard Day's Night"  as the "most perfect rock'n'roll record of all time"  as it speaks more directly to the audience that was BUYING the music, and that it's STILL primarily relevant proves my point.

 

As for "minimally produced", you can't get much more "minimal" than Chuck Berry's "Maybelline".   ;)  But then, the same could be said of MUCH of Berry's discography.

 

Sepiatone

I included James Brown because of his tremendous on-stage presence, as well as unique stature. He couldn't be grouped with any other artists.

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But, WHAT has that to do with Berry Gordy, who was NEVER known as a stage performer?  Neither ware Gamble and Huff.

 

But if you surreptitiously meant they were "comptitors" of Jackie Wilson, then it's not true either.

 

Wilson, Robinson and Brown were great entertainers for certain.  But they were NEVER in any "competition" except in their FANS' minds.  I'm certain they each had the  HIGHEST respect and adimiration for each other. 

 

They were three very talented but distinct individuals with very distinct and unique styles and music.  And if ALL three of them were alive today( thankfully we still have SMOKEY) and any of this was brought up to them, they ALL THREE of them would agree that this "competition"  stuff was STUPID.

 

 

Sepiatone

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Honestly Smokey Robinson can sing- - but he's no soul workout artists like James Brown or Jackie Wilson.

 

Michael Jackson and Prince were-- pop, rock and R&B they could do it all - - + they were performers on the level of James Brown and Jackie Wilson. Those were the two performers that they copied the most on stage and they inherited their mantle.

 

We're really talking here about people who can dance and sing and perform until they almost pass out.

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Please explain "The Wrecking Crew".

Fra--

 

The Wrecking Crew were a unique group of Hollywood professional musicians - - many of them Jazz musicians who workrd first with Frank Sinatra, Nat King Cole and Judy Garland at Capitol- - and then they started working with Phil Spector. They got a reputation with Phil Spector and they worked on nearly every important rock and roll song in the 1960s.

 

You would do well to Google The Wrecking Crew as there are videos documentaries and books about them. There's probably even a list of all of the songs - - 45 records that they played on.

 

They recently were depicted in the Brian Wilson movie Love & Mercy - - because he really put them out front and center. They were the musicians who played Pet Sounds - - but actually they were the musicians who played on all of his records past 63.

 

Three of the most famous ones are Hal Blaine on drums, Carol Kaye on bass guitar and Glen Campbell on every kind of guitar.

 

The old musicians who worked for Sinatra and Nat King Cole gave them the name The Wrecking Crew because they were a new generation and more informal.

 

You can see videos of them talking about the various records that they performed on online. And the reason that Glen Campbell was selected to replace Brian Wilson briefly on stage was because he knew their music so well because he had played on their records.

 

Hal Blaine is given credit for that drum sound in Phil Spector's music and he particularly shines in the song California Girls - - it's his song.LOL

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Honestly Smokey Robinson can sing- - but he's no soul workout artists like James Brown or Jackie Wilson.

 

Michael Jackson and Prince were-- pop, rock and R&B they could do it all - - + they were performers on the level of James Brown and Jackie Wilson. Those were the two performers that they copied the most on stage and they inherited their mantle.

 

We're really talking here about people who can dance and sing and perform until they almost pass out.

 

Well, Wilson WAS known as "Mr. Excitement" and Brown was both( in the span of his long career) "Li'l" and "MR." Dynamite".

 

But I was referrencing DGF's use of the word "competition".

 

The other night I tuned into some infomercial for a TIME-LIFE package called "The Music Of Your Life" which was a collection of mostly love songs of the '50's and '60's.  It featured clips of old film and tunes by mid century crooners like PERRY COMO, DEAN MARTIN, JOHNNY MATHIS, NAT "KING" COLE, LENNY WELCH, TOMMY EDWARDS, AL MARTINO, MAT MONROE  BOBBY VINTON, ANDY WILLIAMS and the like.

 

Now, we ALL know PRINCESS, that you're a huge Andy Williams freak.  And why not?  He WAS a good singer.  But, was he the "best" out of all the above?  Well, YOU may think so, but someone ELSE may have a different opinion.  But, like I pointed out in a just recent post, if you gathered all of them in a room and asked, "WHO among all of you is the "best"?  they'd probably look at each other and laugh.  And probably, just for laughs, all of them would shout out in unison, "I am!" and start rolling on the floor in stitches.

 

As I all too regularily point out, we all have our preferrences, and the "best" only reflects who, among all the others, that WE like the "best".

 

 

Sepiatone

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I picked Andy Williams because he was in a particular generation of singers and I was at a particular age - -

 

I took him from the singers who were coming up at that time and I had 2 runners-- up they were Johnny Mathis and Tony Bennett.

 

I was just a child but I have no delusions that Andy Williams was the greatest singer of all time. I just knew he was better than any of those people coming up around him--but I would have to say Johnny Mathis was certainly just as good.

 

And I wasn't even looking at Frank Sinatra Nat King Cole because they were in another generation.

 

I honestly do think Frank Sinatra is the best male pop singer we ever had and if there was anybody close to him it would only be Nat King Cole.

 

Andy saw himself after Bing Crosby and Perry Como - - that where he saw himself.

 

As far as men are concerned in Andy's generation - - Johnny Mathis is certainly as good. I always thought after Tony Bennett ruined his voice he was hard to listen to. I used to collect the records of Jack Jones, Sammy Davis jr. and Steve Lawrence--those three-- they were very good.

 

When you judge an artist it's not just how well they sing, it's how they conduct their career, the recordings, their performances, and frankly they gotta have some hit records too.

 

Show business is very competitive.

 

I'm glad you mentioned Lenny Welch. I see him on those commercials and his career didn't go anywhere but my God he could sing very well.

 

That one hit song he had Barbra Streisand recorded it and it's one of the few times that I heard Barbra Streisand do a number that was not better than the original. But he really nailed that one. I think it's called Since I fell for you.

 

BTW-- Vic Damone was a great singer too. For awhile it looked like he was going to get that NBC TV show - - but he had trouble with a foreign ex-wife and it didn't go through for him. So Andy got the slot - - but Andy had already been working for NBC for years on The Tonight Show. Ironically he later had trouble with a foreign ex-wife, but it didn't hurt his career because he was already well-established.

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Fra--

 

The Wrecking Crew were a unique group of Hollywood professional musicians - - many of them Jazz musicians who workrd first with Frank Sinatra, Nat King Cole and Judy Garland at Capitol- - and then they started working with Phil Spector. They got a reputation with Phil Spector and they worked on nearly every important rock and roll song in the 1960s.

 

You would do well to Google The Wrecking Crew as there are videos documentaries and books about them. There's probably even a list of all of the songs - - 45 records that they played on.

 

They recently were depicted in the Brian Wilson movie Love & Mercy - - because he really put them out front and center. They were the musicians who played Pet Sounds - - but actually they were the musicians who played on all of his records past 63.

 

Three of the most famous ones are Hal Blaine on drums, Carol Kaye on bass guitar and Glen Campbell on every kind of guitar.

 

The old musicians who worked for Sinatra and Nat King Cole gave them the name The Wrecking Crew because they were a new generation and more informal.

 

You can see videos of them talking about the various records that they performed on online. And the reason that Glen Campbell was selected to replace Brian Wilson briefly on stage was because he knew their music so well because he had played on their records.

 

Hal Blaine is given credit for that drum sound in Phil Spector's music and he particularly shines in the song California Girls - - it's his song.LOL

Speaking of Phil Spector, he deserves to be on my most influential rock list.

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I picked Andy Williams because he was in a particular generation of singers and I was at a particular age - -

 

I took him from the singers who were coming up at that time and I had 2 runners-- up they were Johnny Mathis and Tony Bennett.

 

I was just a child but I have no delusions that Andy Williams was the greatest singer of all time. I just knew he was better than any of those people coming up around him--but I would have to say Johnny Mathis was certainly just as good.

 

And I wasn't even looking at Frank Sinatra Nat King Cole because they were in another generation.

 

I honestly do think Frank Sinatra is the best male pop singer we ever had and if there was anybody close to him it would only be Nat King Cole.

 

Andy saw himself after Bing Crosby and Perry Como - - that where he saw himself.

 

As far as men are concerned in Andy's generation - - Johnny Mathis is certainly as good. I always thought after Tony Bennett ruined his voice he was hard to listen to. I used to collect the records of Jack Jones, Sammy Davis jr. and Steve Lawrence--those three-- they were very good.

 

When you judge an artist it's not just how well they sing, it's how they conduct their career, the recordings, their performances, and frankly they gotta have some hit records too.

 

Show business is very competitive.

 

I'm glad you mentioned Lenny Welch. I see him on those commercials and his career didn't go anywhere but my God he could sing very well.

 

That one hit song he had Barbra Streisand recorded it and it's one of the few times that I heard Barbra Streisand do a number that was not better than the original. But he really nailed that one. I think it's called Since I fell for you.

 

BTW-- Vic Damone was a great singer too. For awhile it looked like he was going to get that NBC TV show - - but he had trouble with a foreign ex-wife and it didn't go through for him. So Andy got the slot - - but Andy had already been working for NBC for years on The Tonight Show. Ironically he later had trouble with a foreign ex-wife, but it didn't hurt his career because he was already well-established.

 

And it didn't hurt that Andy was GOOD LOOKING either.

 

And another good "crooner" not mentioned...

 

JERRY VALE

 

And didja ever notice too, that most of those guys were ITALIAN?

 

As for Phil Spector----

 

I long saw his work as one dimensional.   EVERY song used that "wall of sound" that got tiring after a short while.  But I'll give him this----

 

He DID have an ear for exceptional talent.

 

 

Sepiatone

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And it didn't hurt that Andy was GOOD LOOKING either.

 

And another good "crooner" not mentioned...

 

JERRY VALE

 

And didja ever notice too, that most of those guys were ITALIAN?

 

As for Phil Spector----

 

I long saw his work as one dimensional.   EVERY song used that "wall of sound" that got tiring after a short while.  But I'll give him this----

 

He DID have an ear for exceptional talent.

 

 

Sepiatone

Spector was responsible for many great songs. Examples:

 

Ronnettes---Do I Love You

Crystals-----He's Sure the Boy I Love

Darlene Love-----Today I Met the Boy I'm Gonna Marry

Righteous Brothers----You've Lost That Lovin Feeling

Alley Cats---Puddin N Tain

Tina Tirner---River Deep Mountain High

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And it didn't hurt that Andy was GOOD LOOKING either.

 

And another good "crooner" not mentioned...

 

JERRY VALE

 

And didja ever notice too, that most of those guys were ITALIAN?

 

As for Phil Spector----

 

I long saw his work as one dimensional. EVERY song used that "wall of sound" that got tiring after a short while. But I'll give him this----

 

He DID have an ear for exceptional talent.

 

 

Sepiatone

Sep--

 

Hate to be a wet blanket. But in my Panorama of great male singers - - Jerry Vale and Al Martino are at the very bottom. The first one was on Columbia and the second one I think was on Capitol. So I had access to them and their clubs - - every time they came on the radio,take that back I don't think Jerry Vale ever had a hit, but Al Martino had a lot of hits-- I would turn the radio to another station.

 

But I simply adored did Dean Martin singing in Italian; he had this one song called Return to me that would drive me crazy everytime I heard it on the radio. My God he was great!

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And it didn't hurt that Andy was GOOD LOOKING either.

 

And another good "crooner" not mentioned...

 

JERRY VALE

 

And didja ever notice too, that most of those guys were ITALIAN?

 

As for Phil Spector----

 

I long saw his work as one dimensional. EVERY song used that "wall of sound" that got tiring after a short while. But I'll give him this----

 

He DID have an ear for exceptional talent.

 

 

Sepiatone

A lot of them were, but most of them we're not Italian--

 

Andy Williams

Johnny Mathis

Jack Jones

Steve Lawrence

Pat Boone

 

On the Italian side the only one that I was crazy about in that age group was Vic Damone.

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Sep--

 

Hate to be a wet blanket. But in my Panorama of great male singers - - Jerry Vale and Al Martino are at the very bottom. The first one was on Columbia and the second one I think was on Capitol. So I had access to them and their clubs - - every time they came on the radio,take that back I don't think Jerry Vale ever had a hit, but Al Martino had a lot of hits-- I would turn the radio to another station.

 

But I simply adored did Dean Martin singing in Italian; he had this one song called Return to me that would drive me crazy everytime I heard it on the radio. My God he was great!

 

I wasn't personally rating them, or anybody.  Just making an observation.  And as often stated( and obviously here, ignored) it's all subjective.  But it DOES seem that all of 'em had that "Olive oil voice and Guinea charm" that JACK WOLTZ( John Marley) griped about in THE GODFATHER., don't it?  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

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Too bad my dad is somewhere else. He would enjoy a

conversation about Jerry Vale and Jack Jones. If any

of my friends had brought up those names when we

were teens, he would have been laughed out of the

room. :)

Especially Jerry Vale. He was the prototypical example of the height of uncool..........."I just bought four new LPs, one by Hendrix, one by the Airplane, one by James Brown, and one by Jerry Vale."

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Too bad my dad is somewhere else. He would enjoy a

conversation about Jerry Vale and Jack Jones. If any

of my friends had brought up those names when we

were teens, he would have been laughed out of the

room. :)

 

Gotta disagree strongly about Jack Jones. From the female perspective he was totally cool. He resembled his dad Allan Jones a lot and they both were great singers.

 

I recently saw a Christmas show for Judy Garland where he was the guest and he had lost none of his appeal for me.

 

The last time I saw him was the last time that Jerry Lewis did the Telethon and he was quite good. Looking him up on his website he still tours and his fans still love him and I still buy his CDs.

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Especially Jerry Vale. He was the prototypical example of the height of uncool..........."I just bought four new LPs, one by Hendrix, one by the Airplane, one by James Brown, and one by Jerry Vale."

And the first one on the turntable will be Jerry Vale. My dad wasn't

much of a record buyer, but he did have one of Jerry Vale's. He also

had one of those Hawaii music albums. Oh and Al Hirt. Oh lordy.

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Gotta disagree strongly about Jack Jones. From the female perspective he was totally cool. He resembled his dad Allan Jones a lot and they both were great singers.

 

I recently saw a Christmas show for Judy Garland where he was the guest and he had lost none of his appeal for me.

 

The last time I saw him was the last time that Jerry Lewis did the Telethon and he was quite good. Looking him up on his website he still tours and his fans still love him and I still buy his CDs.

I can see that. He was a handsome guy with a nice voice.

It's just that I remember all of these singer being favorites

of my parents, not my peers.

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Too bad my dad is somewhere else. He would enjoy a

conversation about Jerry Vale and Jack Jones. If any

of my friends had brought up those names when we

were teens, he would have been laughed out of the

room. :)

 

Heh.  Me and a few guys I knew thought JACK JONES was sorta cool.  AND a good singer.  And WE were the bunch in high school who were the earleist to get into HENDRIX and THE MOTHERS OF INVENTION  while many others were "grooving" to THE 1910 FRUITGUM COMPANY and THE COWSILLS!

 

I liked Jones 'cause he sang good and bore a strong resemblance to my second cousin Jerry, who WAS a cool guy.  :)

 

One funny thing I remember concerning Jerry Vale---

 

My wfe and I were watching some TV show in which someone brought up, due to their rising fame at the time, the rock group THE WHITE STRIPES.  My wife asked me, What the HELL is THAT name supposed to mean?"  And unable to resist, I told her.....

 

"It's probably some kind of JERRY VALE "tribute" band!"  :D

 

 

We DO all remember that wide stripe of WHITE HAIR Vale had coursing through his otherwise dark mane, don't we?  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

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Heh. Me and a few guys I knew thought JACK JONES was sorta cool. AND a good singer. And WE were the bunch in high school who were the earleist to get into HENDRIX and THE MOTHERS OF INVENTION while many others were "grooving" to THE 1910 FRUITGUM COMPANY and THE COWSILLS!

 

I liked Jones 'cause he sang good and bore a strong resemblance to my second cousin Jerry, who WAS a cool guy. :)

 

One funny thing I remember concerning Jerry Vale---

 

My wfe and I were watching some TV show in which someone brought up, due to their rising fame at the time, the rock group THE WHITE STRIPES. My wife asked me, What the HELL is THAT name supposed to mean?" And unable to resist, I told her.....

 

"It's probably some kind of JERRY VALE "tribute" band!" :D

 

 

We DO all remember that wide stripe of WHITE HAIR Vale had coursing through his otherwise dark mane, don't we? ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

 

Nice comments about Jack.

 

 

As for Jerry Vale - - I saw his publicity with the record company and his records were in the record stores, but I don't remember him ever having a hit record.

 

I mean how he could be as popular as he was with no hit records really amazes me.

 

Al Martino had hit after hit and I just don't like him-- but he was on the radio at least.

 

One singer that I think I always didn't give enough recognition to, even though

I knew he was very good, was Steve Lawrence.

 

The thing was he would often sing with his wife Eydie Gorme, who was one of the most exceptional singers in the post-war era. My mother was just crazy about Eydie. I think I must have heard her every time she was on national TV.

 

In the eighties they came to Kansas City and I went to see them in concert.

--in the same theater where I had seen Andy Williams, Johnny Mathis and Sammy.

 

Well, I was just amazed when Steve sang New York, New York--he simply knocked me out - - and for the first time I had to realize he was maybe as good as his wife.LOL

 

I got a couple of his records, but unfortunately he just never had enough hits to really get in there swinging.

 

The other thing about Steve Lawrence is that he's tremendously funny and he could have been a professional comic if he had wanted to be. When I think of his jokes that night, they still make me laugh.

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Nice comments about Jack.

 

 

As for Jerry Vale - - I saw his publicity with the record company and his records were in the record stores, but I don't remember him ever having a hit record.

 

I mean how he could be as popular as he was with no hit records really amazes me.

 

Al Martino had hit after hit and I just don't like him-- but he was on the radio at least.

 

One singer that I think I always didn't give enough recognition to, even though

I knew he was very good, was Steve Lawrence.

 

The thing was he would often sing with his wife Eydie Gorme, who was one of the most exceptional singers in the post-war era. My mother was just crazy about Eydie. I think I must have heard her every time she was on national TV.

 

In the eighties they came to Kansas City and I went to see them in concert.

--in the same theater where I had seen Andy Williams, Johnny Mathis and Sammy.

 

Well, I was just amazed when Steve sang New York, New York--he simply knocked me out - - and for the first time I had to realize he was maybe as good as his wife.LOL

 

I got a couple of his records, but unfortunately he just never had enough hits to really get in there swinging.

 

The other thing about Steve Lawrence is that he's tremendously funny and he could have been a professional comic if he had wanted to be. When I think of his jokes that night, they still make me laugh.

Steve Lawrence actually did a few songs that ventured close to rock and roll, "Pretty Blue Eyes", "Footsteps", etc, I liked Eydie better than him. Her version of "I'll Take Romance" is the definitive one.

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Heh.  Me and a few guys I knew thought JACK JONES was sorta cool.  AND a good singer.  And WE were the bunch in high school who were the earleist to get into HENDRIX and THE MOTHERS OF INVENTION  while many others were "grooving" to THE 1910 FRUITGUM COMPANY and THE COWSILLS!

 

I liked Jones 'cause he sang good and bore a strong resemblance to my second cousin Jerry, who WAS a cool guy.  :)

 

 

 

 

Sepiatone

I don't think back then we knew much more about these guys except that

they were "old" singers who popped up on TV sometimes. Now I can see

they were talented and produced some good songs, but I still haven't spent

a penny on any of them. One of my grandfathers liked Homer and Jethro.

They were kind of funny, even if one didn't get all the references to the

songs they were making fun of. 

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VAUTRIN::

 

I LOVED Homer amd Jethro.  I even sent in some number of Kellog's Corn Flakes box tops to get their "OOH, That's Corny" joke book.

 

I was already familiar with the song "Fascination" when they did their bit where "Jethro"( those weren't their real names) would play the song on his mandolin with no singing, as an instrumental interlude for the song parody of "Look Away Lover"  turning it into a song about a woman that was "fat, just too fat for me"  and when the chorus of "fascination came around, they finally sang, "She had nine buttons on her nightgown/but she could only fasten eight."  Not a bad play on the word "fascinate" I thought.

 

But, we never looked at Jack Jones as really being "older" or "old" at all.  When his single "Wives And Lovers" was playing on the same AM stations that played The Beach Boy tunes and other pop and rock tunes of that year, he was only 25.  Not really much older than most of The Beatles.

 

and PRINCESS::

 

I, like probably most people, don't wait until a song is a "hit" before I like it, and don't judge the quality of anybody's music based on whether or not any of it was "hits".  Remember....just because millions of people like something and spend money on it doesn't really mean it contains any quality.  This last election should have proven that.  And that millions of people also re-elected G.W.Bush , and also tuned in to watch GILLIGAN'S ISLAND is further proof.

 

I decided long ago that the "PEOPLE'S CHOICE AWARD" they dole ut annually is likely a dubious honor at best.

 

 

Sepiatone

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Steve Lawrence actually did a few songs that ventured close to rock and roll, "Pretty Blue Eyes", "Footsteps", etc, I liked Eydie better than him. Her version of "I'll Take Romance" is the definitive one.

 

 

Eydie's I'll Take Romance is the definitive Eydie and really displays her style and her range, which made her famous.

 

Recently I got a CD of two old albums that I had years ago--

Steve has got control of all their music now and I think that's wonderful.

 

The three songs that I really liked on this CD are unbelievable performances from Eydie- -

 

"What Did I have that I don't have now?"- - from On a Clear Day you can see forever

 

Her Grammy award-winning "If He Walked into my life"-- from Mame

 

And her version/arrangement of "I Wanna Be around to pick up the pieces", which would make Tony Bennett sit down and applaud.

 

Eydie also does this great torch song: "What's New?

 

As far as the ladies go, Eydie is in the top five of my list of girl singers--

 

 

What Eydie had is just something you're born with.

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