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I Saw A Deadhead Sticker on a Cadillac-- Don't Look Back


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Vautrin, "Uncle John's Band" is my favorite Dead song.

 

With all the talk of Jefferson Airplane, my favorite tunes are, "Don't You Want Somebody to Love", "Crown of Creation", "Miracles", "We Can Be Together", "She Has Funny Cars" "J.P.P. McStep B. Blues" and "D.C.B.A. 25".

 

(I'm not sure if "Miracles" is Jefferson Airplane or Starship.)

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NOTE FOR DGF--

 

Down Goes Frazier-- you know more about the Philly music scene than anybody on this website. And maybe you can talk about manufactured rock and roll music in Philadelphia. That would be Chancellor records. And the real deal rock and roll music in Philadelphia - - that would be Cameo Parkway. And The Rock and Roll scene and classic rock and roll in real time started with Dick Clark and American Bandstand in Philadelphia.

 

FRA-- were you ever on American Bandstand?

 

I know you must know a lot more about Frankie Avalon and Fabian, and Chancellor records and Cameo Parkway than I do - - so if you get a chance can you tell us about it later?

 

 

It's very ordinary in Show Business that if you one thing works then you try to copy it over and over again to make money.

 

Good example of that would be when we had all Westerns on TV so everybody had to copy that, then we had all private detectives on TV, then we had all doctors on TV excetera excetera excetera boring.

 

Rock and roll music at one point was grass rooted in terms that it was done by kids, young people, who met at school or church and formed a group.

 

When Elvis was drafted, Showbiz bigwigs knew this was a great opportunity to try and make a lot of money while he was out of commission.

 

So that's when all of this manufacturing Brill building stuff started.

 

A lot of the singers came from Philadelphia. They were Ordinary People and some of them actually has started singing on their own, while others were totally manufactured.

 

Jerry Lee Lewis - - The Killer - - one of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame founders of rock and roll music-- was a Yellow Sun Sam Phillips recording discovery.

 

His breakout hit was a Whole Lotta Shakin Goin on in 1957. The single was a number one hit and sold over 6 million copies. Still a number of radio stations wouldn't play it because--

 

they thought that he sounded like a black person-- records sung by black people were not played on many mainstream record stations in 1957--it was too sexually suggestive or they heard curse words in it.

 

The Killer was a man famous for his wild performances, marrying his 13 year-old cousin, and most of all songs that featured his pumping piano like A Whole Lotta Shakin Goin On and Great Balls of Fire.

 

Jerry Lee Lewis in part blamed the downfall of his career not on his wild lifestyle or the Scandal surrounding his incestuous marriage - - he blamed it on all the Bobbys--

 

all the Bobbys who destroyed grass roots, real rock and roll music. And replaced it a manufactured Hollywood fake version.

 

Bobby Darin, Bobby Rydell, Bobby Vee, Bobby Vinton excetera excetera.

 

Also, you can throw in Frankie Avalon, Fabian and Paul Anka.

 

When Elvis went into the service - - the big wigs in Show Business even started making TV stars and movie stars record--

 

Tab Hunter, Ricky Nelson, Pat Boone, Ed Kookie Byrnes, Richard Chamberlain, ect.

What was rock and roll on the radio simply started to go into a mushy area of generality.

 

Some of these people were good singers and some weren't.

 

The point is what had been authentic grass rooted rock and roll on the radio had be come a Hollywood manufactured fake.

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Vautrin, "Uncle John's Band" is my favorite Dead song.

 

With all the talk of Jefferson Airplane, my favorite tunes are, "Don't You Want Somebody to Love", "Crown of Creation", "Miracles", "We Can Be Together", "She Has Funny Cars" "J.P.P. McStep B. Blues" and "D.C.B.A. 25".

 

(I'm not sure if "Miracles" is Jefferson Airplane or Starship.)

I don't really have one favorite Dead song, but I'll list some of

my favorites-- Candyman, Casey Jones, Ramble On Rose,

Cumberland Blues, Dire Wolf, Truckin'. I'm pretty sure that

Miracles is a Starship tune.

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Whew!  Princess has some anger issues...

 

But bear in mind, neither ELVIS PRESLEY nor AMERICAN BANDSTAND "invented" rock'n'roll.  And many top music publishing firms, songwriting teams, music studios, and music industry wags had offices in the BRILL BUILDING since it opened in 1931, so the "Brill building stuff" started WAY before anybody ever HEARD of Elvis, and/or couldn't care LESS about him going into the service.

 

As it was peacetime, and Presley probably could have gotten some kind of exemption, the COLONEL (that scumbag) jumped on the obvious great PR to be had of it, and Barnum-like made the most of it. 

 

All the copycats and wanna-be's were already flowing out of all the other labels' doors, so it wasn't the industry taking advantage of elvis going into the Army.  The industry was hot on Presleys tail from JUMP.

 

P-O-T....In the very earlist of SUN RECORDS' history, it's always been a problem.

 

Not only "The Killer" (not just "killer") , but to some, even CARL PERKINS, ROY ORBISON and ELVIS sounded "too colored" to a good amount of white folks to allow their children to listen to 'em.  But as far back as I can recall....

 

MANY African-American music groups, bands and/or combos and solo artists were played on "mainstream" AM radio stations back then....

 

THE PLATTERS

 

LEO DORSEY

 

JOE JONES

 

BOBBY LEWIS

 

FATS DOMINO

 

THE CADILLACS

 

THE DRIFTERS

 

THE COASTERS

 

THE CLOVERS

 

don't forget, even

RAY CHARLES (whose recording career slightly precedes Elvis)

 

BROOK BENTON

 

SAM COOKE

 

And of course...

 

LITTLE RICHARD

 

And a ton of others

 

So, it WASN'T the radio statons that refused airtime, it was bigoted parental interferrence.  The stations and/or labels didn't really CARE about black-from-white.  GREEN was the only color mattered to them!

 

That perhaps it was the LISTENERS that might have PREFERRED the "Bobby's" OVER Lewis is what feeds Jerry Lee's bitterness.  He was talented enough.  he didn't NEED the overbloated ego as well.  "The Killer" was a nickname that fit what HE did to his career, nothing to do with his music, IMHO.

 

Sepiatone

 

And incidentally...the only DEAD song I STILL like to this day, is "Truckin'  "

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Sepiatone, I don't know where you're coming from with the "anger issues" dig, since I didn't read any anger at all in her post. Perhaps you have sensitivity issues? But she can defend herself, if she wants to bother.

 

Her Brill Building reference wasn't to say that the actual Brill Building was created to imitate Elvis, but a shorthand reference to manufactured pop idols and pre-packaged artists, like those churned out at Brill Building. 

 

I know you're a Michigan man, so I don't know how much time you spent in the South during the 50's and early 60's, but there weren't a lot of black artists played on the radio unless it was straight gospel. You could see them perform on the "chitlin circuit", but not hear them on the radio.

 

And you are right, Elvis was considered too black-sounding when he started, which was the source of a lot of the southern animosity he faced when touring the region, much more so in the beginning than his swiveling hips or sexual swagger.

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I don't really have one favorite Dead song, but I'll list some of

my favorites-- Candyman, Casey Jones, Ramble On Rose,

Cumberland Blues, Dire Wolf, Truckin'. I'm pretty sure that

Miracles is a Starship tune.

I have several---New Speedway Boogie, Uncle John's Band, Shakedown Street, Friend of the Devil, Estimated Prophet.

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Ca

 

NOTE FOR DGF--

Down Goes Frazier-- you know more about the Philly music scene than anybody on this website. And maybe you can talk about manufactured rock and roll music in Philadelphia. That would be Chancellor records. And the real deal rock and roll music in Philadelphia - - that would be Cameo Parkway. And The Rock and Roll scene and classic rock and roll in real time started with Dick Clark and American Bandstand in Philadelphia.

FRA-- were you ever on American Bandstand?

I know you must know a lot more about Frankie Avalon and Fabian, and Chancellor records and Cameo Parkway than I do - - so if you get a chance can you tell us about it later?


It's very ordinary in Show Business that if you one thing works then you try to copy it over and over again to make money.

Good example of that would be when we had all Westerns on TV so everybody had to copy that, then we had all private detectives on TV, then we had all doctors on TV excetera excetera excetera boring.

Rock and roll music at one point was grass rooted in terms that it was done by kids, young people, who met at school or church and formed a group.

When Elvis was drafted, Showbiz bigwigs knew this was a great opportunity to try and make a lot of money while he was out of commission.

So that's when all of this manufacturing Brill building stuff started.

A lot of the singers came from Philadelphia. They were Ordinary People and some of them actually has started singing on their own, while others were totally manufactured.

Jerry Lee Lewis - - The Killer - - one of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame founders of rock and roll music-- was a Yellow Sun Sam Phillips recording discovery.

His breakout hit was a Whole Lotta Shakin Goin on in 1957. The single was a number one hit and sold over 6 million copies. Still a number of radio stations wouldn't play it because--

they thought that he sounded like a black person-- records sung by black people were not played on many mainstream record stations in 1957--it was too sexually suggestive or they heard curse words in it.

The Killer was a man famous for his wild performances, marrying his 13 year-old cousin, and most of all songs that featured his pumping piano like A Whole Lotta Shakin Goin On and Great Balls of Fire.

Jerry Lee Lewis in part blamed the downfall of his career not on his wild lifestyle or the Scandal surrounding his incestuous marriage - - he blamed it on all the Bobbys--

all the Bobbys who destroyed grass roots, real rock and roll music. And replaced it a manufactured Hollywood fake version.

Bobby Darin, Bobby Rydell, Bobby Vee, Bobby Vinton excetera excetera.

Also, you can throw in Frankie Avalon, Fabian and Paul Anka.

When Elvis went into the service - - the big wigs in Show Business even started making TV stars and movie stars record--

Tab Hunter, Ricky Nelson, Pat Boone, Ed Kookie Byrnes, Richard Chamberlain, ect.
What was rock and roll on the radio simply started to go into a mushy area of generality.

Some of these people were good singers and some weren't.

The point is what had been authentic grass rooted rock and roll on the radio had be come a Hollywood manufactured fake.

Cameo Parkway(Rydell, Orlons Dovells, etc. ) turned out more substantive stuff than Chancellor (Avalon, Fabian). The look came first, and the music was secondary, although Avalon turned out some catchy stuff (Venus, Bobby Sox to Stockings, Why). Kal Mann, the head honcho and principal lyricist at Cameo Parkway, was a former comedy writer who could really turn a phrase.

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Vautrin, "Uncle John's Band" is my favorite Dead song.

 

With all the talk of Jefferson Airplane, my favorite tunes are, "Don't You Want Somebody to Love", "Crown of Creation", "Miracles", "We Can Be Together", "She Has Funny Cars" "J.P.P. McStep B. Blues" and "D.C.B.A. 25".

 

(I'm not sure if "Miracles" is Jefferson Airplane or Starship.)

I've been eating and sleeping Airplane lately. My favorites are "Watch Her Ride", "House at Pooneil Corners" ,"Ballad of You and Me and Pooneil", Last Wall of the Castle", "Crown of Creation", "Martha", "Plastic Fantastic Lover" and "The Other Side of This Life"

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???

 

Hydrogen peroxide will help that HEARING problem you seem to have there, DGF.

 

SWEETWATER, which was, and not Ritchie Havens, the first performers to hit the stage at WOODSTOCK, had a closer "sound" to Airplane's than CREAM ever did.

 

The great thing about that time period( later 1960's) was that most bands have QUIT sounding and looking a lot alike back then.  Not until the '80's did musical artists return to mostly looking and sounding alike.

 

Now, I don't know if this "copycat" stuff started earlier, like I don't know of anyone ever having been groomed to be a SINATRA copy, like in the '50's CONWAY TWITTY and a few others were being groomed by their labels to be ELVIS copycats, and how many BEATLE look and sound alikes were there?  (The KNICKERBOCKERS were probably the best of the lot, but STILL "one hit wonders".)

 

Anyway, the big deal by the late '60's wasn't a drive to SOUND like anybody else, but it seemed the weirder tha NAME of the band, meant hopefully more success.  And there were trends in that respect too.

 

Ringo, in the Beatle's ANTHOLOGY tapes, refers to how the name for the LP SGT. PEPPER'S LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND came up was that at THAT time in the music industry, there were a large number of bands coming up with what Ringo described as, "Band names that were whole sentences"  like DR. JEREMIAH MODRECAI'S TRAVELLING SNAKE OIL BAND and crap like that( Dr. Mordecai being just an example, and NOT an actual band).  So the name SGT. PEPPER etc. was kind of poking fun of all that.

 

Take for instance, VANILLA FUDGE, which was obviously a band of white guys homogenizing soul and Motown classics.  Other names I mentioned before, like ULTIMATE SPINACH and THE GREAT PEANUT BUTTER CONSPIRACY.  Then of course, MOBY GRAPE.  A good band yes, but they probably figured the oddball name wouldn't hurt.

 

Yeah, the '60's WERE a strange time, but I miss it!  ;)

 

Sepiatone

Bands, to be thought of together, should have relatively equal fame. Jefferson Airplane and Sweetwater? Give me a break.

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I've been eating and sleeping Airplane lately. My favorites are "Watch Her Ride", "House at Pooneil Corners" ,"Ballad of You and Me and Pooneil", Last Wall of the Castle", "Crown of Creation", "Martha", "Plastic Fantastic Lover" and "The Other Side of This Life"

DGF, surprised that "Wooden Ships" isn't on your list. I remember you and I once discussing their version over CSN's (you thought Airplane's was better and I preferred CSN's). I do like Airplane's version, though...

 

Our favorites lists have "Crown of Creation" in common. :)

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If the Airplane was influenced by Cream, it couldn't have

been in the beginning, since the Airplane was formed

before Cream. It's possible they were influenced by

Cream afterwards, but who knows? I've never seen much

of a similarity between the two groups, except that which

might have come by being contemporaries. I would say the

Yardbirds sounded more like Cream than the Airplane

did.

 

I think marrying his cousin (I believe she was his sixth cousin)

did more to harm Jerry Lee Lewis' career than anything that

came out of Philly or the Brill Building. Back in the late 1950s

that was dynamite and it took a while for Jerry to recover, which

he did by switching over to country in the late 1960s. Turned

out to be a smart career move.

 

 

 

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Bands, to be thought of together, should have relatively equal fame. Jefferson Airplane and Sweetwater? Give me a break.

 

Sepia--

 

I saw Rare Earth once in a college concert. I think they're a lot better than Vanilla Fudge what do you think?

 

And by the way, whatever happened to those groups? They seemed to have disintegrated rather early.

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If the Airplane was influenced by Cream, it couldn't have

been in the beginning, since the Airplane was formed

before Cream. It's possible they were influenced by

Cream afterwards, but who knows? I've never seen much

of a similarity between the two groups, except that which

might have come by being contemporaries. I would say the

Yardbirds sounded more like Cream than the Airplane

did.

 

I think marrying his cousin (I believe she was his sixth cousin)

did more to harm Jerry Lee Lewis' career than anything that

came out of Philly or the Brill Building. Back in the late 1950s

that was dynamite and it took a while for Jerry to recover, which

he did by switching over to country in the late 1960s. Turned

out to be a smart career move.

They were influenced by Cream after "Pillow". Both groups used vocal harmonies, and both had psychedelic sounding guitar and bass lines.

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DGF, surprised that "Wooden Ships" isn't on your list. I remember you and I once discussing their version over CSN's (you thought Airplane's was better and I preferred CSN's). I do like Airplane's version, though...

 

Our favorites lists have "Crown of Creation" in common. :)

Of course, add 'Wooden Ships" and also "Somebody to Love".

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Of course, add 'Wooden Ships" and also "Somebody to Love".

Fra-- I bought Somebody to Love. Grace Slick's voice always intrigued me.

 

In the eighties and nineties I really got into Jefferson Starship. I think her voice was better than ever. There's wasn't anything she couldn't have done.

 

We Built This City

Nothing's going to stop us now

 

and Mickey Thomas on Sara

 

-- what do you think of that Starship?

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Fra-- I bought Somebody to Love. Grace Slick's voice always intrigued me.

 

In the eighties and nineties I really got into Jefferson Starship. I think her voice was better than ever. There's wasn't anything she couldn't have done.

 

We Built This City

Nothing's going to stop us now

 

and Mickey Thomas on Sara

 

-- what do you think of that Starship?

Starship's  sound was too mainstream. Their stuff was good, but didn't compare to the Airplane.

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Ca

 

Cameo Parkway(Rydell, Orlons Dovells, etc. ) turned out more substantive stuff than Chancellor (Avalon, Fabian). The look came first, and the music was secondary, although Avalon turned out some catchy stuff (Venus, Bobby Sox to Stockings, Why). Kal Mann, the head honcho and principal lyricist at Cameo Parkway, was a former comedy writer who could really turn a phrase.

A group of us went down to the Bandstand studios once, trying to get in to the show. We didn't succeed.

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Starship's sound was too mainstream. Their stuff was good, but didn't compare to the Airplane.

Well, it's a different genre of rock and roll-'it's not Acid Rock.

 

It's not that they're not that great, but you just prefer Acid Rock.

 

The Beatles were mainstream, The Beach Boys were mainstream, so are the stones Mainstream is not a bad thing

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A group of us went down to the Bandstand studios once, trying to get in to the show. We didn't succeed.

 

Fra--

 

Did you have friends that got on the show? And if so who was on the show as a guest When your friends were on?

 

Did any of your friends get to grade records?

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Sepia--

 

I saw Rare Earth once in a college concert. I think they're a lot better than Vanilla Fudge what do you think?

 

And by the way, whatever happened to those groups? They seemed to have disintegrated rather early.

 

I never saw RARE EARTH live, bu only based on their live LP, I can only say Vanilla Fudge had a far better guitarist.  But in all other aspects, Rare Earth SMOKED 'em!

 

And as far as DGF's backpedalling with his "bands being togeter should have EQUAL FAME", well, he wasn't TALKING about level of fame originally, he was referring to their SOUNDS.  And if anyone recalls, almost ALL of them bands back in those times ahd "equal fame".

 

Sepiatone

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Well, it's a different genre of rock and roll-'it's not Acid Rock.

 

It's not that they're not that great, but you just prefer Acid Rock.

 

The Beatles were mainstream, The Beach Boys were mainstream, so are the stones Mainstream is not a bad thing

Maybe I should have used the term middle-of-the road rather than mainstream.

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