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When quoting, you would be better off to scroll down a little and quote the original to get the full meaning. Regarding my 'list of examination', I had just listed names of directors I've studied. I prefer learning more about American (born or transported) directors than foreign. Mr. Burley has been kind enough to explain certain things to me in the past and oddly enough, was capable of doing so using only English phraseology unlike phases such as "mise en scene". Sorry, I was a Latin student not french or whatever that is, so I do not know for sure what you mean, except trying to decipher it from the context it is in.




I don't thing it is necessary to capitalize on architecture: directing, camera, lighting, dance, method acting, etc. yes, documentarys on those would be helpful, but the very word architecture is an uncommon word for most people. I cited dressmaking in my post, THAT is architecture in every sense of the word. I was amazed at the Brown Derby and looked it up to find out about its designer. Mount Rushmore is architecture of an extraordinary undertaking. We admire architecture on a daily basis without even realizing it. When watching movies, we are amazed at the Bridge on the River Kwai simply because they accomplished it. The Fountainhead was a movie about architecture, what it is, why he wanted to be different from the norm, how he suffered when misunderstood, etc. But to use a movie like Strangers When we Meet as an example of an architectural movie is ludicrous. The man is an architect, he designs houses, it has nothing to do with the plot. Mr. Blandings at least went into dynamics and finances of building a house, and we all laughed at the color schemes.


"Where would we live?", Tarzan and Jane did pretty well in that big old tree! . . . Kidding, just lightening up.


In my travels, I've seen the hot springs in Arkansas, a Virginia restored plantation, the corn fields of Iowa, the Alamo, the Black Hills, Mount Rushmore, gone to mass at Salt Lake City, stood on both Continental Divides, seen the California tarpits, and strolled through old San Diego. I blister when someone raves about going to Europe, Japan, China, etc. on vacation, and I always ask if they have seen the Grand Canyon. I resent Americans who donate to foreign places before seeing their own beautiful country (unless they have relatives in the old country). The Swiss Alps cannot possibly be more beautiful than our Grand Tetons, and altho Ireland is most likely gorgeous, Kentucky has some pretty fabulous rolling green hills too. I guess I'm giving reasons why I am not a fan of foreign films, I want to see all I can of America and its people before I no longer can. As soon as I can walk again, I plan to head east to see Massachusetts, DC, and have a lobster dinner in Maine. My only regret will be my husband cannot be with me as he was on all the other junkets we shared.

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Thank you, FredC, Brad, and Heidi for the welcomes! I look forward to sharing opinions with all of you.


I echo your sentiments, Heidi, about the music in the promo. It was a bit unnerving to say the least. It's funny, but last night while watching The Third Man, I kept thinking about September's promo everytime I heard that zither music. It didn't seem to fit the film but that was the whole point. During that time in Vienna nothing fit or was in the place it was supposed to be. Genius directing on the part of Reed.


Can't wait to see if October's promo will ignite such lively discussion! 8^)



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> Quiller:


> When quoting, you would be better off to scroll down

> a little and quote the original to get the full

> meaning. Regarding my 'list of examination',

> I had just listed names of directors I've studied. I

> prefer learning more about American (born or

> transported) directors than foreign. Mr. Burley has

> been kind enough to explain certain things to me in

> the past and oddly enough, was capable of doing so

> using only English phraseology unlike phases such as

> "mise en scene". Sorry, I was a Latin student

> not french or whatever that is, so I do not know for

> sure what you mean, except trying to decipher it from

> the context it is in.


Well, I'm sorry that I didn't make an extra effort of quoting both your original message as well as Jack's. I don't know why you're singling me out, though. It seems like Jack made the same "mistake" I did. (If you'll look at the subject line of my post, it clearly states "in response to Jack Burley.") Besides, I don't think that my original comments regarding "Antonio Gaudi" painted you in a bad light. As I said, I was merely trying to draw attention to the variety of ways a viewer might be able to approach the movie.


As for "mise en scene," it's a commonly used term in film criticism. So I wasn't trying to be pretentious. Like "ego" and "id" in psychology or "flambe" in cooking, it's one of those foreign words that has entered regular use in the English language when you're talking about a specific subject. Specifically, "mise en scene" refers to "the process of setting a stage, with regard to placement of actors, scenery, properties, etc." (as Random House Dictionary defines it). In other words, it's just a short-hand term for referring to how the director stages the scene, actors, and action. I figured that, since you said you had "studied" directors, you would have known what this fairly basic term means. (Not to mention that you're singling out a parenthetical statement that doesn't really have much to do with the content of my post, so I can only conclude that, for some reason, I've offended you and you're just trying to be contrary.)

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>Can't wait to see if October's promo will ignite such discussion.


I hope there *is* an October promo - I haven't seen any sign of one yet. Unfortunately, "This Month on TCM" promos haven't shown up every month. In fact, I think the last one was for April. Until this past month the promos since April have covered particular themes, such as Black Images on Film (May) and Leading Ladies (June).


These are done for TCM by a design company called Raygun, and much of their earlier work for TCM (some of it equally provocative) is archived at their website (raygun.com). You might enjoy taking a look at them.


I love Raygun's clips. Their work is memorable, imaginative, and enjoyable -- a fitting complement to TCM.

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Uhhhhhhhh ohhhhhhhhh.


Did you all see Raygun's latest on the Rob Zombie stuff? MrBoynton, go to their site, the Rob Zombie promo is there.


It's good stuff, BUT no, no, no it's not in keeping with TCM (violence and sex galore) and those who did NOT like September's promo are NOT going to like this one.


Dang, I love Raygun. They ARE making big bucks with the whacko musicians out there, aren't they, I imagine?




P.S. No, the music is not a keeper, like MUSE was.


So, anyone still not of the opinion that TCM is changing? Hmmmmmmmm????????????

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I've seen the new Rob Zombie promo, and I don't like it. I can tell it is on when I hear a bunch of loud screaching sounds.


Other than that, it looks like October is going to have a group of Kay Francis, Warren William, and Ricardo Cortez movies, which is good.

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Yes, this latest even has me curious.


Yo, tcmprogrammer, what IS the thought process behind these promos? I admit, I liked September's but October's is really just more of the same. I'm not sure what type of music this is, but even you have to admit, it IS more suited to MTV and Jackass than to TCM.


As I asked before, anyone STILL want to opine that TCM isn't changing?


P.S. Seriously...I just went back to listen to MUSE and that song kicks ****. What is with the new song? I don't give it a 5 or a 3 or even a 2. Come on, Raygun, I giveth and I taketh away. The song and the promo are fairly bad and repetitive. I expect better of you.



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I'm not sure stagnant is the correct word to use, maybe steadfast and honorable would be better. A channel that advertises classic movies, is expected to show classic movies, not cater to youth. Youth has it's own thing. The youth that get hooked on classic movies make their own decision to do so, as many of our younger members have stated. They seem to be nice, rounded people who respect the old ways, even if they don't always understand it. Values change, and people change, but trying to keep the idea of the old values is not wrong. How many young people would like to have nightly, family dinners, or sit with their families to watch TV, or go to church on Sunday as a family? Sound old fogey-ish do I? How do you know? . . . Maybe there are a lot of kids out there who would rather have mom cook dinner, and do the laundry instead of having the best DVD player or iPod. A lot of these kids never had that. . . see it in old movies, and maybe think "Gee, I wonder what it would be like?" Not all kids go for the Rob Zombie thing, some of them actually LIKE a clean face, unmarked arms and legs, and clothes that fit, with hair colors that God gave them, with a little help from Miss Clairol.


You can scoff all you want at what I'm saying, but 3 years ago, TCM would NEVER have allowed a Rob Zombie character on their airwaves, let alone favor him with promos and ads. If they have to modernize, fine, but do it with the values their loyal fans deserve. And don't say we don't deserve it, if we are loyal and watch TCM over other channels, that makes us deserving and entitled to be treated with the respect they wish from us.


I, personally have about 5, one-hour long shows that I watch on other channels, but the rest of the 24/7 my TV is tuned to TCM. I'm the one they should please and cater to, not some stranger who watches for a kick once a year.

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I think her comments (correct me if I'm wrong heidigunn) are directed at Mr. Ranger, who actually is trying to use 'change' as a way to describe what TCM is doing with this Rob Zombie creature.


He really has no good answer for what TCM is doing, so he's trying, ineffectually, to get in a 'zinger' at me.

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heidigunn, 'stagnant' was a silly choice of a word, since TCM was anything but stagnant before they decided to go off their nutter with whatever the hell it is that Rob Zombie is. Fortunately, I won't be tuning in to find out, but if this latest promo is any indication...shame on you, Raygun...I won't be missing much.

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I'm sorry Sweet baby:


I should have hit 'Reply to this thread' instead of 'Reply to this post'. You never entered my mind, because you DO say the same things. I just talk more than you.


One last thought however, on the sci-fi channel, one of the 5 shows I watch has been cancelled and the uproar is amazing. Most people have threatened to quit watching the channel because of this, and I don't know about them, but I will definitely be one. I have watched this show faithfully in the whole 10 years it's been on, and even before that when it was originally a movie, then serialized on Showtime, then finally bought by Sci-fi. After all that time, I feel the channel has been traitorous to me, unless the cast wanted to leave, but I haven't heard anything about that except they love the show and were willing to stay as long as they were wanted. Of course last year the same thing happened with The West Wing, so I guess the stations don't care about their viewers . . . only the Almighty Dollar.

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Not to sweat it, TCMprogrammer. Todays lineup of films from the 1940s are enjoyable (Edwad Arnold is a favorite), although some of the daytime old mold from last week was a bit bleak and bland.

Looking forward to 'Private Screenings' tonight with the former child stars and their films to follow (where else but on TCM).

Tuesday promises to be another delightful day, with Irene Dunne and a Leo McCarey birthday salute.

And Bette Davis is in the hot seat on Cavett this week, with her films to follow.

Halloween is looking good with its mix of gold mold chillers and artsy Vincent Price horror flicks.



Keep up the good work.

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Please, please, please, go to page 3 of this thread, scroll down about 1/4 of the way to my post on 9/30/2006 - 11:31 EDT, in response to: stoneyburke.


You will see that I defended the daytime schedule, but read all of it and you will then understand my misgivings about primetime.


I don't want to take up all that space with copying it, so please check it out.

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I don't neccessarily think it's such a horrendous idea for Rob Zombie to host TCM Underground AND I don't think it's traitorous to the loyal fans. Afterall, these movies look like they'll be playing around 2:00am and later ... something tells me the majority of TCM's loyal fan base will have all gone nighty-night by then. Second, Mr. Zombie is in fact a filmmaker and a self-proclaimed film fanatic, so he's not a simply random choice as a host. Third, consider the line-up .... Mudhoney, Night of the Living Dead, Plan 9, Bride of the Monster ... these are certainly classics in their own right and are best hosted by someone like Rob Zombie, if not Elvira.


So, instead of blowing off the already loyal fans, it seems to me that TCM is embracing other people's deifnitions of "classic" and placing the series in a logical place. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that they've made an effort NOT to be traitorous to the loyals.

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"Yes, this latest even has me curious."


stoneyburke, do you mean a new October promo or the Zombie/Underground promo they've been showing for a week or two?


This is the odd thing--I really didn't love the September promo. It had to grow on me, like a fungus. Ha. But I think the Zombie promo is perfect to what he's planning to show. I'm pretty sure that's Zombie's music in the background, which was to be expected. Did anything think they were going to use some Glenn Miller or Frank Sinatra for TCM Underground promos?


The only image that really disturbs me is the quick clip where someone's shadow gets a knife in the mouth. Holymotherof...that really bothers me. Couldn't Raygun have found a better clip to insert? I'd rather see zombies eating someone's arm than the knife one, which gives me a headache and then a severe case of the heebie jeebies everytime I see it.


The other thing I've noticed--how everyone goes on and on about change and how TCM is changing for the worse--the next few months coming up have actual selections from people who did that programming challenge thing. There's a bunch of serials on Saturday mornings and a good number of movies. You can't say that TCM or the TCM programmer doesn't care about what people on the board want to see, because those were requests.


And am I the only one who's noticed that the ratio of Pre-code movies has gone up in conjunction to the more "modern" movies they've been showing. When I first started watching TCM, I noticed a lot of movies from the late 30's/40's and now, it seems like the majority of weekdays are pre-code marathons. Not that I'm complaining, but I remember people were begging for more pre-codes awhile back and presto--more precodes on the schedule!


The more "modern" movies during the weeknights really don't bother me. After all, it is the start of the fall tv season and TCM has to draw in viewers somehow. It's all about ratings! I'm not sure what an average day of TCM's ratings are like (although I'd be curious to know), I'm sure they need to meet an average mark. And really, is having "The Towering Inferno" scheduled for 3 hours on Tuesday night really going to disrupt so many lives?

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OK, I bow to your opinion, sugarpuss. I don't like the music, no, and did not know it was Mr. Zombie's stuff. I won't be listening to it for the next month, but I am one of many.


Yes, I found it very violent and sexual, and the knife in the mouth was particularly graphic. But hey, if everyone is able to accept this as part of TCM, who am I to complain.


Have the amount of pre-codes gone up? OK, again, I'll take your word for it, since I don't trust the other TCM-sycophants.


Again, I really, really, REALLLLLY don't care, since I have a boatload of movies taped and can turn off TCM tomorrow, but I DO object to those slavishly defending TCM for their new direction. No, I didn't expect TCM to have Sinatra pimping for Zombie's movies, but my point is that TCM shouldn't have had Zombie on their channel to begin with. They could have a TCM spinoff entitled TCM-Crap, and include all the knives in the throats and Zombie crap music they want.


Thanks, sugarpuss, for a very decent post.



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