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disgusted

TCM commercial

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I'm surprised at all the attention the woman in this spot is receiving. To me the spot is about the movies. I finally caught the spot on TCM quite a while after everyone was writing about it here, so was struck by what a minor factor the woman and her tattoo was (her tattoo seemed to be on screen about 1% of the entire spot). Surely any montage featuring Cocteau's La Belle et la Bete, Gloria Swanson's haunting image as Norma Desmond, Bergman's Seventh Seal and Eisenstein's Alexander Nevsky cannot be considered "pure junk".

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Well, music does have to have a meldoy, not just a rythm, and I hear no meldody in this whining and psuedo-screaming. It sounds like train wreck in slow motion to me. As far as saying it's as deserving to be called music as American folk songs, hymns, and operas etc....yikes, no I'd have to disagree ;) . And I think it was obvious I was only insulting the junk and didn't actually mean it wasn't music, just to clarify :)

 

At any rate, my point was simply the music doesn't go with TCM. If I was watching MTV or something like that, I'd expect it, but not on TCM. Does MTV ever play Bing Crosby? No? Then why should TCM play the sort of thing they play on MTV. I get enough of this kind of music when I go into the mall, watch commercials on every other channel, walk by the CD department in any store, or even just sitting at a stop light it pours over from the next car. I thought I could be safe from it on TCM.

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The spot should be about the movies, but when I saw this I couldn't see how in the world what they were showing had anything to do with classic movies. Yes, the tatoo and the woman (and especially the music) bother me because they don't go with the sort of people I want to see when I watch TCM. I do consider it pure junk because to me it was the equvalent of throwing mud on the Mona Lisa (the mud being EVERYTHING about the commercial except the shots of the movies, and the movies being the artwork).

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The song clearly has a melody, Polly. As a matter of fact, I'd say that Muse is far more accessible than any of the points of comparison I listed in my previous post (including Armenian, not American, folk songs). I mean, have you actually heard an Alban Berg opera? My point is that, just because a particular piece of music doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense to other people.

 

As far as whether or not it belongs on TCM: If TCM is showing movies that feature the rock/popular music of The Yardbirds ("Blowup"), Cat Stevens ("Harold and Maude"), and Nick Cave ("Wings Over Berlin"), why not use the music of a currently active rock band for a promo? After all, 70 years ago, when some of the movies TCM regularly shows were made, the jazz music that appears in them attracted the same kind of criticism that you're leveling at "Time Is Running Out." (No melody, too loud, etc.)

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I think also that there's some confusion about what a promo is supposed to do. They are to promote. Not mimic. Think of the commercials out there. Some of them, I could argue, have nothing to do with the product its selling. And yet, because the spot is so well produced, you can't help but A) be entertained, and B) remember the product being sold.

 

A crowd of hippies collected on a small hill doesn't automatically bring to mind "Coca-Cola." And yet, the makers of Coke created a classic commercial and sold untold numbers of soda when they claimed these hipsters "would like to buy the world a Coke, and keep it company." Or something like that.

 

Similarly, this Hate-it-or-love-it promo may not, on its face, say "CLASSIC MOVIES HERE! WE GOT 'EM! RIGHT HERE! DON'T LOOK ANYWHERE ELSE!" But it does promote TCM, and you certainly remember where you saw it. You may not like it, but then again, you may not like some of Coca-Cola's commercials. And yet you still drink Coke.

 

Gulp that one down.

 

I'm thirsty.

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the editing in this promo is cool..but the chic needs to go.....plus the only reason that they are using the band Muse is because they are huge now in the USA...if you want to buy a Muse Cd, buy the first one with the song Sunburn and go from there.....the commercial is done well but it doesnt really belong on TCM....I bet any amount of money that chics like that trendy looking idiot dont even watch TCM.....this is what happens when you get an MTV video directing moron to direct a promo on TCM....MTV morons and TCM dont mix....this is an exclusive club....we dont want you on our channell.....if I wanted to see ROb Zombie I would watch MTV, but I would rather kill myself....Keep him off the channell.....

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> I think also that there's some confusion about what a

> promo is supposed to do. They are to promote. Not

> mimic. Think of the commercials out there. Some of

> them, I could argue, have nothing to do with the

> product its selling. And yet, because the spot is so

> well produced, you can't help but A) be entertained,

> and B) remember the product being sold.

>

> A crowd of hippies collected on a small hill doesn't

> automatically bring to mind "Coca-Cola." And yet,

> the makers of Coke created a classic commercial and

> sold untold numbers of soda when they claimed these

> hipsters "would like to buy the world a Coke, and

> keep it company." Or something like that.

>

> Similarly, this Hate-it-or-love-it promo may not, on

> its face, say "CLASSIC MOVIES HERE! WE GOT 'EM!

> RIGHT HERE! DON'T LOOK ANYWHERE ELSE!" But it does

> promote TCM, and you certainly remember where you

> saw it. You may not like it, but then again, you

> may not like some of Coca-Cola's commercials. And

> yet you still drink Coke.

>

> Gulp that one down.

>

> I'm thirsty.

 

 

To me the promo doesn't promote anything. Yes I remember it's TCM but I don't know what they are promoting because it isn't clear. I don't associate a hard looking woman who just rolled out of bed with a man then prances around with a telescope then goes outside and pulls off her top - with anything TCM related. It would have been much better to have a woman dressed in (30's or 40's) period clothing, and period music reflecting the era of the golden age of Hollywood.

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"A crowd of hippies collected on a small hill doesn't automatically bring to mind "Coca-Cola.""

 

I was down in Costa Rica back in the mid-'80s, around Christmas time, and I happened to see the Central American version of this Coke ad. It was much better. It had a lot of clean-cut teens in it, all well dressed, coming down a hill. They looked like a bunch of kids that anyone would want to have as their own kids. As a matter of fact, all the kids I saw in San Jose, Costa Rica looked like that.

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Take the girl and the music out and replace it with just the movie scenes and a classical tune ....now that is what belongs on TCM...I will say it again...I bet that stupid chic's like her never even seen Casablanca or watch TCM.....TCM needs to get employees with the utmost respect for the classics and have a clue about what belongs on MTV and what belongs on TCM.....I hate MTV and the whole rock music crap on the radio today....it isnt punk music though alot of these bands like to call themselves punks...real punk music is not played on the radio or MTV.....and as far as some dude farther down in the thread saying that all punkrockers are disgusting or whatever he said...you better watch your tongue bud....I been a punk for 20 years and probably know more about the classic than you ever will......most people out there have no idea what real punk is or what real punkrockers look like...

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MovieGal53 - What 50s and 60s did you grow-up in?? Korea, Vietnam, Cuban Missile Crisis, Assassinations, Civil Rights, McCarthyism and the Red Scare, Cold War, Youth Movement, Drug Culture, Women's Rights, Housing Slump, DDT, The Great Society, Agent Orange, Environmentalism, Rock and Roll, and the near ruin of Hollywood.

 

I think seeing these films because they give you a feeling of nostalgia is great. Really. Everyone likes to be remembered of the happier times in their lives and every generation, alive or dead, has cursed the ones that follow, positive the world will end when they take over. I'm glad you still enjoy these films and I envy you being able to see them in theaters at their release.

 

Nostalgia, however, isn't what these films are about. Cinema reflects the values or the anti-values of a society. It explores narrative myth and the best cinema challenges us with thinking in new ways, or illuminating our shortcomings while extolling the best of our virtues. All film is political in nature whether it's the politics of sex, culture, society, or art. It's an interpersonal experience, like it or not, and these things don't go away when the last reel of a release is in the vault, never to see a theater again.

 

It's amazing but cinema is the ONE art form that fades from public view no matter how great it is. Top orchestras still perform Mozart, top operas still perform Mozart (heh), top museums still display Greek sculpture, top ballets still perform Nijinksy, great theaters still play Shakespeare, and the great stories of Homer are still read by readers.

 

Top movie theaters do not show old cinema. The youngest of the arts is the one with the most neglected and least accessible catalog and it's a tragedy. I know people who will not, absolutely refuse, to watch a film if it's in black and white, much less if it's silent. These same people might not usually visit a museum or read a classic novel, but they will recognize the importance of such works for their universal value in helping humankind understand itself and our place in society, our meaning of life, our religion.

 

Doesn't cinema do the same thing?

 

What you are watching, via these promotionals, is the backlash from the prevailing cultural attitude that film can't be great, that it's all about what's now, what's hip, and it's all commercialized brain candy in the end. If all these old films you love, we love, we recognize as great works, are to survive at all, not just these last 120 years, then we have to educate the average film watcher about the value of these films. By no means am I suggesting we dumb-down. Great art never dumbs down, it uplifts. What we must do is challenge the popular meme that old cinema doesn't matter, doesn't have anything to say about life today, nothing to teach us. The raygun promos do this remarkably well. They reach out to us, to today's audience and educates them, using the language of today's audience, using contemporary themes and images to create a new language of cinema. Raygun's promos bring these films into the here and now. I said before that raygun deconstructs the films for us to consider them in a new way, a new context. This is the reason they do that. It's the reason companies like Criterion and Janus exist, it's the reason there are still theaters that show the great films.

 

We will never have a museum that can show cinema as it was meant to be seen in any effective, broad format. Sure museums can act as film libraries, but a library is not a museum. The nature of the medium makes this impossible. People have to welcome these films into their homes, schools need to show them as part of art history courses, and people have to be educated about the value of choosing Grand Illusion over The Water Boy when they visit the video store (if they can even find Grand Illusion as a choice). DVD grew faster than CD and today DVDs outsell CDs. While this has shocked the music industry, it means that people are beginning to get the message that great film isn't just what was made in the last 20 years.

 

Great film also takes great risks. Again, nostalgia is nice and comforting, but time moves on and great art moves with it. Be envious if you want, it's ok. The best cinema will still be stunning and fresh and new long after we're all old, wrinkled, and dead. It will always be contemporary even if we aren't. Don't be too upset when younger generations appropriate, explore, reassess, and reinterpret it in ways you don't like. It's a sign that cinema is alive and well, challenging, thrilling, amazing new audiences; telling our stories from our times. In this, we can live on long after we're gone.

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"The song clearly has a melody, Polly. As a matter of fact, I'd say that Muse is far more accessible than any of the points of comparison I listed in my previous post (including Armenian, not American, folk songs). I mean, have you actually heard an Alban Berg opera? My point is that, just because a particular piece of music doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense to other people.

 

As far as whether or not it belongs on TCM: If TCM is showing movies that feature the rock/popular music of The Yardbirds ("Blowup"), Cat Stevens ("Harold and Maude"), and Nick Cave ("Wings Over Berlin"), why not use the music of a currently active rock band for a promo? After all, 70 years ago, when some of the movies TCM regularly shows were made, the jazz music that appears in them attracted the same kind of criticism that you're leveling at "Time Is Running Out." (No melody, too loud, etc.) "

 

First off, I've heard just about ever type of music there is having studied it for years, historically and technically (Berg did "Lulu" for one, I believe). My dear, it makes perfect sense to me. I understand it completely. I also understand Communism. Just because I think something is worthless doesn't automatically mean I also don't understand it :) . If others chose to "get it" and accept it, that's fine. I don't, though. (I assume by saying it doesn't make sense to me you meant that I couldn't wrap my brain around it and the artistry in it--in other words, I didn't understand it. But you very well may have just meant that it just doesn't make sense to me, after considering the different aspects of the commercial, to put it on TCM. In the latter case, you'd be absolutely correct.)

 

Lately I've noticed several movies I feel have no place on a Classic movie channel (the 70's and 80's aren't classics in my book). They should stick with things from the silent era to the 60's (and only movies from that 60's, and some of the 70's, that feature stars that were big stars before then, imho :) ). If the type of music appears in the movie, even if I should hate it, then it should be played with the movie promotion. No music of this sort appears in any of the movies it was advertising, no do I see that it represents it, so I don't feel it's appropriate. If you're advertising a western, play western music; if you're advertising Thunder Road, play The Ballad of Thunder Road; if you're playing Ocean's 11, play Ain't That a Kick in the Head, etc..

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I'm wondering how many people who have seen the promo in question have also watched any of the films in the Janus Films salute this month?

 

 

I ask this because I think the promo is creatively tied to the Janus salute.

 

So, thus:

 

Do you like the promo and the films in the Janus salute?

 

or

 

Do you dislike the promo and avoid the Janus films?

 

or

 

Do you dislike the promo and like the Janus films?

 

or

 

Do you like the promo but avoid the Janus films?

 

Just trying to get a consensus.

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This thread has had almost 3,500 views and is edging towards 200 replies. Certainly any promo that elicits this kind of passion is doing its job. That said, here's my stand for your poll, Lynn:

 

I love the promo and I love the Janus salute.

 

Thank you TCM for all of the above.

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Lately I've noticed several movies I feel have no place on a Classic movie channel (the 70's and 80's aren't classics in my book).

 

A big word to this, PollythePistol. That's what some of us have been saying for awhile now. However, time marches on, yada yada, and those of us who want TCM to remain the excellent niche station it was can just get over it.

 

As I've said, I think the promo, as a standalone music video, is outstanding.

 

As to the poll, I loved the promo and have long admired Janus films.

 

dolores

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I didn?t care much for the promo, but I watched some of the Janus films. I?ve been watching them for years because they are usually pretty good foreign films.

 

My favorite types of promos are ones that use only scenes from the films.

 

For example, the ?Double Indemnity? promo of a month or so ago was excellent. So was the promo for ?The Third Man?.

 

If I want to watch a modern hip chick with a tattoo who looks like she?s stoned on drugs, I?ll switch over to MTV or some of the stupid goth/punk music channels.

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Fred, I'm reallllly interested in hearing more about your opinion on this. And yes, I love the fact that we all are giving an ENORmous amount of publicity to it....and hello folks, you do realize we the audience are being manipulated just a wee bit by TCM while we do this? It's akin to what Hollyweird does when it poses something outrageous in the vein of: any publicity is good publicity. Well, we are now party to TCM in this.

 

But Fred, I've long read your excellent posts and seen the images you've shared. I admire your expertise and the fact that you were present for SO many historical events in America's pictorial history.

 

So, and I am the first to admit that I am NOT the most open-minded of individuals here, I am very curious to hear why you don't like the promo? Are you against it in and of itself? As a video, I mean? Is it not well produced? Do you not like the music?

 

I agree that it is NOT an example of what I WANT TCM to BE....emphasis on WANT. However, you see the conundrum? The TCM I WANT is no more. TCM has moved on, and taken us with it. They now show crap from the 1970s on forward. And we the audience can either like it or lump it.

 

That said, don't you think the video is a perfect illustration of this? New music, new photographic techniques...although The Smothers Brothers Show utilized this same erratic imaging (I forget the artist) thirty years ago so what is old is new...cool people, sex, graphic ideas, with it people....this is the NEW and improved TCM. It's the Nip/Tuck 'classic movie' channel.

 

MTV began this assault on our senses, but it was soon accepted and overutilized by Madison Avenue and Hollywood alike. Hand held cameras, quick cutting video in soooo many of today's commercials, it's enough to give the usual audience member a migraine.

 

Long story short, I'm interested in what you, a professional in the field, find objectionable.

 

Thanks.

 

dolores

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Dammit, so we're into Day Two.

 

Fred, my golden words will be buried, as will my burning question, so I'll have to make a pest of myself to stay on top of this thread.

 

Now I know how an orange peel feels at the bottom of a dumpster.

 

dolores

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"So, and I am the first to admit that I am NOT the most open-minded of individuals here, I am very curious to hear why you don't like the promo? Are you against it in and of itself? As a video, I mean? Is it not well produced? Do you not like the music?"

 

I think it is well produced..... for MTV.

 

But do we want a bunch of punks and goths showing up here on the TCM message board? Remember when we had a bunch of rude teen kids show up here when TCM ran some anime movies a few months ago? Do these types of people actually have enough money to subscribe to cable or satellite TV services? Are they going to spend a lot of money buying DVDs of classic B&W films from TCM? I doubt it.

 

I've been supporting TCM for years by paying for it. My sat bill is now almost $50 a month. I don't want to see this modern tattooed-chick type stuff in the promos.

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Ah, understood Fred, thanks for clarifying.

 

One of the features of this board is its open access. I am not adverse to the punks and goths, but the mentally ill individuals of late are another matter. Since I am adverse to moderation, I accept all of these people with the understanding that we the members have to be self policing. This is preferable, imo, to the Gestapo censoring methods of other boards.

 

As to the video appealing to punks and goths, I (surprisingly, even to myself) find myself quite enamored of the piece. I think it was Chuck Braverman, Fred, who used these types of quick cut images in the Smothers Brothers Show? I can't remember, obviously.

 

So I am the first to say that I have an open mind to punks and goths coming on here, IF they have manners. One of them already said to another member: 'watch your mouth' so that's a matter of rudeness, not the fact that they are punk. As we have all seen, some downright ugly rudeness has overwhelmed our board lately.

 

As to MTV, as I've noted, I think it was only an opportunistic purveyor of the prevailing culture, as is any television station. TCM saw a need and jumped on it at a time when niche stations enjoyed a place in the sun.

 

Now, it is reality programming that is, somehow, mindnumbingly popular.

 

So if TCM is straying away from its original intent, yes, we have to call it on that. And I have been one of the most vociferous of the complainants, back when they programmed the anime crap. But as I've been told again and again, they have to move on, so I'd better like it or change the channel.

 

As to paying for it and expecting return for my/your money???? This applies to every last damned thing in the world today, imo. I don't get justifiable return for my cable, internet, electric, gasoline, phone, clothing, food, automobile, mortgage, tax, medical.....well, you get the idea. As someone who grew up in the 1950s, I don't feel I am getting my money's worth for ANYTHING today. However, again, like it or lump it.

 

The ONLY item where I am getting a good return for my money is my dog. He gives me slobbering, unconditional love all day, every day for simply food and shelter. You can't beat that at twice the price. :)

 

dolores

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I like the promo (don't LOVE it, but like it) and I think the Janus films salute is great. I'm looking forward to watching many of the films.

 

The Robert Montgomery/Hiyao Miyazaki month promo was one of the best promos, IMO. (Although I wasn't into the anime films.) The melding of the images and the color washes was gorgeous.

 

Sandy K

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> For the poll:

> I dislike the promo, I am not watching Janus films,

> they do not look interesting to me.

 

You really should look in on at least one or two. In my youth, our "educational" station, Channel 13 (there was no PBS then), used to show Janus films on the weekend, and I saw some really amazing things I never knew about before. "Beauty and the Beast" for example, is a remarkable movie - it's extremely "artsy" and artificial looking, but it is also beautiful (even in black and white), interesting, and magical, as a fairy tale should be. We so rarely get to see foreign classics any more, we should grab whatever chance we can get. Even if you don't like any of them, it will be instructive to see some of the movies that cinephiles love to talk about.

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"I assume by saying it doesn't make sense to me you meant that I couldn't wrap my brain around it and the artistry in it--in other words, I didn't understand it. But you very well may have just meant that it just doesn't make sense to me, after considering the different aspects of the commercial, to put it on TCM. In the latter case, you'd be absolutely correct."

 

Polly,

 

Actually, I didn't mean either. By not making "sense" to you, I mean that you clearly aren't able to engage with it -- for whatever reason. (You don't "dig" it, so to speak, because you don't find it congenial.) What I was objecting to was what I thought to be your fairly sweeping dismissal of it as being non-music simply because you didn't like it or couldn't bring yourself to engage with it. For the record, there are plenty of musical genres I can't engage with -- hip-hop being one -- but I try not to dismiss it as not being music.

 

If your main objection is that the music doesn't belong because it has nothing directly to do with the film clips being shown in the promo, then that's an entirely different matter, and I probably agree with you. The entire promo certainly is anachronistic. In fact, my first post in this thread was a complaint about the vagueness and conceptual sloppiness of the promo, even though I still think that the decontextualization of existing art and its juxtaposition with other media can be very interesting. The beauty of the Janus films (Seventh Seal, Ashes and Diamonds, Orpheus, etc.) still shine through and it reminds me just how beautiful they are as individual images. In that sense, I think these sorts of promos are worthwhile.

 

As to whether or not TCM should show films from the 1960s and later that use rock music, I guess that's an old chestnut that people on this forum will never agree on. I, however, am grateful that TCM shows a movie like "Blowup," which is a masterpiece/classic from the 1960s even though it doesn't feature any stars who were established before that decade and even though it includes a scene with a then-current rock band (The Yardbirds) breaking their guitars. Who else but TCM would show that film uncut and its correct aspect ratio?

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"My favorite types of promos are ones that use only scenes from the films."

 

I think Fred is exactly right here. My main problem with the promo is that there's no real link between the framing story (the girl with the telescope) and the films that TCM is showing this month.

 

Oh, and to answer the poll, I neither like nor dislike the promo. It could be better, but it doesn't offend me. But I love the films in the Janus festival and am rewatching those that I haven't seen in a while (or don't own on DVD). How could anyone who loves movies not be watching them? Eisenstein's and Cocteau's work, for example, is deliriously cinematic and beautiful.

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Sandy,

I found myself enjoying that Robert Montgomery/Hiyao Miyazaki promo very much as well. I don't find many anime films to be engaging, but after viewing Spirited Away(2001), I found it quite beautiful, and loved the quietly realistic Whisper of the Heart(1995), written by Miyazaki and produced through his studio. The latter film was really enchanting, interlacing the fantasy with tranquil observation of the daily details of a teenage girl's life and psyche. Despite this, much of anime remains uninteresting to me, though I'm more open to it than before.

 

My favorite TCM commercial promoting a star of the month and featured films was last Fall when they did one of their most beautiful spots, centering on Myrna Loy---it was beautifully edited, awash in sepia colors, and featured music that was haunting and yet--me, with my ol' sieve brain, cannot recall exactly what tune they played or who sang it, (of course, I'm one of those pop song dimwits who never knows who sings what). Perhaps a more astute ear can recall this for me?

 

For the record, I'm hoping that TCM will give the tattoos and skin a rest, though I realize that their corporation, like all the rest, is constantly under pressure to court the desirable demographic that allegedly loves that stuff. Of course, it's probably not a bad thing to keep a diverse bunch--of all ages and tastes, coming to your little channel.

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