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Sheldon

AFI Best Musicals List.

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Any thoughts on this? The list came out today. Many wonderful choices, but..."Grease" and " Moulon Rouge?"?? I believe the R & H musicals were ignored as was one of my personal favorites"The Pirate." Any thoughts?

Check the list of 25 at CNN.

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Here was the ballot of 180 to choose from:

 

http://www.afi.com/docs/tvevents/pdf/musicals_ballot.pdf

 

Just for fun, why don't we each submit our 25 favorites. Here are mine, in alphabetical order:

 

Cabaret

42nd Street

Gigi (not on AFI's list!)

Gold Diggers of 1933 (not on AFI's list)

The King and I

Mary Poppins

Meet Me in St. Louis

The Music Man (not on AFI's list)

My Fair Lady

Oklahoma! (not on AFI's list)

Oliver! (not on AFI's list)

On the Town

The Rocky Horror Picture Show (not on AFI's list)

Seven Brides for Seven Brothers

Show Boat (1951 instead of 1936)

Singin' in the Rain

The Sound of Music

A Star is Born

Swing Time (not on AFI's list)

Top Hat

Victor/Victoria (not on AFI's list)

West Side Story

White Christmas (not on AFI's list)

The Wizard of Oz

Yankee Doodle Dandy

 

And though AFI included Beauty and the Beast (1991) in their top 25, I'd have put either Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937), The Jungle Book (1967), The Little Mermaid (1989) or The Lion King (1994) on mine.

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Here are the AFI TOP 25:

 

25. Moulin Rouge (2001)

24. Show Boat (1936)

23. Guys and Dolls (1955)

22. Beauty and the Beast (1991)

21. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers (1954)

20. Grease (1978)

19. On the Town (1949)

18. Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942)

17. The Band Wagon (1953)

16. Funny Girl (1968)

15. Top Hat (1935)

14. All That Jazz (1979)

13. 42nd Street (1933)

12. Chicago (2002)

11. The King and I (1956)

10. Meet Me in St. Louis (1944)

9. An American in Paris (1951)

8. My Fair Lady (1964)

7. A Star is Born (1954)

6. Mary Poppins (1964)

5. Cabaret (1972)

4. The Sound of Music (1965)

3. The Wizard of Oz (1939)

2. West Side Story (1961)

1. Singin' in the Rain (1952)

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Here's my strange but extremely personal list. I trasure all these musicals. In no particular order-it's just too difficult!

Yolanda and the Thief

The Harvey Girls

Calamity Jane

Singin' in the Rain

A Star is Born-Garland

The Wizard of Oz

The Belle of New York

The Pirate

The Music Man

Oklahoma!

Carousel

The King and I

Meet Me in St. Louis

It's Always Fair Weather

Silk Stockings

Gigi

Mr. Imperium

Summer Stock

Girl Crazy

The Band Wagon

Ziegfeld Follies

Broadway Melody of 1940

The Pajama Game

Damn Yankees

Romance on the High Seas

Thanks for reading this list! I love all these films for various reasons !!

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It was a selfish act, path40. I wanted to know what the AFI had chosen, and it seemed appropriate that a thread entitled AFI Best Musicals List should feature it. I tried accessing it from CNN with no luck, and tried some more with the AFI site with the same result. Once I found it, I thought I'd best post it here for future reference (if only for my own).

 

In the meantime, I haven't ignored your request for our own lists. But it's taking some time and effort. I have managed a list of about 50 that I'm winnowing down now.

 

Part of the problem is that I keep running into this paradox: my favorite musical scenes do not come from my favorite musicals. For instance, I immediately think of the sublime "Begin the Beguine" number from Broadway Melody of 1940 This is definitely one of my top 10 favorite movie musical moments, but the film as a whole wouldn't make the top 50. Hopefully I'll post it here eventually...

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I know what you mean, Jack. In all fairness, MY top 25 were my immediate emotional response , even though I know in my heart of hearts, many of my choices shouldn't make the 25 best FILMS. But what the hell!

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An American in Paris

The Band Wagon

Beauty and the Beast

Cabaret

Fiddler on the Roof

Funny Girl

For Me and My Gal

The Gangs All Here

Gentlemen Prefer Blondes

Gigi

Girl Crazy

Gold Diggers of 1933

Hedwig and the Angry Inch

King and I

Kiss Me Kate (3-D!)

Meet Me in St. Louis

Pennies From Heaven

Oklahoma

Orchestra Wives

The Red Shoes

A Star Is Born (1954)

Singin' in the Rain

Top Hat

Victor/Victoria

The Wizard of Oz

 

There are so many that I either haven't seen, or it's been so long since I've seen them that memory doesn't serve... I wonder if they'd be on the list above. Movies like: Show Boat (1936), Love Me Tonight, Louise or One Night of Love, Evergreen...

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My top 25 in alphabetical order:

 

AN AMERICAN IN PARIS

ANCHORS AWEIGH

BABES IN ARMS

BIG BROADCAST OF 1938

BROADWAY MELODY OF 1940

FLYING DOWN TO RIO

THE GANG'S ALL HERE

GIGI

THE GIRL CAN'T HELP IT

GOLDDIGGERS OF 1933

GREASE

A HARD DAY'S NIGHT

HEDWIG AND THE ANGRY INCH

JAILHOUSE ROCK

MARY POPPINS

OLIVER

ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW

SHOWBOAT (1936)

SINGING IN THE RAIN

SOUND OF MUSIC

SUMMER STOCK

TOP HAT

WILLY WONKA AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY

WIZARD OF OZ

YANKEE DOODLE DANDY

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Thanks, guys, for confirming that I am not the only film fan who disagrees with the AFI list of Top 25 musicals.

 

I was at the Hollywood Bowl last Sunday, when John Mauceri and the orchestra unveiled the AFI choices... and I'd say they got the Number One musical (Singin' in the Rain) absolutely right. But the other 24, are absolutely WRONG!

 

Does ANYBODY agree that West Side Story (1961) was the second best musical in film history? I would have chosen any of a dozen others. But of course that's just my opinion. Of the Top 25, though, it is CRIMINAL that the AFI would neglect the following three great musicals:

 

Gigi (1958)

Kiss Me Kate (1953)

The Music Man (1962)

 

That's right, none of these great films was even on the list.

 

At one point in the evening, the failings of the AFI list was made obvious when Mauceri paused, turned towards the audience, and breathlessly proclaimed that the film he was about to introduce was -- and I quote -- "the greatest musical of the first half of the 20th century." What do you think it was?

 

Show Boat (1936). It came in at Number 24 on the AFI list. But then, the maestro proceeded to contradict his own words, when SIX pre-1950 musicals went on to make the list, ahead of Show Boat! What's THAT all about?

 

Fred Astaire was represented in two musicals, Number 15 Top Hat (1935) and Number 17 The Band Wagon (1953). But in truth, they deserved much higher rankings than that.

 

In all, the AFI's list was as subjective as the annual Oscar awards are. Politics rule the day here. Of particular notice was the fact that Judy Garland was represented in THREE (3) of the TOP TEN films, and her daughter Liza Minnelli was represented in another of the Top Ten. What greater proof can there be, of Judy Garland bias?

 

Yes, the woman could sing. But those rankings? Bogus. Let's have more Astaire-Rogers. More Busby Berkeley. And to leave The Music Man off the list entirely is, in my humble op, criminal.

 

Dan N.

 

http://www.silentfilmguide.com

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I don't know if it's political so much as ill-informed. Frankly, I never pay attention to these AFI lists. It was my understanding that anyone can vote; and I would imagine that many who are voting don't have the background to know what the top 25 musicals are. I'm a big fan of musicals, yet I don't consider myself qualified to make that decision.

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Just curious, where was Oklahoma on that list? Every time a revival of it comes out from Broadway to summer stock, to college campuses, its a sellout. Where can I see the list from AFI?

 

Anne

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Thanks, Jack:

 

I can't believe 'Oklahoma' is not on that list!

 

Why have you lately been referring to me as Mr. L? It's unnerving, unless you have some reason for it.

 

One question. My computer is acting idiotic again, when I go into General Discussions here, the main listing shows Sept. 10, 2006, but when I go into it, on the actual pages, I'm 'back in time' to June, 2006. Anything like this ever happen to anyone else? At first I was reading about the colors changing, from blue to greenish and brown, but that's what my colors have always been. BTW, I checked to make sure I was on page 1, and I was.

 

Anne

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Yes, the AFI list is odd. I believe every list that the AFI has published has been odd. This is why I pay so little attention to them; I find them to be meaningless.

 

There is a poster that is going through and deleting all of his old posts today. Whenever someone goes into an old message and makes an edit, it shows the new date on the TCM Message Board home page. But it doesn't update the date within the messages.

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I agree that the list is a little odd. I don't think Grease belongs on the list at all. I think that many of the songs are catchy and the film itself is "cute" but I wouldn't consider it a musical masterpiece. It is too simplistic. Though many musicals on the list are simplistic, they were groundbreaking in some way.

 

A movie like Meet Me In St.Louis is simplistic, yet a masterpiece. Anyone who knows anything about the history of Hollywood musicals knows that MMSL was different from many musicals that came before it. In most musicals that came before it, the story lines consisted of wannabe performers and the only songs that were included in the film were ones that the characters were putting on in a fictional show. But there were no aspiring singers in MMSL, the songs were used to tell the story.

 

I think that Moulin Rouge, while not one of the most amazing scores of all time, did help in bringing back the musical to an age where they are very much shunned.

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Ok, this list is okay, but insane at the same time. I agree that Singin' in the Rain is a WONDERFUL musical but I see it as my 3rd favorite.

TOP 3 [in order]

1. The Sound of Music

2. West Side Story [as it is #2 on the list]

3. Singin' in the Rain.

 

I think that An American in Paris should have been higher up, but I think that Oz is wayyy to overrated and TSoM is so much better than it.

 

All in my opinion, of course.

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Okay, Grease does not belong on this list. If we're talking the top 100 movie musicals, then okay, maybe...at number 99. I also don't think Cabaret is a #5 choice. All That Jazz and Chicago are wrong for this list too. Where is Gigi, The Music Man, Anchors Aweigh, The Great Ziegfeld, Hello Dolly!, This Is The Army, Bathing Beauty...I could go on, but won't working from the AFI list without changing a thing I'd have to go with the following changes (see below) the first set is their list. The second is my revamp.

 

25. Moulin Rouge (2001)

24. Show Boat (1936)

23. Guys and Dolls (1955)

22. Beauty and the Beast (1991)

21. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers (1954)

20. Grease (1978)

19. On the Town (1949)

18. Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942)

17. The Band Wagon (1953)

16. Funny Girl (1968)

15. Top Hat (1935)

14. All That Jazz (1979)

13. 42nd Street (1933)

12. Chicago (2002)

11. The King and I (1956)

10. Meet Me in St. Louis (1944)

9. An American in Paris (1951)

8. My Fair Lady (1964)

7. A Star is Born (1954)

6. Mary Poppins (1964)

5. Cabaret (1972)

4. The Sound of Music (1965)

3. The Wizard of Oz (1939)

2. West Side Story (1961)

1. Singin' in the Rain (1952)

 

 

25. Chicago (2002)

24. Grease (1978)

23. All That Jazz (1979)

22. Cabaret (1972)

21. Show Boat (1936)

20. Beauty and the Beast (1991)

19. Moulin Rouge (2001)

18. On the Town (1949)

17. Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942)

16. The Band Wagon (1953)

15. Funny Girl (1968)

14. Top Hat (1935)

13. 42nd Street (1933)

12. Guys and Dolls (1955)

11. Mary Poppins (1964)

10. The King and I (1956)

9. Meet Me in St. Louis (1944)

8. An American in Paris (1951)

7. My Fair Lady (1964)

6. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers (1954)

5. A Star Is Born (1954)

4. The Sound of Music (1965)

3. The Wizard of Oz (1939)

2. West Side Story (1961)

1. Singin' in the Rain (1952)

 

Message was edited by:

NZ

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I'd have to go with the following changes (see below) the first set is their list. The second is my revamp.

 

Decent list(s), but where are "Flying Down to Rio" and "Dames"?????

And almost all the rest of the similar early WB musicals?

No Nelson/Jeanette?

"Chacun a son gout," I guess. (Sorry about the missing French diacritical markings!)

 

Bill

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I find all those AFI lists to be counter to everything they should represent. Imagine saying one film is better than another. It's okay if you and I do that, but the AFI should represent all film as something great. It's stupid, I think.

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Don't see what is stupid about making lists that try to sum up all the best examples of particular genres or best of all time or what have you. B-)

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