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Psychological Shoot-em Ups!


CaveGirl
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While watching some westerns recently I got to thinking about the ones which delve more into character and deeper issues, like "One-Eyed Jacks" and the like.

 

I like both the typical genre types and also the westerns with a bit more insights into human nature like last night's "The Naked Spur".

 

Which do you prefer or are you fans of both types?

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As there are, in many genres, movies of both the nature you speak of, I'd say it's more a matter of "depends on the movie".

 

Some might provide an excellent presentation of one type and another attempting same just insults the tastebuds.

 

In thinking of this, I realized many westerns( as you introduced this all speaking of westerns) offer the introspection of human nature, while also providing a good story.

 

There ARE movies that get so involved in trying to convey some "message" or DELVE as you say, into the human nature that the STORY gets muddled and lost in the shuffle.

 

To ME, some of the westerns that provide BOTH and are among my favorits are---

 

SHANE

 

THE COWBOYS

 

NEVADA SMITH

 

THE SEARCHERS

 

THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE

 

THE WILD BUNCH

 

THE CULPEPPER CATTLE COMPANY

 

And of course, the ones YOU opened this discussion with.

 

Sepiatone

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I prefer the later westerns where they good guys and the bad guys aren't as black or white and also looks at the causes for why things turn out the way they did.

 

Some of these started in the 40s.

 

but some of my favourites not yet included:

 

The Professionals

Once Upon a Time in the West

3:10 To Yuma

The Magnificent Seven

The Fastest Gun Alive

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Two psychological ones I like:

 

"Ride in the Whirlwind" & "The Shooting"--imdb and wikipedia both have 1967 for the release dates, so I'll go with them.  TCM has 1972 for the release date, for some reason.  Monte Hellman directed both.

 

Westerns that are both I enjoyed:

 

"Fort Apache" (1948)

 

"Sergeant Rutledge" (1960)

 

"Cheyenne Autumn" (1964)

 

"The Unforgiven" (1960)--John Huston's attempt at a "message" western mixed with a traditional "Indians on the warpath" movie.  Audrey Hepburn is very good and Looks the part as a suspected(?) Kiowa--her cheekbones and facial structure work for her, IMHO.

 

A traditional one--"How the West Was Won" (1963)--Great cast and Wonderful score!

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The "genre types" hold nothing for me, even those with pretty good casts. Like yesterday (or the day before) with Robert Ryan, etc. I couldn't get through them. I would like a muzzle put on Gabby (we can search for a new nickname). Gosh, amazing that folks in those old pioneer town looked so clean and with such immaculate clothes. And the women with those gorgeous hair styles. Ah, but never mind that, such is the movies. If you love Westerns all of the above does not matter. I like Westerns a lot but none of those programmer ones. Has anyone seen The Ballad of Gregorio Cortez ? Off the beaten track, I would say, and fairly recent. How about Monte Walsh ? My favorite Western is Warlock.

 

==

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I couldn't believe Johnny Guitar when I first (tried) to see it. I was on the floor laughing. I couldn't believe how bad it was. It reads like a hokey satire. Maybe it is. If so, it might be a brilliant movie. If not, I am astonished that Nicholas Ray could ever have anything to do it.

 

Maybe Gabby and Co. are not so bad after all.

 

:P

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I'll second the mention of Warlock, which also has great cinematography by Joseph MacDonald. Others I like include:

 

Hombre

These Thousand Hills

The Hanging Tree

They Came to Cordura

Seven Men from Now

Man of the West

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The "genre types" hold nothing for me, even those with pretty good casts. Like yesterday (or the day before) with Robert Ryan, etc. I couldn't get through them. I would like a muzzle put on Gabby (we can search for a new nickname). Gosh, amazing that folks in those old pioneer town looked so clean and with such immaculate clothes. And the women with those gorgeous hair styles. Ah, but never mind that, such is the movies. If you love Westerns all of the above does not matter. I like Westerns a lot but none of those programmer ones. Has anyone seen The Ballad of Gregorio Cortez ? Off the beaten track, I would say, and fairly recent. How about Monte Walsh ? My favorite Western is Warlock.

 

==

Thems Fighting Words about Robert Ryan...

;)

 

I will watch everything he is in.

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I'll second the mention of Warlock, which also has great cinematography by Joseph MacDonald. Others I like include:

 

Hombre

These Thousand Hills

The Hanging Tree

They Came to Cordura

Seven Men from Now

Man of the West

I know it will sound like treason against my love of Richard Widmark, Deforest Kelley, Anthony Quinn and Henry Fonda, but:

 

I'm not a big fan of Warlock.

 

I do love the scene where Deforest Kelley calls out Fonda and Fonda gets to his gun first.

 

Those guys all made several films together and were great friends.

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As there are, in many genres, movies of both the nature you speak of, I'd say it's more a matter of "depends on the movie".

 

Some might provide an excellent presentation of one type and another attempting same just insults the tastebuds.

 

In thinking of this, I realized many westerns( as you introduced this all speaking of westerns) offer the introspection of human nature, while also providing a good story.

 

There ARE movies that get so involved in trying to convey some "message" or DELVE as you say, into the human nature that the STORY gets muddled and lost in the shuffle.

 

To ME, some of the westerns that provide BOTH and are among my favorits are---

 

SHANE

 

THE COWBOYS

 

NEVADA SMITH

 

THE SEARCHERS

 

THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE

 

THE WILD BUNCH

 

THE CULPEPPER CATTLE COMPANY

 

And of course, the ones YOU opened this discussion with.

 

Sepiatone

A very fine list, Sepia!

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Two psychological ones I like:

 

"Ride in the Whirlwind" & "The Shooting"--imdb and wikipedia both have 1967 for the release dates, so I'll go with them.  TCM has 1972 for the release date, for some reason.  Monte Hellman directed both.

 

Westerns that are both I enjoyed:

 

"Fort Apache" (1948)

 

"Sergeant Rutledge" (1960)

 

"Cheyenne Autumn" (1964)

 

"The Unforgiven" (1960)--John Huston's attempt at a "message" western mixed with a traditional "Indians on the warpath" movie.  Audrey Hepburn is very good and Looks the part as a suspected(?) Kiowa--her cheekbones and facial structure work for her, IMHO.

 

A traditional one--"How the West Was Won" (1963)--Great cast and Wonderful score!

All good ones and I dig Monte Hellman flicks, FL!

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A (fairly) recent example would be The Proposition, an excellent Australian western starring Guy Pearce, Ray Winstone, Danny Huston and Emily Watson. 

I've not seen that, Lawrence but due to the respect I have for your opinion and film savvy, I shall definitely look for it!

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The "genre types" hold nothing for me, even those with pretty good casts. Like yesterday (or the day before) with Robert Ryan, etc. I couldn't get through them. I would like a muzzle put on Gabby (we can search for a new nickname). Gosh, amazing that folks in those old pioneer town looked so clean and with such immaculate clothes. And the women with those gorgeous hair styles. Ah, but never mind that, such is the movies. If you love Westerns all of the above does not matter. I like Westerns a lot but none of those programmer ones. Has anyone seen The Ballad of Gregorio Cortez ? Off the beaten track, I would say, and fairly recent. How about Monte Walsh ? My favorite Western is Warlock.

 

==

Warlock!

 

Great choice, Laffite.

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Oh, I think ol' Siggy Freud just might have found a few things to diagnose in THIS western filmed right here in Sedona AZ...

 

johnny_guitar.jpg

Well, you've done it again, Pardner!

 

Took the title right out of my mouth. That scene with the flaming Mercedes is so rad!

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I'll second the mention of Warlock, which also has great cinematography by Joseph MacDonald. Others I like include:

 

Hombre

These Thousand Hills

The Hanging Tree

They Came to Cordura

Seven Men from Now

Man of the West

Was just reading about "Seven Men from Now" in my Western encyclopedia book last nite, Kingrat!

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The "genre types" hold nothing for me, even those with pretty good casts. Like yesterday (or the day before) with Robert Ryan, etc. I couldn't get through them. I would like a muzzle put on Gabby (we can search for a new nickname). Gosh, amazing that folks in those old pioneer town looked so clean and with such immaculate clothes. And the women with those gorgeous hair styles. Ah, but never mind that, such is the movies. If you love Westerns all of the above does not matter. I like Westerns a lot but none of those programmer ones. Has anyone seen The Ballad of Gregorio Cortez ? Off the beaten track, I would say, and fairly recent. How about Monte Walsh ? My favorite Western is Warlock.

 

==

You want a muzzle on Gabby?

 

I never did watch a lot of westerns when I was younger.

 

If I watched them it was because I was a fan of the stars (eg. Greg Peck made over 50% of his movies in the combined output of war films and westerns.

 

Then the internet age took over to the point where you often see people on cell phones in films.

And I decided to watch westerns in general regardless of the era or the stars because I was tired of internet being part of the plot.

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You want a muzzle on Gabby?

 

I never did watch a lot of westerns when I was younger.

 

If I watched them it was because I was a fan of the stars (eg. Greg Peck made over 50% of his movies in the combined output of war films and westerns.

 

Then the internet age took over to the point where you often see people on cell phones in films.

And I decided to watch westerns in general regardless of the era or the stars because I was tired of internet being part of the plot.

 

George Gabby Hayes doesn't seem to do much for me. He is supposed to be amusing and he does all right as far as it goes but he is not really a funny guy. He is so boring, which is part of the idea I guess, but it all wears thin because he is given so much screen time. Someone more to my liking in this vein would be Edgar Buchanan (for one) and Walter Brennan (for another), who both have IMO an innate talent for what they are doing.

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George Gabby Hayes doesn't seem to do much for me. He is supposed to be amusing and he does all right as far as it goes but he is not really a funny guy. He is so boring, which is part of the idea I guess, but it all wears thin because he is given so much screen time. Someone more to my liking in this vein would be Edgar Buchanan (for one) and Walter Brennan (for another), who both have IMO an innate talent for what they are doing.

 

I love Walter Brennan in everything he did.

 

I like Edgar Buchanan too.

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